Trachycarpus fortunei after 2.5°F and 3.5°F

[tjwalters]

After consecutive nights of 2.5°F and 3.5°F, with a daytime temperature around 14°F in Bowie, MD USA. All in all, not too bad considering these were not protected at all.

Palm 1:

Palm 2:

[Cindy Adair]

They look great. I like these tough palms and admire their spunk.

[Alicehunter2000]

Were they covered in snow?

[Brad Mondel]

I'd keep an eye on the central bud and make sure it doesn't pull out. Looks pretty good for those temps.

[tjwalters]

Were they covered in snow?

No snow cover.

[tjwalters]

I'd keep an eye on the central bud and make sure it doesn't pull out. Looks pretty good for those temps.

Yes, will be watching for that. One had spear-pull a couple years ago.

[jfrye01@live.com]

Wow! Those look great! Makes me very optimistic about planting a trachy here in Kansas!!

[tjwalters]

I should have mentioned that these are both the 'Naini Tal' form, which may be a bit more cold-hardy than other forms.

[tjwalters]

These palms aren't looking quite as good as they were when these pictures were taken, and they are now being assaulted by another polar vortex - this time accompanied by several inches of snow. I will try to post some pictures this coming weekend when the cold starts to lift. Forecast lows for the next three nights are 5, 9, and 7, with all highs below of 24 or below. This has not been a palm-friendly winter.

[Brad Mondel]

Did the spears pull ? Sorry to hear they're having a rough winter.

[tjwalters]

Did the spears pull ? Sorry to hear they're having a rough winter.

It's probably a little early (and cold) for the spears to pull. Maybe they won't, but I'm not betting on it.

[palmnut-fry]

I had a similar windmill palm in the ground as a teen, my first. It succumbed to a particularly harsh winter in the late 70's here in N. Tx. after I planted it. And that was before all the dramatic weather pattern changes of the last 30 years ( some winters, like this year are regularly but not excessively cold, others lately have been bizarrely warm). I think without major heating and protection it's a bit futile to try and grow these in such northerly locales ( maybe Sabal minors with no trunks would be a better bet). I mean, that's fine if you want to try, but it's a bit like me trying to grow a spruce or other cold loving plant in the deep south- trust me, there are tons of perennials and other plants y'all can grow up there that I would've loved to have thrive in this heat dome! What, put an air conditioner on it during the heat waves? Crazy to even imagine. I dunno, I think it's just a big waste of energy. time, and precious resources! But we've got it tough in these parts, it makes you a bit more realistic in your gardening endeavors after what I've come to know! Good luck nevertheless...

[Brad Mondel]

I think people in cooler climates want something different and exotic, or they just love palms...

The cost of putting up with winters will never stop a palm lover from experimenting.

I'm pretty sure I lost my newly planted robusta, but mature specimens grow fine here. Sometimes it's also luck of the draw.

My point is to not give up. If you're trachy doesn't make it, perhaps I can hook you up with a rhapidophyllum or a sabal minor.

Edited January 23, 2014 by ArchAngeL01

[willials]

I would give Trachycarpus Wagnerianus (Waggie Palm) a try if you can get your hands on one. They are claimed to be the most hardy Windmill palm, taking temps down to 0 and even -5F without protection. I don't have any experience with them myself, but maybe worth a try if not too expensive and available in your area.

[Flow]

T. wagnerianus is definitely an excellent choice. However, they are not much more coldhardy than normal fortunei, 1-2C at best, since it is only a cultivar of fortunei. It takes loads of snow much better though.

[tjwalters]

In my experience T. fortunei 'Wagnerianus' is more resistant to wind,but less resistant to cold. Here is one I grew for many years, but was damaged most years even with protection, and died after going without protection for 3 years.

[stevethegator]

I should have mentioned that these are both the 'Naini Tal' form, which may be a bit more cold-hardy than other forms.

I have always been interested in what he hardiest Trachycarpus "form" is. How do yours usually handle frozen precip and prolonged freeze events? Are there any that can survive subzero temps or are low singles pretty much the threshold?

I bought a bunch of waggie and t. Takil seeds from rps a year or two ago to experiment on but they've been slow growers and I didn't want to risk them at such a small size. Im likely moving back to Florida in a few months (life of a law student about to graduate) so I may never get the chance to see how hardy they really are!

[willials]

I can't speak for your area, but in my area small trachys actually do well and grow in the ground from seed here in the Seattle area through a lot of long wet winter days, some of which get below freezing. However, it is rare for us to get below the upper 20s for more than a few days in a row. Almost all of the freezes are wet though and we get "freezing fog" which is basically sub-freezing temps with 100% humidity. Trachys of all sizes and types do exceptionally well here. However, that being said, I still prefer to get mature plants from California because they have been accustomed to some cold temps when small but usually grow faster there. It's easy to find growers here with mature plants (5-20 years old) that were brought in from CA. In this climate, a 5+ year old Trachy is all but bulletproof, with the exception of diseased plants or some extraneous circumstance. I still contend that the summers in the South may be too intense for the ideal of what Trachys prefer, although it can certainly be done. But when you couple that with potential sub-zero temps in Winter, that could be too extreme in my opinion. I would check with others in your area who are growing them though.

[stevethegator]

I can't speak for your area, but in my area small trachys actually do well and grow in the ground from seed here in the Seattle area through a lot of long wet winter days, some of which get below freezing. However, it is rare for us to get below the upper 20s for more than a few days in a row. Almost all of the freezes are wet though and we get "freezing fog" which is basically sub-freezing temps with 100% humidity. Trachys of all sizes and types do exceptionally well here. However, that being said, I still prefer to get mature plants from California because they have been accustomed to some cold temps when small but usually grow faster there. It's easy to find growers here with mature plants (5-20 years old) that were brought in from CA. In this climate, a 5+ year old Trachy is all but bulletproof, with the exception of diseased plants or some extraneous circumstance. I still contend that the summers in the South may be too intense for the ideal of what Trachys prefer, although it can certainly be done. But when you couple that with potential sub-zero temps in Winter, that could be too extreme in my opinion. I would check with others in your area who are growing them though.

They grow great here in Atlanta, theyre everywhere if you know where to look. I've seen a couple in yards with 25'+ of clear trunk. You'd think the heat would bother them but it really doesnt, most of the area has some elevation (average around 1000' asl) so even in summer our nights cool off considerably. The ones in South Georgia/North Florida are a different story however, too much consistent heat for them to ever look good IMO.

Im just wondering about their overall hardiness in general, im always amazed an aborescent palm can grow in zone 7. Glad to hear they survive prolonged freezes in Seattle, and that the frozen fog (yikes!) doesnt rot them away.

I guess a better question is, what temps/conditions will kill a mature Trachy? And which is the hardiest?

[tjwalters]

Some updated photos. Not looking to good after several nights of 2°F and even one night of -1°F, with some highs only in the teens. Not sure if they are still alive. I will treat with a copper fungicide when the weather warms, and will use hydrogen peroxide in the crowns. Any other suggestions are always welcome. Spears did not pull (yet).

Palm 1

Palm 2

[Brad Mondel]

Poor thing. I'd definitely treat it with peroxide. I like to spray the crown, trunk and roots. I saved a butia this way.

I'm surprised the spear hasn't pulled yet, that's always a good sign.

[stevethegator]

Thanks for the update, I'm Interested in hearing how they fare. I hope they make a full recovery, they don't look dead yet!

Small trachys around town here look worse than those and we only got down to 5F or so, the larger specimens seem to be relatively unaffected. Time will tell.

[Crazy-Horse-Marc]

Your brave growing palms in such a climate, but i like it, the palm world needs more like you:-) ,thats a big ask of even a Trachy to face regular winters of possible 2-0f temps, i think your probably pushing them to the max every winter, i have a friend who faces 2f every few years and he has two century old 25-30feet Trachy Fortunei, he bought a 8feet Waggy and it died 3 years after planting to a few nights of 3f and it was a better sheltered spot than the Fortunei? so i wouldent rate them higher than Trachy F.

One thing you could do that would help them is to feed them with "Palm Booster" every week in the growing season this would get them back up to full health quickly and keep them stronger going into winter, and keep them well watered all summer and they shall

grow at a much quicker rate, maybe 10-15cm of trunk a year, that will also help them as bigger trunked palms can take a bit lower temps and yours are still just trunking!

Keep up the good work and let us know how you get on?

[tjwalters]

Minimum temperatures over the last several seasons:

01/23/2014 -1.0°F (so far this season)
01/23/2013 7.8°F
01/04/2012 11.5°F
01/24/2011 6.0°F
02/01/2010 9.7°F
01/16/2009 -0.9°F
01/21/2008 6.1°F
02/06/2007 5.9°F
01/18/2006 9.3°F
01/24/2005 2.7°F
01/10/2004 7.1°F
01/18/2003 5.7°F
03/05/2002 16.2°F

[stevethegator]

How are the trachys doing? Any new damage since the weather has warmed up?

[Alicehunter2000]

I got a waggy from a friend. I know very little about them. Was thinking of planting it full all day sun, south side, a block from the beach...will it handle these conditions? Or Would I be better off planting it on my shady north side?

[_Keith]

I got a waggy from a friend. I know very little about them. Was thinking of planting it full all day sun, south side, a block from the beach...will it handle these conditions? Or Would I be better off planting it on my shady north side?

It'll look much better with some shade.

[stevethegator]

Shade all the way!

[tjwalters]

Here's an update - after many cold nights, including another -1.0°F, many days that did not get above freezing, and much snow. No spear pulls (yet) on these Trachies, but both have severe burn. Here are a few pictures of palm 2 (the better looking of the two):

Still showing green in the spear!

[Brad Mondel]

Looks pretty good considering the temperatures it has seen. I bet it will recover as soon as it warms up outside. Thanks for the update.

[willials]

How is your Trachy faring now that the weather has probably warmed up there? I just took this photo on my phone today while on a bike ride and had to post. This is classic Trachy habitat (this one probably has 15-20 years of growth on it) here in the Seattle area.

[tjwalters]

We've had a few nice days of late, but Thursday's high was 33F, and the forecast for Sunday through Tuesday is for more cold and snow. Nice today, however, with an expected high of 62F. I will try to get out and have a look at it - maybe mark the spear and take a few pictures.

[tjwalters]

Went out to check on the two palms (Nainitals) and both had major spear pull. I doused with H2O2 and will treat with fungicide when I get a chance, but the damage does not look good.

[willials]

Yikes. That's tough. I looked at your Winter low temps and it looks survivable for Trachys but some of those lows (below 5F and especially below 0F) are going to be challenging for keeping them alive. Most sites I have seen show T. Fortunei to handle 5F on rare occasion. Some people say they can handle negative temps but that is probably for a day or two, not throughout the Winter. I hope yours make it. My Med. Fan palms in pots suffered a similar fate this winter. They are not as hardy as some people suggest, especially in wet climates.

[tjwalters]

The damage was severe enough that I decided to take drastic action and saw the trunks down to (hopefully) living tissue. I then drenched the opening with H202 and let is foam a while, then dried the hollow and dusted with Benomyl. Here are the post-surgery pictures...

Palm 1 - removed about 14" of trunk:

Palm 2 - hacked down just about to the ground, about 10" of trunk removed:

[Alicehunter2000]

Doesn't look good....hope it recovers....my stuff that looks like that has not shown any new growth....still not warm enough to kick start growth. Hopefully the cold weather didn't freeze everything to the core.

[tjwalters]

Definitely doesn't look good, but i did hit hard, white tissue on at least one of them, so hoping it will survive. I have covered them with inverted containers to keep them dry. It is now snowing, and we are expecting 4-8". This after 66°F yesterday. Supposed to warm up again by the end of the week. This has not been a kind winter.

[Brad Mondel]

That doesn't look promising but you never know what could happen. I thought my washies were dead but they're growing back quickly.

[palmnut-fry]

Thanks for the update with your furry Trachys! I was going to be shocked if, after this below normal cold winter, that still persists ( snow blowing in Chicago still) that these would be ok. Hell, if mine died in the late 70's ( same size as yours) that was only in the teens. But I must admit, I did not saw or treat with hydrogen, didn't know about that back then. But, it was a sad experience, they seem like our little buddies. If no success with those, try a Sabal minor ( I get tons of seedlings I pull up like weeds and could send) also I STILL have my S. bermudana seeds I offered to ship last Fall but forgot about and there's like 10 lbs worth! Any takers?

If anybody wants let me know, just send me cash for shipping via Squarecash.com and your address...

[Cindy Adair]

I know it went below 8 degrees F here in Virginia Beach and the trachs from seedling volunteers to big ones look fine. Many Sabal palmettos and Butias around town are brown, but the needle palms are fine. It'll take longer to see what will happen when Spring finally comes....