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trachycarpus takil vs martianus


Tropicdoc

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P.S. I will be using this trachy as a sub for the big licuala you see in this pic. I am trying to recreate the picture in my yard in zone 9a.

post-7690-0-00208300-1392649538_thumb.jp

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I have several true takil seedlings I've been growing from rps purchased seeds. They were difficult to germinate and I lost many due to damping off. I lost even more due to the same thing when I recently repotted. Granted I'm a student and used sub-par cultural practices on them, but they are much more finicky than then T. wagnerianus seedlings I've been growing along side them.

There is a large takil at the atlanta botanical garden. It is very robust and tolerates our summer heat well, but I think it actually prefers slightly drier conditions than regular fortunei.

I haven't grown maritanus but I think they may not tolerate heat well, given that they come from high altitude.

I have heard T. latisectus is very heat tolerant and frost hardy, but I havent grown this one either

Edited by stevethegator
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You definitely want martianus for that look, takil will never look like that. Unfortunately, martianus is a zone 9b palm, it won't make it in your climate. There is no 9a palm that will give you that look.

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I just watched a video of the takil at Atlanta botanical gardens.... its close enogh to the look. Would anyone consider martianus 'Nepal' a 9a palm?

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I have seen many Trachycarpus takil in the wild below the Kalamuni Pass near Munsyari, India. And also Trachycarpus martianus near the Gorkha Palace, Gorkha. T. takil is cold much hardier, similair to T. fortunei. It grows in the Kalamuni area from arround 1800 meters till about 2700 or 2800 meters. I have been there twice, in April 2010 and November 2011 for seeds.

Trachycarpus martianus should grow well in milder areas suchs as California or Florida. And T. takil at least in areas where T. fortunei is growing now.

Here some more info of my travels to see both palms in habitat. It seems that still very few Western people have seen Trachycarpus takil in the wild!

Trachycarpus takil in the wild.

Wild growing Trachycarpus martianus near Gorkha in Nepal

www.palmsociety.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?boardid=1&show=31&page=0&topicid=5318&topicpage=2

www.palmsociety.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?boardid=1&show=31&page=0&topicid=7135&topicpage=3

This Dutch nursery grows them since a couple of years by the thousends! Maybe he will also send plants to the US.

Herber Riphagen has also been to the same Kalamuni area. The seeds come also from that area.

www.gardenpalms.com/EN/ARTICLES/Favourite plants/Trachycarpus takil.aspx

Alexander

Edited by Explorer
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You definitely want martianus for that look, takil will never look like that. Unfortunately, martianus is a zone 9b palm, it won't make it in your climate. There is no 9a palm that will give you that look.

Axel, I've had a T. martianus in the ground here in zone 8b for about 7 years. It has seen lows down to ~17F at my old house in town. I have what was sold as T. martianus "nepal form" from rare palm seeds . com that saw 14F without damage where I live now in a more rural location outside of Gainesville, FL.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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The Nepal form that I am growing has leaves somewhere in between martianus and fortunei, circular/entire in form like the regular martianus, but with leaflets being more finely dissected . I assume it is what it was sold as.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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Tank, where did you get the 'Nepal'? I guess there is a chance that you have some sort of hybrid also. Show me pics of this 8a wonder. Does the 'Nepal' show bad browning at say 25F?

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Look a

Tank, that temp has to be a typo. -17F?????!!!!!!?? No way in Gainesville.

not -17F, ~17F. Straight line vs Squiggly. Meant to relate that it was somewhere between 16F and 18F. The temp was taken in a more protected area in the yard.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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Tank, where did you get the 'Nepal'? I guess there is a chance that you have some sort of hybrid also. Show me pics of this 8a wonder. Does the 'Nepal' show bad browning at say 25F?

The Nepal form was grown by me from seed purchased from Rarepalmseeds.com. It is currently about 5 or 6' tall. The standard Martianus has been a slower grower than the nepal form. If you want a trachy that looks similar to licuala, you should probably try a standard T. martianus. IMHO, martianus should handle your temperatures just fine. Probably will have a harder time making sure that it is happy with your soil/nematode conditions.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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I don't see a Licuala in your original picture. Are you talking about the Pritchardia pacifica?

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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You definitely want martianus for that look, takil will never look like that. Unfortunately, martianus is a zone 9b palm, it won't make it in your climate. There is no 9a palm that will give you that look.

Axel, I've had a T. martianus in the ground here in zone 8b for about 7 years. It has seen lows down to ~17F at my old house in town. I have what was sold as T. martianus "nepal form" from rare palm seeds . com that saw 14F without damage where I live now in a more rural location outside of Gainesville, FL.

Not sure what you have,but martianus in California gets foliage damage in the mid 20's. I have a nepal form that got burn at 27F. Not in my wildest dreams would this palm be able to handle 14F. A lot of palms are mysteriously super hardy in your garden that the rest of the world has a tough time growing, I really don't understand this at all other than that there might be something off with your temperature measurements.

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This is martianus kassia hills. It took 27F without damage thanks to the bamboo acting as partial canopy.

23F2F86E-E1FA-4264-93C5-7C1144153262-383

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You definitely want martianus for that look, takil will never look like that. Unfortunately, martianus is a zone 9b palm, it won't make it in your climate. There is no 9a palm that will give you that look.

Axel, I've had a T. martianus in the ground here in zone 8b for about 7 years. It has seen lows down to ~17F at my old house in town. I have what was sold as T. martianus "nepal form" from rare palm seeds . com that saw 14F without damage where I live now in a more rural location outside of Gainesville, FL.

Not sure what you have,but martianus in California gets foliage damage in the mid 20's. I have a nepal form that got burn at 27F. Not in my wildest dreams would this palm be able to handle 14F. A lot of palms are mysteriously super hardy in your garden that the rest of the world has a tough time growing, I really don't understand this at all other than that there might be something off with your temperature measurements.

My T. martianus Khasia Hills shew burned leaves in the low 20 F last winter but my T.martianus Nepal were untouched.

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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You definitely want martianus for that look, takil will never look like that. Unfortunately

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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Axel, Tank's measurements sound accurate for Gainesville. Maybe variation of the species, maybe quick warmup after freezes and hot conditions during most of the year vs your cool overall conditions.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Axel, Tank's measurements sound accurate for Gainesville. Maybe variation of the species, maybe quick warmup after freezes and hot conditions during most of the year vs your cool overall conditions.

The one that burned must be mislabeled. It can't be the nepal form. That would explain what I am observing and stay consistent with Tank's and Albero's observation.

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Looks like martianus 'Nepal' gives the look plus the cold tolerance. Thanks, everyone. I guess I will need to grow 'Nepal' from seed to be sure on the form. I will need to scour the posts lo learn some germination techniques. (I have never had much success with seeds of any sort)

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You definitely want martianus for that look, takil will never look like that. Unfortunately, martianus is a zone 9b palm, it won't make it in your climate. There is no 9a palm that will give you that look.

Axel, I've had a T. martianus in the ground here in zone 8b for about 7 years. It has seen lows down to ~17F at my old house in town. I have what was sold as T. martianus "nepal form" from rare palm seeds . com that saw 14F without damage where I live now in a more rural location outside of Gainesville, FL.

Not sure what you have,but martianus in California gets foliage damage in the mid 20's. I have a nepal form that got burn at 27F. Not in my wildest dreams would this palm be able to handle 14F. A lot of palms are mysteriously super hardy in your garden that the rest of the world has a tough time growing, I really don't understand this at all other than that there might be something off with your temperature measurements.

My T. martianus Khasia Hills shew burned leaves in the low 20 F last winter but my T.martianus Nepal were untouched.

The Khasia hills near Cherrapunjee have a warmer wetter climate then in Nepal. Near Cherrapunjee I have seen plants like Nepenthes khasiana and Caryota obesa. So not an area where you get really cold frosty weather.

Alexander

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  • 1 month later...

Nobody commented on latisectus or princeps for my climate..... Thoughts? I like the leaves of trachycarpus I just don't care for the short petioles on the fortunei I see around here

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No idea on latisectus. Princeps is the next hardiest after the fortunei/takil group, down to Zone 8. I'm not sure how it would tolerate the bayou heat and humidity, but it's from a subtropical area of China. There's only one way to find out!

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Trachycarpus look better here in the shade, which is where I would want to grow it... as an understory/ emergent fan. I like the pics I've seen of some of the larger fanned trachycarpus vs the livistonias.

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I've had a T. princeps in the ground in Gainesville Fl for 4 years. Slow growing compared to other trachys I'm growing. Seems to be holding up great. Gets full sun for about 2/3s of the day including late afternoon sun. Definitely cold tolerant.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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T. princeps in N. Florida, from last fall.

New leaves come out with some blue on the topside and silver on the bottom. Will permanently lose the blue on the top after a rain or two.

Plant is about 3' overall.

post-526-0-08310500-1397677940_thumb.jpgpost-526-0-68640100-1397677956_thumb.jpg

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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Wow that looks great! Way better than the fortuneis I was used to seeing in Gainesville on the campus

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Princeps (at least baby princeps) have the radial symmetry of martianus with the precocious cuteness of wagnerianus, the abaxial leaf coloration of a Brahea calcarea or B. moorei, and (I gather) cold-hardiness approaching that of fortunei.

T. takil looks to me like a larger, more robust, more elegant T. fortunei.

Jason Dewees

Inner Sunset District

San Francisco, California

Sunset zone 17

USDA zone 10a

21 inches / 530mm annual rainfall, mostly October to April

Humidity averages 60 to 85 percent year-round.

Summer: 67F/55F | 19C/12C

Winter: 56F/44F | 13C/6C

40-year extremes: 96F/26F | 35.5C/-3.8C

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Trachycarpus takil is indeed a very majestic palm! I have seen very tall ones in the Kalamuni are in India. Well to see them growing in a wild almost pristine mountainsetting is breathtaking!

But Trachycarpus fortunei can also be a very nice palm. I have never seen it in the wild in China. But it grows naturalised in decidous broadleave forests in the South of Switzerland arround Locarno in Tecino. They did look great there in the forest where I saw them a couple of years ago.

Alexander

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Princeps (at least baby princeps) have the radial symmetry of martianus with the precocious cuteness of wagnerianus, the abaxial leaf coloration of a Brahea calcarea or B. moorei, and (I gather) cold-hardiness approaching that of fortunei.

T. takil looks to me like a larger, more robust, more elegant T. fortunei.

Jason, you must be referring to the fake takil that turns out to be the nanital variety of fortunei. Nanital is indeed larger and more robust, but it's still a fortunei. I have a couple of true takils I bought from Monterey Bay nursery a while ago. They're quite different from fortunei. For one, they grow sideways at first, similar to an oerophilus. The abaxial leaf coloring is also glaucous, but not as white as a princeps. And the top is a gray green color, different from fortunei. The true takil leaf form does remind me a little of nova, which itself was the fake princeps. Man, what a species soap opera!

it's too bad most people don't bother with takil thanks to the fake takil that made the rounds. IMHO even the nanital is still worth growing, I have one, but perhaps it's less interesting to those looking for something different.

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This T. martianus is SLOW. It has been in the ground for about 7 years or so and is well taken care of. Palms next to it are Sabal uresana and S. domingensis.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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Wow that is slow! Makes me not quite as excited about having one. Especially if I might get set-back from cold winters. That scenario caused me to chunk my Jubaeopsis. Just too slow to make it worth looking bad after a bad winter.

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