Anyone had any luck with these in South Florida?

[BPK Palm Addict]

I live in the Florida Keys and was wondering if anyone has had any luck with the following palms in South Florida? I have some small 1 and 5 gallon plants and a somewhat shady back yard. I would be thankful for any advice on sun/shade, amended soil or anything that might help me be successful with any of these beauties.

Kerriodoxa elegans

Dypsis sp. (Pink Crownshaft)

Actinokentia divaricata

Areca macrocalyx pink form (Pink Lady)

Licuala peltata var. sumawongii

Johannesteijsmannia altifrons

Licuala ramsayi

Dictyocaryum lamarckianum

[BPK Palm Addict]

Just a few pics of the back yard.

[Ken Johnson]

There is some local knowledge on BPK but in Key West you may find more gardens with test subjects. The problems in the Keys generally come from salt, poor soil and dryness no?

[BPK Palm Addict]

Ken,

Thats kind of who I was hoping to attract a response from. Anyone that might have direct experience with some of these. Even if not in the keys I would like to hear from anyone in South Florida as we share the same hot summers. The amount of shade and irrigation can sometimes mean the difference for some of these I would imagine. I am also sure amended soil will be required as the soil is alkaline here? It seems I have read about some palms only being able to be grown in a contained in south Florida due to the alkaline soil.

That being said, any advice would be welcome.

[waykoolplantz]

From personal experience the keys can grow Pseudophoenix & Copernicias second only to native habitat. The L P-S & Ramsayi do well. Pritchardias too...all in limestone but with drip irrigation. My BIL's garden in Tavineer is pretty damn good.

[Jeff Searle]

From the looks of your list, your best chance of growing these will be if you amend your soils. You must bring in some good rich, black soil or a 50/50 mix of black dirt and sand. From your pictures, you have a beautiful setting. The Licualas, Kerriodoxa, Actinokentia and Areca should do good, but only with some better soil to lower the ph. The Joey's have been tried for years now and rarely do you hear someone having success with it in the ground for many years. They do pretty well in pots though. And the Dictyocaryum, forget it, it won't grow here.

Tim from Key West reads here a lot, maybe he will come on and give you some further advice. Also Mike in Marathon. His biggest obstacles are keeping the key deer off his plants.

[avanza]

bpk your back yard is awesome.

look like bali jungle

[kwtimo]

From the looks of your list, your best chance of growing these will be if you amend your soils. You must bring in some good rich, black soil or a 50/50 mix of black dirt and sand. From your pictures, you have a beautiful setting. The Licualas, Kerriodoxa, Actinokentia and Areca should do good, but only with some better soil to lower the ph. The Joey's have been tried for years now and rarely do you hear someone having success with it in the ground for many years. They do pretty well in pots though. And the Dictyocaryum, forget it, it won't grow here.

Tim from Key West reads here a lot, maybe he will come on and give you some further advice. Also Mike in Marathon. His biggest obstacles are keeping the key deer off his plants.

Keep the Joey, Dypsis and Areca in a container. I've had plenty of success with Kerriodoxa and Licualas. The key for me is very large holes, and tons of soil amendment. Regular fertilization is essential too. I've seen Actinokentia growing here. They are a bit slow, but will do well in time. A lot of New Caledonia palms do very well here in the Keys. Shelter from wind is critical for all of these palms except the Actinokentia. These should do real well for you in low light, or a couple of hours of morning direct sun. The Dictyocaryum is a pipe dream, but try it in a container. Good luck and have fun with it!

[BPK Palm Addict]

Thanks Guys. That is the kind of information I was looking for. Sounds like some containers are in my future. I have a nice protected spot for the Kerriodoxa tucked under a large hedge of Dypsis lutescens. I read that the Dictyocaryum was imposible in our area but thought it would be fun to see how big I could get it. How much sun do you think the Ramsayi will take down here?

Thanks for all the comments.

[kwtimo]

Remember the Kerriodoxa is an understory palm, and to give it lots of space to fill out, like about a 10 ft diamater. They take their time getting there, but the leaves get massive and the plant needs this lower clearance to have an opportunity to stand out and really show its stuff. It would be a shame to have the D. lutescesns snuff these out. The Ramsayii needs some good lower clearance too when young, but will start to trunk after several years. If you get an opportunity, come and visit the Audubon House and Tropical Gardens in Key West. I have been feverishly renovating the garden, and have planted some really cool stuff there.

[Jeff Searle]

That's as accurate as it will ever get. There's only a handful of extreamly knowledgeable landscapers/ palm collectors in KW and Tim is one.

[mnorell]

Joe, I am on BPK as well. I must say your garden already looks fabulous. I've been slowly landscaping our place for three years now and mostly with different species than you list...but I would say that Licualas in general seem to thrive in the Keys, and Kerriodoxa I believe is native to limestone soils in lowland areas of Thailand, so probably will perform beautifully (as they do at Fairchild). But they do need a lot of space for maximum effect with those huge leaves. I have a couple of small Joeys, but they are J. perakensis so may behave a little differently. One has rooted into the ground from a one-gallon container and is thriving with no additional care. It takes unbelievable amounts of afternoon sun and still looks good. the other I have planted just recently in amended soil and it is growing slowly but steadily.I have had mixed results with Areca. My small macrocalyx is still in a pot. Both A. catechu and A. triandra have stopped growing and eventually died when I put them in the ground, even in an acid mix, I can't figure out what's going on. I have had luck with A. guppyana and vestiaria, though. The deer also like to tear at most Arecas until they get bored with them, and they contributed to the death of A. catechu.

I see you have a beautiful grove of what looks to me to be either Neoveitchia or Satakentia...one palm that really gives me headaches with chlorosis, whether in the ground in a more limey mix or in a container in a peaty mix, is Neoveitchia. I've thrown all sorts of fertilizers on mine and if there is any benefit I assume I will see it down the line with some new leaves, but it is very frustrating. At the moment I chalk it up to our municipal water, which officially has a pH of 9.3. I do have a Satakentia in a pot, now trying to root into the limestone, that has very little of this issue, however. Perhaps you have some advice as yours look beautiful indeed.

A few palms that seem to thrive for me aside from the obvious natives or the usual suspects Cocos, Hyophorbe, Dypsis lutescens, Veitchia arecina, et al: Hydriastele (darianii, kasesa, beguinii) and Ptychococcus paradoxus, which is a real winner. Also Verschaffeltia, Aiphanes horrida, Irartea deltoidea, as well as Cryosophila sp. (albida?), Pritchardia thurstonii and pacifica and the Cyrtostachys hybrid that is now making the rounds. Plus I have a Ptychosperma I bought as lineare but which I think is a hybrid, and it has not only grown trouble-free in limey soil with little irrigation, but is the fastest thing I have. 20+ feet of growth on the largest stem in three years. All of these do beautifully with no real babying of any kind. I do build up my terrain and thus am planting above grade in a variety of soil-types. I've liked some of the soils I've ordered from Mama's in a custom mix, perhaps you already use them for your soil. You're welcome to see my work in progress and I'd certainly love to see your place as well. PM me if you're interested. I'm over in the Palm Villa subdivision on the way to the No Name Pub.

[stevethegator]

Can you guys in the Keys grow C. renda? Don't mean to hi-jack the thread, just curious!

[BPK Palm Addict]

Thanks Tim. I think I have the Kerriodoxa planted far enough from the base of the lutescesns to allow for growth but still get some shelter. If needed I can vigorously trim back the dypisis. I will come by the Audubon house at first chance.

Michael,

Thanks for the comments. We are doing some home renovations and the garden is a mess right now. That is sad to hear about the catechu. I really like the dwarfs. My Satakentias replaced some very large cocos that were just too much trouble. Unfortunately, with the loss of the cocos I lost a lot of shade as well. My 3 Licuala grandis are not happy with me for that. I do have a vershaffeltia and it is turning out to be one of my favorite palms.

I am out of town on business but will be home in 2 weeks. I would love to come by and see your garden when I get back home. You are welcome to stop by mine as well. I will PM you when I return.

Steve,

I do have a small C. renda that got hurt a few years back during the 100 year cold snap we had but it survived. It is very slow but doing well.

Joe

[stevethegator]

Reason number 9million for me to move to the keys someday!

[mnorell]

Re: Cyrtostachys, I think Tim may be able to answer that question pretty fully. I can add that I remember one sitting in a pool at I think either Audubon House or Hemingway. I'm sure there are plenty more around as they are offered for sale periodically though their crazy pricetags and slow speed have put me off. I had one once and the deer tore it to to shreds. Strangely they are not interested in the hybrid and I think it is now just old-hat for them as the leaves must really be too tough to be tasty. I have a C. elegans that needs to go in the ground, and it has certainly survived in a pot with zero issues but it will be a while before I try straight renda again. I think the hybrid is really just about as nice and it is certainly a faster grower. Even so, the hybrid seems to take many months to push a spear but they are enormous and when it does open, the plant seems to have grown three feet or so overall, so the wait is worth it. It is amazingly tolerant of drought and neglect (my specialty!), which is at odds with renda's notorious need for wet feet.

[BPK Palm Addict]

As I said I have a small one that I have been waiting on to trunk. But boy is it slow.

Michael, How big is your C. renda hybrid?

[mnorell]

My hybrid Cyrtostachys stands at about 9 feet now. It was I think 6 feet or so when I bought it from Jeff Searle, and I'm pretty sure it's been in the ground about a year and a half. Beautiful plant and really surprisingly carefree. I was pretty certain I would kill it. Instead it has thrived. It's really starting to color up now as well. Your pure renda looks nice. Does it suffer at all from dryness? Everyone seems to say that C. renda needs to be pretty much in standing water to be happy. I know that it grows in swamps and rivers in its native habitat so that does makes sense. If you keep yours on the dry side you may want to flood it and see if it speeds up. I have noticed with Verschaffeltia that, while it will withstand dry periods looking just perfect, it just slows down tremendously under those circumstances, almost to a complete halt. I can dump a bunch of water on it and it will start chugging along. Very strange how quick the reaction is. I wonder if that would work on C. renda.

[kwtimo]

I know the pics are bad, but these are my Cyrtostachys rendas at Audubon House & Tropical Gardens. The big one is about 10 ft , the small one is over 6 ft. They are in the fish pond, with the bottom 8 inches or so always submersed in the water. The growth rate has been quite quick, and these get all day full sun. They stand on opposite corners of the pond.

[BPK Palm Addict]

Michael, Mine get about 10 gallons of water every 3 days. My Verschaffeltia get 5 gallons every 3 days. Take a picture of that hybrid and post it.

Tim, Thats a great Idea. I think I might buy another one when I rework my water feature and do the same thing. Wonder how that would work with the hybrid. Since it grows so much faster than C. renda I wonder how fast it woud grow in full sun and standing in water all the time.

[Jeff Searle]

FAST!!!!!

[BPK Palm Addict]

As a matter of fact I already have a small hybrid. Wonder how big they need to be for some direct sun? Its still pretty small.