Jump to content


RarePalmSeeds

Photo

Sabal hybrids


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 tjwalters

tjwalters

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 1,562 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bowie, MD

Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:12 PM

Anyone working on these?  Specifically, S. minor x S. uresana?  I would love to try something like this here in z7.


  • 0
Tom
Bowie, Maryland, USA - USDA z7

Potted Palm Collection

Posted Image

PalmTalk Advertising

#2 Sabal Steve

Sabal Steve

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,396 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego (Central)

Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:00 PM

Anyone working on these?  Specifically, S. minor x S. uresana?  I would love to try something like this here in z7.

Look into Sabal "birmingham".  It is supposedly a cross between S. minor and S. palmetto.  Very slow grower, about 1/2 the speed of a palmetto it seems.  Dark green like minor.  I never thought S. uresana looked that impressive as they aged, often loosing their silver color.


  • 0
Zone 10a/10b
Sunset Zone 24/23

#3 tjwalters

tjwalters

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 1,562 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bowie, MD

Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:37 PM

 

Anyone working on these?  Specifically, S. minor x S. uresana?  I would love to try something like this here in z7.

Look into Sabal "birmingham".  It is supposedly a cross between S. minor and S. palmetto.  Very slow grower, about 1/2 the speed of a palmetto it seems.  Dark green like minor.  I never thought S. uresana looked that impressive as they aged, often loosing their silver color.

 

I tried one a few years back - didn't make it here.  I need something made of tougher stuff.  The current S. uresana thread has a pretty impressive specimen.

 

Btw, my S. minor palms are pretty blue.

Palms.Sideyard.20130224-01.jpg

 

Yard.20120906-07.jpg


  • 0
Tom
Bowie, Maryland, USA - USDA z7

Potted Palm Collection

Posted Image

#4 Zeeth

Zeeth

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 2,630 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sarasota, Fl

Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:51 PM

It'd be fun to be good at hybridizing to see what kind of palms you can create. Sabal hybrids with minor as the mother and one of the larger Sabals as the father might be really interesting. A S. mauritiiformis X domingensis would probably produce the coolest Sabal imaginable (though not cold hardy). Also, Pritchardia beccariana X pacifica would be really interesting. I don't think the demand is there though, so I doubt anyone would make the hybrid to sell. 


  • 0

Keith Zimmerman
 
Sarasota, Florida (10a), moving soon to Palmetto, Florida (9b).

 

 


#5 Sabal Steve

Sabal Steve

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,396 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego (Central)

Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:11 PM

It's not a hybrid, but I've heard that there have been S. bermudana specimens that have seen down to around 5 degrees fahrenheit.
  • 0
Zone 10a/10b
Sunset Zone 24/23

#6 sarasota alex

sarasota alex

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 1,425 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sarasota, FL

Posted 05 December 2013 - 08:25 PM

There is a S. "Birmingham" growing in Trenton, NJ for 6-7 years. It's never been protected but does grow right next to a wall with southern exposure.


  • 0

#7 Turtile

Turtile

    Rank: SEEDLING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 162 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Delaware 7a/b

Posted 05 December 2013 - 08:47 PM

There is a S. "Birmingham" growing in Trenton, NJ for 6-7 years. It's never been protected but does grow right next to a wall with southern exposure.

 

Planted by Steve?

 

I highly doubt Birmingham is a hybrid of S. minor and S. palmetto.  Birmingham looks like neither.


  • 0
Zone 7a/b Delaware
Unusual Plants

#8 sarasota alex

sarasota alex

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 1,425 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sarasota, FL

Posted 05 December 2013 - 09:01 PM

 

There is a S. "Birmingham" growing in Trenton, NJ for 6-7 years. It's never been protected but does grow right next to a wall with southern exposure.

 

Planted by Steve?

 

I highly doubt Birmingham is a hybrid of S. minor and S. palmetto.  Birmingham looks like neither.

 

Yeap! Next to the Courthouse


  • 0

#9 Sabal Steve

Sabal Steve

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,396 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego (Central)

Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:15 PM

well, you probably already know this but your options in Maryland or a little limited... no one knows for sure the exact origin of Sabal Birmingham, but its speculated to have Palmetto in it. http://www.garysnurs...Birmingham.html this is a pretty good source for reference. of course there are outliers, but forom what I read sabal Birmingham is supposed to be the most cold hardy next to sabal minor.
  • 0
Zone 10a/10b
Sunset Zone 24/23

#10 Sabal Steve

Sabal Steve

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,396 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego (Central)

Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:56 PM

Perhaps someone is working on a S. minor X S. uresana, but not that I've heard of at this point.  Other cold hardy Sabal species that may be worth looking into are S. "riverside" and a straight S. palmetto.  It's important to remember that as the plant grows and gets more established it will become more hardy.  I think that planting it on the South side, and if possible in a protected location will improve your chances.  Maybe even covering it on colder nights.  

Perhaps another try at S. birmingham?  Like Alex said, they are growing significantly further North than you, and in a more inhospitable climate.  He's pretty well versed on the genus.  Even S. palmetto is said to be able to take temps below 10 degrees fahrenheit by many accounts.


  • 0
Zone 10a/10b
Sunset Zone 24/23

#11 tjwalters

tjwalters

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 1,562 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bowie, MD

Posted 06 December 2013 - 06:21 PM

Perhaps someone is working on a S. minor X S. uresana, but not that I've heard of at this point.  Other cold hardy Sabal species that may be worth looking into are S. "riverside" and a straight S. palmetto.  It's important to remember that as the plant grows and gets more established it will become more hardy.  I think that planting it on the South side, and if possible in a protected location will improve your chances.  Maybe even covering it on colder nights.  

Perhaps another try at S. birmingham?  Like Alex said, they are growing significantly further North than you, and in a more inhospitable climate.  He's pretty well versed on the genus.  Even S. palmetto is said to be able to take temps below 10 degrees fahrenheit by many accounts.

Actually, I'm in the same USDA zone as Trenton, and I'm actually in a cold pocket - I've recorded -8.4F here.  It sounds as if the Trenton palm is in a nice micro-climate. 

 

I've been doing this cold-hardy palm thing a long time, and have tried a lot of different palms.  Needles are solidly reliable here and I have many, including a large one that's at least 7' tall.  I also have a several fruiting Sabal minor palms that are reliable, and many that are coming up wild from seed.  I have a couple Trachycarpus fortunei 'Naini Tal' palms that are beginning to form trunks. T. fortunei seems to be good for a few years when not protected, and good for much longer with protection.


  • 0
Tom
Bowie, Maryland, USA - USDA z7

Potted Palm Collection

Posted Image

#12 Sabal Steve

Sabal Steve

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,396 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego (Central)

Posted 06 December 2013 - 10:28 PM

Blue Spruce...
  • 0
Zone 10a/10b
Sunset Zone 24/23

#13 sarasota alex

sarasota alex

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 1,425 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sarasota, FL

Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:37 AM

A couple of Sabal palmetto observations.

 

There are mature fruiting Sabal palmetto all over Columbia, SC. And once in a while they get a night below 10F. In Jan 1985 it went down to -1F. Some of the Palmettos are clearly older than that, but it's not clear whether any had actually survived that low or maybe all were killed and these were planted since then. The natural range is close enough for these palms to be easily harvested and relocated.

 

On the other hand from what I've read that there are no Sabal palmetto growing in the National Grove of State Trees at the US National Arboretum in Washington, DC. S. palmetto is a state tree of both Florida and South Carolina, but they haven't been successful at trying to grow it at the USNA in DC.


  • 0

#14 Zeeth

Zeeth

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 2,630 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sarasota, Fl

Posted 07 December 2013 - 05:46 AM

A couple of Sabal palmetto observations.

 

There are mature fruiting Sabal palmetto all over Columbia, SC. And once in a while they get a night below 10F. In Jan 1985 it went down to -1F. Some of the Palmettos are clearly older than that, but it's not clear whether any had actually survived that low or maybe all were killed and these were planted since then. The natural range is close enough for these palms to be easily harvested and relocated.

 

On the other hand from what I've read that there are no Sabal palmetto growing in the National Grove of State Trees at the US National Arboretum in Washington, DC. S. palmetto is a state tree of both Florida and South Carolina, but they haven't been successful at trying to grow it at the USNA in DC.

 

I lived in Columbia for a year and from what I saw, most of the Sabal palmetto were not ancient, and there was no regeneration. All mature trees were brought in. However, there were some superb ones by the medical school that were very old. I believe they were older than 1985 because the new growth after transplant was thicker than the old growth, and they had grown probably over 10 feet since then, which takes Sabals a long time. 


  • 0

Keith Zimmerman
 
Sarasota, Florida (10a), moving soon to Palmetto, Florida (9b).

 

 


#15 buffy

buffy

    Rank: TRUNKING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 746 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast Texas (Zone 8a)

Posted 07 December 2013 - 02:11 PM

I have two of the purported Sabal palmetto x Sabal causiarum hybrids from UF. I remember a couple of years ago when they were selling Sabal mexicana x Sabal uresana on RPS,


  • 0

Longview, Texas - 8A: Haven't had anything below 10F since '89. Airport reported 14F in '96 and 13F in '10. I run about 3F warmer than the rural airport. So, technically two (2) Zone 8a winters in the past 20 years.
Winter Low at My House - '06-'07: 19.9F / '07-'08: 24.0F / '08-'09: 24.7F / '09-'10: 16.1F / '10-'11: 17.5F / '11-'12: 27.4F / '12-'13: 28.5F / '13-'14: 17.9F
Temperature Gauge Mounted 8' off the Ground and 6' East of the House.


#16 Ken Johnson

Ken Johnson

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS DIRECTOR
  • 3,991 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 10 December 2013 - 03:47 AM

I'm not clear on Sabal hybrids. Do they really exist? How are they "made"? Is there some DNA data that will guide us?


  • 0
I DIG PALMS
Call me anytime to chat about transplanting palms.
305-345-8918
https://www.facebook...KenJohnsonPalms




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users