All Things Must Pass

[Darold Petty]

or ...Harrison 1970

The very first rare palm I planted was a two-leaf seedling of Parajubaea cocoides in 1983. It grew slowly for the first 10 years but then quickly gained height and stature. It became the signature palm of my front yard and a landmark of my city block.

About two years ago this palm began to lose fronds faster than they were replaced. The luxuriant crown became sparse and unsightly. After extensive consultations with my palm mentors I concluded that this palm had contracted an incurable disease, most likely a fungus. It also seemed that this species had a vulnerablitly for this mid-life crisis, both in California and New Zealand.

I cannot afford to let this area of my yard lie fallow for an indefinite time. We removed all the soil from the base of the palm to an excavated hole size of approximately 16 cubic feet.

How should I re-condition this area to minimize the possibility of infection to the replacement plants?

How long should I wait before installing the replacement plants?

All observations and advice cheerfully accepted!! Thanks!

[richnorm]

Very sad, but a good call if our local experience is anything to go by. Can't answer your questions but personally would just fill the hole and start again in spring. It may be that tor tor is a better bet or there is the super fast monster with the small seed that a few grow here.

[Stevetoad]

Ouch. Sorry for your loss. maybe replace it with a parajubea hybrid.

[LJG]

Darold, I was expecting a bud rot from what people like Bob De Jong said happened to theirs. This one looks like a stem rot from maybe Phytophthora. As the tree got bigger, how did you cut the old fronds? Were tree spikes used?

[Darold Petty]

I used an extension ladder, and a small, folding pruning saw to cut both fronds and spadices. The palm was never climbed with spikes until the last day. I use powdered sulfur on cut live tissue most of the time, but perhaps not always with the Parajubaea.

I agree that the discolored trunk section looks like Phytophthora, rather than Gliocladium.. The discolored piece of trunk first shown was from midway up the trunk height, the stump section near the ground was less diseased looking.

I'm hoping that someone can offer specific advice about the best procedure for re-planting this area.

Trunk section at ground level.

[grant b.]

look at all those power lines! it must have been quite an ordeal to get that tree to the ground. its sad to see its demise but at least they didn't smash your new belmoreana. that thing is looking good darold!

[Hammer]

Sorry to see such a good looking and iconic palm die.

[Darold Petty]

The tree service company assured me that they could remove the palm without a crane, and without damage to my surrounding plants. They also offered the lowest bid price. The palm had concrete on two sides. The workers placed plywood sheets on the concrete, then made a 'bed' of old auto tires on the plywood, then a mat of the trunk fibers and fronds on top of the tires.

The chain saw worker would cut very small sections of the trunk, stop his saw, and use both arms to carefully drop the section onto the cushioned mat. It worked perfectly and no other plants suffered any damage at all.

[Xerarch]

Sorry about the loss, but thumbs up on the George Harrison quote, I'm a fan.

[Kim]

Warning, tongue-in-cheek response... How to sterilize the hole? Maybe have a nice hot bonfire in the planting hole? Invite Dave to come in his red tennis shoes to perform a fertility dance around the fire, give it some good mojo. After the embers are cold, remove them, then replant with your heart's desire with sterilized palm planting mix. While the hole is open, you have the opportunity to install bubbling irrigation, uplighting, heating coils, or any other newfangled palm-pampering gadgets. Though painful to lose a legendary palm, the future is yours to Imagine.

[WestCoastGal]

I have admired that palm in photos for some time and know you said at the last Palm Society meeting that it was going to have to come out so wasn't surprised when I saw this thread. Still very sad to see. Great job by your tree cutting company.

The photos of inside the trunk and palm roots are interesting to see. We get to see so few pictures like this. Thanks for posting.

I have no real knowledge of palm diseases. Given where the discoloration was do you think the palm was infected mid-trunk, maybe from some boring insect? I am curious what the texture of the area was like...was it spongy at all or firm and fibrous?

[richnorm]

seems only this sp is affected (so far) and only when they hit about 20 years old....

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I have not heard of any of the oakland palmetum p. Cocoides palms biting the dust. This is the first Norcal casualty I know of.

[bgl]

Darold,

Sorry to see such a special palm beat the dust but at least you've been able to prepare yourself for quite some time for this day. I hope you'll find a suitable replacement!

Bo-Göran

[DoomsDave]

Warning, tongue-in-cheek response... How to sterilize the hole? Maybe have a nice hot bonfire in the planting hole? Invite Dave to come in his red tennis shoes to perform a fertility dance around the fire, give it some good mojo. After the embers are cold, remove them, then replant with your heart's desire with sterilized palm planting mix. While the hole is open, you have the opportunity to install bubbling irrigation, uplighting, heating coils, or any other newfangled palm-pampering gadgets. Though painful to lose a legendary palm, the future is yours to Imagine.

Ouch, Darold.

My red shoes are at your service, if needed!

Hmm. This is one of those profound questions that might not get answered in a thread or two. I assume there's never been a professional diagnosis of the cause of death?

That said, I've had palms die, and I just plant others, and they just grow. Some palms just go into a funk.

Curious to see what you do.

[Darold Petty]

WestCoastGal; The discolored areas of the trunk tissue were hard and firm, no less than the 'clean' looking area.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Well, at least now we know the infection came from the crown and not the roots. I wonder if areas in California that are mild but drier than San Francisco and cooler Summer than Southern California would stand a better chance?

[tank]

You may have seen this site or are familiar with the listed diseases... but hopefully this will be useful.

University of Florida Palm Disease Site

This link is from the UF site and it sounds similar to your problem but who knows. Sorry about your plant.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp143

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

When I visited Len in Vista, I saw that his p. cocoides was already displaying signs of a diseased crown. In Len's backyard, there is a large diseased phoenix canariensis tree, I think it's got fusarium wilt, the infection on that tree is really bad and Len tells me it's been there for quite a while. It doesn't take a genius to make the correlation between the p. cocoides decline and fusarium wilt. Now correlation is not causation, but when you look at what's going on in San Francisco, you also see there is a correlation with Darold's tree getting ill and the epidemic of fusarium wilt that is taking out the canary date palms all over San Francisco.

If I was a betting man, I'd wager that it's fusarium wilt that is killing all those quito coconuts.

[LJG]

Alex, the disease just started on the CIDP. The tree itself had been there a while. My Cocoides only had one bad new emerging spear that I identified and sprayed quickly. Three years ago I was not so fast and it was really advanced bud rot. I was able to spray and save it. I have noticed that the bud rot does not happen in winter or spring. It tends to happen late summer or fall. The hottest months. This would explain why only this species of the genus seems to be susceptible. Another observation is the tree never had issue until it started flowering. The unfortunate thing is I just know once the growing point gets too far out of sight, I most likely won't catch it fast enough and it will lost it like most others.

With that being said, Darold's did not die like most others have. Most others died from bud rot. The center died out but old leaves stayed green. Just as mine was doing. Darold's died from the trunk. His bud was green and it died oldest leaves first. So I don't think a correlation can be made between Darold's palm death and what is typically seen.

Here is a photo of mine. You can see all new growth is perfect.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Alex, the disease just started on the CIDP. The tree itself had been there a while. My Cocoides only had one bad new emerging spear that I identified and sprayed quickly. Three years ago I was not so fast and it was really advanced bud rot. I was able to spray and save it. I have noticed that the bud rot does not happen in winter or spring. It tends to happen late summer or fall. The hottest months. This would explain why only this species of the genus seems to be susceptible. Another observation is the tree never had issue until it started flowering. The unfortunate thing is I just know once the growing point gets too far out of sight, I most likely won't catch it fast enough and it will lost it like most others.

With that being said, Darold's did not die like most others have. Most others died from bud rot. The center died out but old leaves stayed green. Just as mine was doing. Darold's died from the trunk. His bud was green and it died oldest leaves first. So I don't think a correlation can be made between Darold's palm death and what is typically seen.

Here is a photo of mine. You can see all new growth is perfect.

A couple of observations.

Perhaps you are right, it might make sense to distinguish between the deaths in Socal and the deaths in Norcal, they appear to be different symptoms. In Socal, you have warm nights during the Summer, this is something this species doesn't like at all, so the fact that the crown rot shows up in late Summer to early Fall and the fact that it goes from the bud down to older leaves probably suggests pink rot might be the culprit. I recall some posts from Pogobob about his cocoides dying of pink rot in the warm and humid coastal San Clemente weather, here we're talking about very warm nights, >68F and plenty of fog.

Darold's tree died from the lower leaves onward, that is consistent with fusarium wilt. See http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp139

Symptoms

Although the name "Fusarium wilt" implies that the primary symptom is a wilt, vascular wilts in palms do not cause wilt symptoms. Instead, they cause leaf desiccation and leaf death symptoms. As with any disease, a progression of symptoms is observed with Fusarium wilt. Initial symptoms normally occur on the lowest (oldest) living leaves (Figure 1).

Maybe this species is just very sensitive to fungal infection. Perhaps warm and humid Summer nights make it prone to pink rot, and perhaps it just has a high susceptibility to fusarium wilt as well.

I have 8 of these in the ground, they're superbly healthy, by far one of the most beautiful palm I grow. I am crossing my fingers there isn't any fusarium wilt anywhere close. It is a lot drier here in The Summer when compared to San Francisco, but we are quite a bit wetter in the Winter since we're on the windward side of the Santa Cruz Mountains during rain storms.

[LJG]

Another thing too Axel is that CIDPs that die of FW die from a species specific killer. "Fusarium oxysporum f. sp. canariensis". You are probably right that Pink Rot finishes Cocoides off but Pink Rot is usually always a secondary disease so I wonder what the primary cause was?

[richnorm]

That discolouration could just be oxidation. I just cut a pupurea to look for pink rot. It was dazzlingly white but within seconds some cut parts had gone dark brown. The coccoides deaths here were not associated with other palm deaths and only affected old plants even in a plantation setting.

[LJG]

Rich, not oxidation here in that photo. On the bottom part of that cut log, you can see a small chunk of rotted tissue coming off. What did you find when you cut yours open? Many times I have found that the rot is still hard and not easy to see. You look closely and you can usually see the coloration difference from healthy material and infected. Another thing I have noticed is that in a plant like yours where it is begging to show signs of infection, that there really doesn't have to be that much infected area to cause those symptoms.

Rich, did the ones you saw die down there die from the bud or like Darold's from oldest leaves up?

[richnorm]

May have missed it then but had a good look and was tempted to make a salad! First sign of trouble in coccoides here is excessive flowering/fruting then decline from oldest leaves. It's a slow process.

[Tyrone]

Darold, sorry to see such a thing happen to such a beloved palm.

I have a couple of seedlings from your seeds (probably from that exact plant) which will be planted at my new lakeside property on the south coast. Maybe one day I can return the favour and send you some seeds from it.

Tyrone

[avanza]

Please replace it with copernicia baileyana.

[monkeyranch]

Terrible loss.

How are other P. cocoides doing in CA's fog belt (Sunset 17,24, maybe 23)? Just a guess, but I wonder if it isn't the humidity but the salt in the fog bothering the crown or accumulating in the soil? Did the decline begin

when it got it's head up over the roofline, exposing it to the ocean air? Also, high soil salinity is known to contribute to botrytis and fusarium succeptibilty in other plants. We're in a long dry period without enough rainfall to

flush fog deposited salts out of the root zone? Maybe some palms from the Andes, which has very clean air, have problems with salts over time?

Have any Ceroxylons died suddenly in California? They would be a great replacement choice it they have reported to be problem free?

[Sutter Bob]

Sorry to hear about that Darold.

Reading about that tree led me to look into the genus and thanks to that I have a torallyi growing here and hope to start more.

[Darold Petty]

My palm died exactly as Richnorm describes in post # 25. Excessive flowering/fruiting followed by frond death from the oldest fronds first. I don't think salt on the foliage or soil is a likely explanation, as the palm was the ultimate height for several years.

No large Ceroxylons have died, to my knowledge. One at the Oakland Palmetum did suffer bud rot, but we were able to save that one with a liquid fungicide drench.

I have a trunked Dypsis baronii with yellow/peach color in this area, (See the chainsaw photo in post # 1)

I plan to add a D. baronii with dark red/maroon color near the first one to produce a small grove of different color forms. I will also plant a Cordyline indivisa where the Parajubaea was sited.

We are filling in the excavated hole soon, as it is a public liability/ safety issue immediately adjacent to the public walkway.

More comments please, for advise about how long to wait before replanting this area!

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Hi Darold

Sad to see the big fella go but i could see a huge decline during my second visit to your place .

Why not try a good sized parajubaea torallyi as a replacement as they seem to be more resilient to disease over the long term .

Very impressed with the growth on the adjacent Dypsis baronii how many fronds does it produce a yr in your garden ?

Troy

[Hammer]

I'm curious if there is consensus around prevention of bud rot in palms. I lost two specimens late summer to what I believe was bud rot. Pretty gross by the time I realized something was wrong and pulled the spears. Tried the old hydrogen peroxide trick, no luck.

In light of the discussion on this thread, what do you use to prevent this from happening?

Thanks.

[Tomas]

We are filling in the excavated hole soon, as it is a public liability/ safety issue immediately adjacent to the public walkway.

More comments please, for advise about how long to wait before replanting this area!

First of all, I am really sorry to read this thread, it is really painful to lose a rare, nice and promissing palm.

If Fusarium is involved, only resistent palms should be replanted as

"Chlamydospores of Fusarium oxysporum f. sp. canariensis can survive for long periods in the soil and certainly will survive in any infected root mass left behind when a diseased palm is removed." (Elliott, Fusarium Wilt of Canary Island Date Palm, IFAS)

and

"the pathogen can survive for years in the soil" (Broschat and Meerow, Ornamental palm horticulture)

Tomas

[sarasota alex]

My palm died exactly as Richnorm describes in post # 25. Excessive flowering/fruiting followed by frond death from the oldest fronds first.

Darold, this got me thinking. A couple of years ago John Dransfield was explaining the nature of monocarpic palm species on this forum and how they are scattered across different subfamilies of palms. What he said at the time was that there is really no genetic programming that would make a palm monocarpic. All that happens, he explained, is that the massive flowering overwhelms the meristem in some species causing it to shot down. So I'm thinking, maybe this happens to Parajubaea cocoides when it goes through excessive flowering in a less than ideal climate. A conditional monocarpism of sorts.

BTW, that was the first Parajubaea I have seen in my life. Actually in Feb of 2010 it was my first trip to California since getting into palms. Your house was the first palmy place I visited on that trip. As I was driving up I saw the Parajubaea from a block away. So it was the first cool palm I've seen in California. Very sad.

[Alicehunter2000]

Bump.....still haven't addressed the soil issue. ....fire is probably not a bad idea except if you are in the high drought / no fire zone. Also this would not address any areas of extended root zone. Is there any chemicals that you can drench the soils in that will take care of any of the diseases mentioned?

[richnorm]

My palm died exactly as Richnorm describes in post # 25. Excessive flowering/fruiting followed by frond death from the oldest fronds first.

Darold, this got me thinking. A couple of years ago John Dransfield was explaining the nature of monocarpic palm species on this forum and how they are scattered across different subfamilies of palms. What he said at the time was that there is really no genetic programming that would make a palm monocarpic. All that happens, he explained, is that the massive flowering overwhelms the meristem in some species causing it to shot down. So I'm thinking, maybe this happens to Parajubaea cocoides when it goes through excessive flowering in a less than ideal climate. A conditional monocarpism of sorts.

BTW, that was the first Parajubaea I have seen in my life. Actually in Feb of 2010 it was my first trip to California since getting into palms. Your house was the first palmy place I visited on that trip. As I was driving up I saw the Parajubaea from a block away. So it was the first cool palm I've seen in California. Very sad.

I was thinking the same. It might just be these are killed with kindness in cultivation.

Everywhere is full of pathogens but healthy plants deal with them. Use of fire and chemicals is not a route I would chose to take.

[Jonathan]

Darold,

The local botanical gardens here in Hobart were infected with Phytothora several years ago, here's a little snippet I found about how they dealt with it - not much info, but I could probably find out more if you are interested, as I know the head aborist there.

PHYTOPHTHORA CINNAMOMI
Around 1997, another root rot fungus, Phytophthora cinnamomi, was identified in four areas of the Gardens: the Erica, Protea, Epacrid Family and Tasmanian native collections. Since then, all infected areas have been drenched regularly with potassium phosphonate as part of the antifungal treatment program, and soil testing on any suspicious plant deaths has been carried out in the Gardens' laboratory. During 2003-04 a new and simpler method for testing root rot was trialled with success. The status of the disease in the Gardens remains unchanged with minimal plant loss.

In general I agree with Rich, that using chemicals is undesirable, but in the case of Phytophthora, I would not muck around, and if drenching with potassium phosphonate was the best solution, I would be inclined to give it a go.

You might want to get a sample to a lab first though, to determine if this is the culprit.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I'm curious if there is consensus around prevention of bud rot in palms. I lost two specimens late summer to what I believe was bud rot. Pretty gross by the time I realized something was wrong and pulled the spears. Tried the old hydrogen peroxide trick, no luck.

In light of the discussion on this thread, what do you use to prevent this from happening?

Thanks.

I've had tremendous success with lime sulfur solution. I just pour it down the spear and it works like a charm. I had an epidemic of bud rot thanks to dirt in my rain simulator (overhead sprinklers that go on for 60 seconds every half hour in my rainforest section). Lime sulfur cured the bud rot. I've used it preventatively as well.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

My palm died exactly as Richnorm describes in post # 25. Excessive flowering/fruiting followed by frond death from the oldest fronds first.

Darold, this got me thinking. A couple of years ago John Dransfield was explaining the nature of monocarpic palm species on this forum and how they are scattered across different subfamilies of palms. What he said at the time was that there is really no genetic programming that would make a palm monocarpic. All that happens, he explained, is that the massive flowering overwhelms the meristem in some species causing it to shot down. So I'm thinking, maybe this happens to Parajubaea cocoides when it goes through excessive flowering in a less than ideal climate. A conditional monocarpism of sorts.

BTW, that was the first Parajubaea I have seen in my life. Actually in Feb of 2010 it was my first trip to California since getting into palms. Your house was the first palmy place I visited on that trip. As I was driving up I saw the Parajubaea from a block away. So it was the first cool palm I've seen in California. Very sad.

This makes me wonder, mine only puts out a single inflorescence each year. Doesn't a palm flower excessively when it knows it's gonna die? So I think the cause and effect are reversed here. Palm is stressed, therefore it flowers profusely. I don't think it's the other way around.

The added weirdness is that palms that are out of their range tend to not flower at all, or flower but not set fruit. So I really don't buy the theory that p. cocoides flowers itself to death because it's in a less than ideal climate.

Parajubaea goes dormant with lack of water. Perhaps it needs a period of no irrigation where it can go dormant and rest. I do not irrigate mine at all, so they stop growing in late Summer, and this also shuts down any additional inflorescence. I don't see the point of having a palm that shoots to the sky. I usually get one major growth push in the Spring into early Summer after the most copious rains. It will literally grow 2-3 feet. But then it stops as things dry out.

[Hammer]

I'm curious if there is consensus around prevention of bud rot in palms. I lost two specimens late summer to what I believe was bud rot. Pretty gross by the time I realized something was wrong and pulled the spears. Tried the old hydrogen peroxide trick, no luck.

In light of the discussion on this thread, what do you use to prevent this from happening?

Thanks.

I've had tremendous success with lime sulfur solution. I just pour it down the spear and it works like a charm. I had an epidemic of bud rot thanks to dirt in my rain simulator (overhead sprinklers that go on for 60 seconds every half hour in my rainforest section). Lime sulfur cured the bud rot. I've used it preventatively as well.

Thanks Axel!

Am I safe in assuming you dilute in water? If so, what's is the ratio?