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Brazilian Red Cloak Shrub (need some info)


Walt

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Last year a friend sent me some cuttings from his Brazilian Red Cloak shrub. I potted the cuttings up and they took in a one gallon pot. They continued to grow and I stepped them up to a 3 gallon pot. This past spring I planted the potted shrub on the south side (full sun side) of my house. This side of my house is also the warmest side (naturally, because it gets full sun all day long). I also have many uper king ixora shrubs and an out- of-control Tibouchina heteromalla growing on the same side. The super kings grow very well there.

I read that the Brazilian red cloak is a winter time bloomer, and that is the basis for my question.

Does anyone at this forum have experience with this shrub? What I want to know is when can I expect to start seeing some blooms? Do you think my plant will produce any this year?

My shrub is about four feet in height. This is good with respect to winter time protection. At the plant's height and width it will be easy for me to build a tent around it to keep frost off of it. What is other's experience with respect to frost and cold temperature?

BrazilianRedCloak_zpsfb82dce0.jpg

Brazilianredcloakleaves_zps46b3e428.jpg

Mad about palms

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Hi Walt,

I have grown a few of these plants and for me here in Australia I often get 2 blooms per year and yes one of them occurs late winter, from memory the other occurs late summer?

I have seen them many times flower at the size of yours so I would suggest you should see flowers sometime soon.

A pic of one of mine in flower about 15 months ago... These are pretty good plants and grow quite quickly, they don't mind plenty of water either if you give it to them.

post-6412-0-50248700-1381975702_thumb.jp

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Hi Walt,

I have grown a few of these plants and for me here in Australia I often get 2 blooms per year and yes one of them occurs late winter, from memory the other occurs late summer?

I have seen them many times flower at the size of yours so I would suggest you should see flowers sometime soon.

A pic of one of mine in flower about 15 months ago... These are pretty good plants and grow quite quickly, they don't mind plenty of water either if you give it to them.

attachicon.gifBrazilian Red Cloak.jpg

Thanks, Kenny, for that quick reply. From looking at the size of your BRC shrub, I think you may be right and that I may soon see some blooms. I look forward to seeing this. My wife will be delighted if it blooms as she likes almost any kind of plant that blooms. Maybe the hummingbirds I have around here (saw them on my ixoras today) might like the red cloak flowers.

After I first planted my red cloak I did have to water it often, sometimes 2-3 times a day as it started to wilt, as the root system wasn't ramified yet. But I give it lots of water as it's located right next to my water hose. It hasn't shown any signs of wilt in months. now. I'm definitely going to keep a close eye now for the begining of blooms.

Mad about palms

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Ive had mine in the ground for about a year now from a 3 gal. Its in filtered sun all day in lower spot that has plenty of moisture. Last winter I didnt get a single bloom although it was quite a bit smaller. With all the rain from this summer it has probably doubled in size. Currently its a little larger than yours so hopefully we will both be seeing some blooms soon.

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In Southern California mine seems to bloom heaviest late August into November. These plants can grow large fast.

IMG_7617a1.jpg

Picture was taken September 12th 2013.

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I saw one of these in a pot for sale at the San Sebastian, Puerto Rico agricultural fair last week. The seller had some cut flowers to demonstrate, but no name. With my very limited Spanish, she wrote down the name for me and of course I bought the plant. I knew it looked familiar but could only come up with a genus name starting with Mega...

The seller wrote megaque pasha. No internet yet on our farm, but books worked fine and I traced it to Megaskepasma erythrochlamys, known by the common name Brazilian red-cloak. My text reported it grows 8-12 feet.

Thanks so much for the photos and information!

Cindy Adair

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I checked my BRC shrub today for any sign of developing blooms. No such luck. But if by chance it does bloom I will post back photos to this thread.

Mad about palms

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W alt,

This is a great shrub IMO, because not only will it tolerate several hours of sun, but it's an excellent plant to grow in full shade with absolutely no sun at all. And perform well, and bloom it's butt off. I have a good amount of it growing in the backyard, that is in full shade but also makes nice privacy . I grow them in the nursery in a 10 gallon and just recently at my sale, there was several that were in bloom.

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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W alt,

This is a great shrub IMO, because not only will it tolerate several hours of sun, but it's an excellent plant to grow in full shade with absolutely no sun at all. And perform well, and bloom it's butt off. I have a good amount of it growing in the backyard, that is in full shade but also makes nice privacy . I grow them in the nursery in a 10 gallon and just recently at my sale, there was several that were in bloom.

Jeff: I had no idea the Brazilian Red Cloak shrub would do well (bloom) in shady areas, that's why I planted it in full sun. I believe the friend (who lives in Vero Beach that sent me the cuttings I made my shrub from) told me to put it in full sun.

I would love to start more plants (from cuttings) and put them in other areas of my property. I have lots of broken sun/ more shady areas where this shrub would look good.

The photo below shows a partial view of one of my semi-wooded, more shady areas. I would definitely plants some BRC shrubs here.

The Philodendron 'Burle Marx' in the below photo is one I bought from one of your plant sales 5-6 years ago. I planted it at the base of a scrub oak, and over the years it's climbed the trunk, but it's also crawled along the ground, crowding and encroaching on small cordylines and other plants. I cut some of this vine back from around the cordylines and planted the vine at the base of other trees. This vine has performed very well for me considering my zone 9b climate. But back in the woods it's a little warmer and mostly frost free.

PhilodendronBurleMarx_zps3fa91a28.jpg

Mad about palms

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I just a little north of you. Some years mine blooms like crazy, other years nothing. It is much taller, 6 feet, so I'm not sure what the story is. Didn't bloom last year but is blooming now.

David

david

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I just a little north of you. Some years mine blooms like crazy, other years nothing. It is much taller, 6 feet, so I'm not sure what the story is. Didn't bloom last year but is blooming now.

David

How did your Brazilian Red Cloak shrub do last winter? Any frost damage or die back? Last winter was definitely milder than the previous winter, not to mention 2010-2011.

Mad about palms

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Walt,

The only thing I can add is, I notice you have a real sandy soil there. make sure these stay watered a lot. They like it! And probably a little more on the fertilizer. But maybe someone that lives close by can give you some more accurate advise.

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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For an acanth, these seem to be somewhat irregular bloomers, as apparently others are noting above. Not sure why, but I've seen some plants in the same location with the same amt of neglect or care be riotous one year, green the next. I don't have this plant so I don't have personal data, but it sure seems to be something that isn't always as reliable-blooming as it "should be". Perhaps one of the reasons why it never caught on in CA nursery trade; if you've got a big block of 5gals to sell for summer but they fail to bloom, well, out to the back forty for 'em.

Walt, yours certainly looks big enough and healthy enough to bloom. It will, eventually... Good luck.

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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For an acanth, these seem to be somewhat irregular bloomers, as apparently others are noting above. Not sure why, but I've seen some plants in the same location with the same amt of neglect or care be riotous one year, green the next. I don't have this plant so I don't have personal data, but it sure seems to be something that isn't always as reliable-blooming as it "should be". Perhaps one of the reasons why it never caught on in CA nursery trade; if you've got a big block of 5gals to sell for summer but they fail to bloom, well, out to the back forty for 'em.

Walt, yours certainly looks big enough and healthy enough to bloom. It will, eventually... Good luck.

FF: Well, at least I now know (from other's experiences) that the BRC shrub may be an irratic bloomer. Talk about an irratic bloomer, neither of my two mature Peltophorum dubium trees produced a single bloom this year, yet last year the blooms were profuse. My Peltophorum africanum only produced a few blooms on one limb, after last producing blooms several years ago. My 15 year old Jacaranda mimosifolia has never bloomed! Same for my 15 year old Delonix regia. Although the latter could be because it gets too much shade.

Mad about palms

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I grow mine on the west side, roots shaded by the fence but the tops in a lot of sun (4-6 hours in summer, less in winter). It is actually a little sloped. It began blooming this year in July, and now is incredible! Easily 15' high and almost as round, I tried counting the blooms but lost count at 36 as I kept losing track. I prune mine hard in March and by summer's rains the shrub is growing fast. Feeding is done constantly, and I prefer a high nitrogen. Tender to the cold, but rebounds so quickly you are glad it gets nipped on occasion. It seems shading the roots was the key. If I can remember, I'll try to get a pic tomorrow. Greg in warm, humid New Port Richey FL 88F high dewpoint 76F this afternoon with a heavy shower at 6am for 5 mins. Rains with the first cold front would be nice, its been awhile.

Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

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I grow mine on the west side, roots shaded by the fence but the tops in a lot of sun (4-6 hours in summer, less in winter). It is actually a little sloped. It began blooming this year in July, and now is incredible! Easily 15' high and almost as round, I tried counting the blooms but lost count at 36 as I kept losing track. I prune mine hard in March and by summer's rains the shrub is growing fast. Feeding is done constantly, and I prefer a high nitrogen. Tender to the cold, but rebounds so quickly you are glad it gets nipped on occasion. It seems shading the roots was the key. If I can remember, I'll try to get a pic tomorrow. Greg in warm, humid New Port Richey FL 88F high dewpoint 76F this afternoon with a heavy shower at 6am for 5 mins. Rains with the first cold front would be nice, its been awhile.

I expect my BRC shrub to be nipped by frost, at least when it becomes too big to cover and protect. It should be a decent shrub if it comes back fast if partially killed back. In the below photo I took back in August, you can just see (far right) my BRC to the right of my Tibouchina heteromalla; this plant gets nipped by frost each winter, if not partially frozen back, but it comes roaring back. So much so that it is out of control. Since this photo I had to cut it back on the right side by my garden hose rack, as I couldn't get behind the plant to access the hose bib.

It will be interesting for me to see how both of these shrubs respond from frost. I suspect they both have about the same cold/frost hardiness.

004_zps3f71b311.jpg

Mad about palms

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I lost one during the flood last year. It had water to a depth of 2 feet for about 10 days. All the leaves fell off. I trimmed it way back - it was about 8' tall - but it has not come back. I love this plant with its gorgeous blooms. I will dig it out this winter and put something else in its place.

Interestingly enough, I have bromeliads planted around it and they survived! In fact, most of my bromeliads that were completely submerged for 2 weeks survived! This includes several species of neoregelias and aechmeas. I was very surprised. I did lose 3 Gaussia mayas and 2 Hyerphorbias.

Palmmermaid

Kitty Philips

West Palm Beach, FL

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I lost one during the flood last year. It had water to a depth of 2 feet for about 10 days. All the leaves fell off. I trimmed it way back - it was about 8' tall - but it has not come back. I love this plant with its gorgeous blooms. I will dig it out this winter and put something else in its place.

Interestingly enough, I have bromeliads planted around it and they survived! In fact, most of my bromeliads that were completely submerged for 2 weeks survived! This includes several species of neoregelias and aechmeas. I was very surprised. I did lose 3 Gaussia mayas and 2 Hyerphorbias.

Sorry for your losses. I remember you posting about the flooding, with concerns for your horses.

Mad about palms

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Hi Walt, this shrub start to bloom with this size, I have noticed that is demanding in fertilized, and can´t bloom or bloom poor if you don´t feed in mid summer.

Here start to bloom in september, and sometimes produce new inflorescences in winter, when foliage yellowing.

Is stronger than I think, I pruned in april and planted the cuttings in ground soil in outdoors, and almost all rooted. Now I have lots of Megaskepasma!

In spring need nitrogen fertilized, and more P and K in august. This year I used pigeon poop with good results.Also needs lots of water.

Luis

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Hi Walt, this shrub start to bloom with this size, I have noticed that is demanding in fertilized, and can´t bloom or bloom poor if you don´t feed in mid summer.

Here start to bloom in september, and sometimes produce new inflorescences in winter, when foliage yellowing.

Is stronger than I think, I pruned in april and planted the cuttings in ground soil in outdoors, and almost all rooted. Now I have lots of Megaskepasma!

In spring need nitrogen fertilized, and more P and K in august. This year I used pigeon poop with good results.Also needs lots of water.

Luis

Ola, Luis,

Sorry for the late reply. I just the other day applied a combination fast and slow release fertilizer to my BRC shrub, then watered it in. Yes, I believe piegeon manure would make good fertilizer, somewhat like chicken manure. Thanks for your relpy and growing advice.

Walt

Mad about palms

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Hi Walt--

This is a great plant. (and I suppose should actually be called Venezuelan Red Cloak, since it's native there and not in Brasil). I've grown this shrub in two climates--southern Mississippi and in down here in the Keys. Up in Natchez it survived a few winters and came back (slowly) in spring after being killed back by 9a hard freezes lasting 12 hours or so a few times each winter, but finally succumbed in the 2010 nightmare with three solid days below freezing and a low of 18F. It never bloomed for me there but may have eventually if it hadn't been killed out by that one awful winter. It's not as strong as the other Acanthaceae in resilience after freezes but it would be fine in a 9b or in a low-latitude 9a where the freezes are short. You should be absolutely fine where you are.

Down here in the Keys, I've noticed a couple of things about this. Where I am, deer-browsing is a huge issue, and deer almost universally love plants in the Acanthaceae. They are like candy to them. But for some reason this one is absolutely off-limits for the Key Deer, and I would suppose all white-tailed deer. This isn't an issue for a lot of people but it might be for you if you have white-tailed deer around your place. I'm thinking that this chemical resistance may be due to the plant having evolved in Venezuela in an area where the white-tailed deer are a part of the ecosystem. I also have found that it is extremely tolerant of alkaline soils and, once established, to a lack of water. Mine is planted in a fill that is essentially concrete, mostly oolitic limestone and shells, with just a tiny bit of humus. It never shows any chlorosis or other elemental deficiencies in the leaves. I have never fertilized this one except perhaps a little peripherally and its leaves are deep green and it grows well with zero attention as a screen on the edge of the property. I don't water it and it is fine. It's true, in pots this species is very "wilty" and a total PITA to care for, for that reason. But once in the ground and established, it has been fine here on Big Pine. We have a lens of fresh water three feet below soil-level so they may have penetrated that deep, or they just may have enough of a root-spread to capture enough to keep going happily. It never wilts, it is spreading and in fact is now seeding around and several little babies are popping up in the immediate vicinity. Mine is under a Ficus aurea but also gets hot western sun and it is perfectly happy. It just a couple of weeks ago stopped blooming after months and months. Basically all of this year. It had blooms when I bought it as a 7gal and has kept going in the ground with only a few months a year without any blooms. It keeps increasing its bloom-amount and length of season year after year. It is a fabulous plant and I get lots of enquiries from tourists and locals alike about its identity.There's a huge clump at Fairchild (you may be familiar with this, it's between the bookstore and the vine arbor) under I think either live oaks or black olives (or something with that sort of high-branching high-light canopy) and as I remember theirs is a spring bloomer, March-May, perhaps longer.

I hope that helps.

Michael

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Hi Walt--

This is a great plant. (and I suppose should actually be called Venezuelan Red Cloak, since it's native there and not in Brasil). I've grown this shrub in two climates--southern Mississippi and in down here in the Keys. Up in Natchez it survived a few winters and came back (slowly) in spring after being killed back by 9a hard freezes lasting 12 hours or so a few times each winter, but finally succumbed in the 2010 nightmare with three solid days below freezing and a low of 18F. It never bloomed for me there but may have eventually if it hadn't been killed out by that one awful winter. It's not as strong as the other Acanthaceae in resilience after freezes but it would be fine in a 9b or in a low-latitude 9a where the freezes are short. You should be absolutely fine where you are.

Down here in the Keys, I've noticed a couple of things about this. Where I am, deer-browsing is a huge issue, and deer almost universally love plants in the Acanthaceae. They are like candy to them. But for some reason this one is absolutely off-limits for the Key Deer, and I would suppose all white-tailed deer. This isn't an issue for a lot of people but it might be for you if you have white-tailed deer around your place. I'm thinking that this chemical resistance may be due to the plant having evolved in Venezuela in an area where the white-tailed deer are a part of the ecosystem. I also have found that it is extremely tolerant of alkaline soils and, once established, to a lack of water. Mine is planted in a fill that is essentially concrete, mostly oolitic limestone and shells, with just a tiny bit of humus. It never shows any chlorosis or other elemental deficiencies in the leaves. I have never fertilized this one except perhaps a little peripherally and its leaves are deep green and it grows well with zero attention as a screen on the edge of the property. I don't water it and it is fine. It's true, in pots this species is very "wilty" and a total PITA to care for, for that reason. But once in the ground and established, it has been fine here on Big Pine. We have a lens of fresh water three feet below soil-level so they may have penetrated that deep, or they just may have enough of a root-spread to capture enough to keep going happily. It never wilts, it is spreading and in fact is now seeding around and several little babies are popping up in the immediate vicinity. Mine is under a Ficus aurea but also gets hot western sun and it is perfectly happy. It just a couple of weeks ago stopped blooming after months and months. Basically all of this year. It had blooms when I bought it as a 7gal and has kept going in the ground with only a few months a year without any blooms. It keeps increasing its bloom-amount and length of season year after year. It is a fabulous plant and I get lots of enquiries from tourists and locals alike about its identity.There's a huge clump at Fairchild (you may be familiar with this, it's between the bookstore and the vine arbor) under I think either live oaks or black olives (or something with that sort of high-branching high-light canopy) and as I remember theirs is a spring bloomer, March-May, perhaps longer.

I hope that helps.

Michael

Hi Michael, Thanks for such a comphrehensive and lengthy reply.

My soil (sugar sand) is extremely sour. I once had my pH checked and got a 3.69 reading! However, I'm going to have another test done this Monday. I've seen numerous pH tests done using virgin soil (by neighbors), and all were way down in the 4s. So what I'm saying is that my BRC shrub must have a very broad range of pH favorability. Of course, since my shrub is planted next to my house foundation, perhaps the pH is higher due to leaching lime from the concrete, plus buried concrete debris, stucco, mortar, etc., from my house construction. In any event, my BRC shrub is growing great, albeit no blooms as of yet.

As far as deer, I haven't seen one nor any droppings in the 16 plus years I've lived here, and my property backs to state preserve land. When I lived up north the deer would eat my shrubery and all the fallen apples and pears, etc. in my yard.

The fact that your BRC shrub lasted that long up in Natchez is encouraging to me. Even unprotected my shrub should do better in my zone 9b climate. But I also plan to give it some protection so as to mitigate wood/stem damage.

Over the past 15 years I've tried to limit my tropical plantings to species that, if frozen way back and/or to the roots, will regrow with a vengeance and be of a respectable size by early summer. I can't abide waiting a year or two (while watching a slow growing, struggling plant) to regain its former glory. So even if the BRC shrub is only a medium fast grower, it should be okay with me. And like I said, I will protect it as I do my ixora shrubs.

Thanks for your reply,

Walt

Mad about palms

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I've been growing this shrub for around 20 years. I have many in my yard. My plants bloom every year during late summer and fall without fail. I give them very little fertilizer, if any (because they grow so very fast). This shrub does like a lot of water. They seem to bloom best in more sun. I have seen some bloom almost year-around in full sun here in San Diego, CA.

The trunks on this shrub will eventually get pretty thick to almost 4 inches in diameter (my largest one from a cutting in 1995 has a trunk this size).

Here's a photo of one of my many shrubs blooming

post-1786-0-91273400-1382809988_thumb.jp

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In Southern California mine seems to bloom heaviest late August into November. These plants can grow large fast.

IMG_7617a1.jpg

Picture was taken September 12th 2013.

Randy, I can't believe how large those little cuttings I gave you a year-and-half ago grew in such a short period of time! It's an amazingly fast growing shrub!

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Hi Walt--

This is a great plant. (and I suppose should actually be called Venezuelan Red Cloak, since it's native there and not in Brasil). I've grown this shrub in two climates--southern Mississippi and in down here in the Keys. Up in Natchez it survived a few winters and came back (slowly) in spring after being killed back by 9a hard freezes lasting 12 hours or so a few times each winter, but finally succumbed in the 2010 nightmare with three solid days below freezing and a low of 18F. It never bloomed for me there but may have eventually if it hadn't been killed out by that one awful winter. It's not as strong as the other Acanthaceae in resilience after freezes but it would be fine in a 9b or in a low-latitude 9a where the freezes are short. You should be absolutely fine where you are.

Down here in the Keys, I've noticed a couple of things about this. Where I am, deer-browsing is a huge issue, and deer almost universally love plants in the Acanthaceae. They are like candy to them. But for some reason this one is absolutely off-limits for the Key Deer, and I would suppose all white-tailed deer. This isn't an issue for a lot of people but it might be for you if you have white-tailed deer around your place. I'm thinking that this chemical resistance may be due to the plant having evolved in Venezuela in an area where the white-tailed deer are a part of the ecosystem. I also have found that it is extremely tolerant of alkaline soils and, once established, to a lack of water. Mine is planted in a fill that is essentially concrete, mostly oolitic limestone and shells, with just a tiny bit of humus. It never shows any chlorosis or other elemental deficiencies in the leaves. I have never fertilized this one except perhaps a little peripherally and its leaves are deep green and it grows well with zero attention as a screen on the edge of the property. I don't water it and it is fine. It's true, in pots this species is very "wilty" and a total PITA to care for, for that reason. But once in the ground and established, it has been fine here on Big Pine. We have a lens of fresh water three feet below soil-level so they may have penetrated that deep, or they just may have enough of a root-spread to capture enough to keep going happily. It never wilts, it is spreading and in fact is now seeding around and several little babies are popping up in the immediate vicinity. Mine is under a Ficus aurea but also gets hot western sun and it is perfectly happy. It just a couple of weeks ago stopped blooming after months and months. Basically all of this year. It had blooms when I bought it as a 7gal and has kept going in the ground with only a few months a year without any blooms. It keeps increasing its bloom-amount and length of season year after year. It is a fabulous plant and I get lots of enquiries from tourists and locals alike about its identity.There's a huge clump at Fairchild (you may be familiar with this, it's between the bookstore and the vine arbor) under I think either live oaks or black olives (or something with that sort of high-branching high-light canopy) and as I remember theirs is a spring bloomer, March-May, perhaps longer.

I hope that helps.

Michael

Hi Michael, Thanks for such a comphrehensive and lengthy reply.

My soil (sugar sand) is extremely sour. I once had my pH checked and got a 3.69 reading! However, I'm going to have another test done this Monday. I've seen numerous pH tests done using virgin soil (by neighbors), and all were way down in the 4s. So what I'm saying is that my BRC shrub must have a very broad range of pH favorability. Of course, since my shrub is planted next to my house foundation, perhaps the pH is higher due to leaching lime from the concrete, plus buried concrete debris, stucco, mortar, etc., from my house construction. In any event, my BRC shrub is growing great, albeit no blooms as of yet.

As far as deer, I haven't seen one nor any droppings in the 16 plus years I've lived here, and my property backs to state preserve land. When I lived up north the deer would eat my shrubery and all the fallen apples and pears, etc. in my yard.

The fact that your BRC shrub lasted that long up in Natchez is encouraging to me. Even unprotected my shrub should do better in my zone 9b climate. But I also plan to give it some protection so as to mitigate wood/stem damage.

Over the past 15 years I've tried to limit my tropical plantings to species that, if frozen way back and/or to the roots, will regrow with a vengeance and be of a respectable size by early summer. I can't abide waiting a year or two (while watching a slow growing, struggling plant) to regain its former glory. So even if the BRC shrub is only a medium fast grower, it should be okay with me. And like I said, I will protect it as I do my ixora shrubs.

Thanks for your reply,

Walt

Walt--

I forgot to mention that someone (perhaps here on PalmTalk) once told me they had it in Houston for years and it bloomed and bloomed. I don't remember if they said it made it through '89, when they had a 7F reading in Houston though I doubt it would make it through such an event. But I think you are quite safe as you have much warmer winter temps. We need to have some of the folks up in New Orleans, Jax or the coastal panhandle comment with their experiences. My guess is that those areas (cities or immediate coastal areas I-10 southward, I-95 eastward probably to southern Georgia) would constitute the northern extremity of the longer-term safe zone. It is certainly a power-grower. It also roots readily so perhaps you might want to break off a couple of the woodier branches and root them out for other areas of your property under different light or soil conditions. It really is the king of this family in terms of size and boldness unless there's some as-yet uncultivated Amazonian relative that might put this to shame. And it is certainly hardier than Crossandra in terms of cold, which would be the only other member of this family that I ever tried up in Mississippi that would never return after a typical winter there. So if you're growing Crossandra and it returns each year, I would say you are fine. My worry in a cold-winter environment was primarily that if it was frozen down each year it would never have any old growth come springtime and thus might never bloom, if this indeed was the requirement for blooming. Still not sure on that one, it may have also been that it just needed to get a big root-mass and the big stems that come with age to weather the cold and start producing flowers. It's good to see this flowers profusely in SoCal as well. I was a bit surprised at that since this seems to thrive on warm, humid nights. The one difference from the pix here is that leaves seem smaller and more compact on the California specimens, also more clustered toward the branch-tips. But it nevertheless flowers up a storm there. Here the leaves are enormous and the shrubs are great billowing things. In my 42 years of living in SoCal I never once saw it planted. I'm just shocked this didn't become popular in both places a long time ago. It is a stunner!

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Walt, it grows fine here in Orlando, comes back quick if damaged by cold. They are flowering now and I am seeing them being planted in local landscapes. The only trouble I have found with them are they are susceptible to nematodes on the sandy soil. Keep them watered, mulched and fed and they will grow fine.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Hi Walt--

This is a great plant. (and I suppose should actually be called Venezuelan Red Cloak, since it's native there and not in Brasil). I've grown this shrub in two climates--southern Mississippi and in down here in the Keys. Up in Natchez it survived a few winters and came back (slowly) in spring after being killed back by 9a hard freezes lasting 12 hours or so a few times each winter, but finally succumbed in the 2010 nightmare with three solid days below freezing and a low of 18F. It never bloomed for me there but may have eventually if it hadn't been killed out by that one awful winter. It's not as strong as the other Acanthaceae in resilience after freezes but it would be fine in a 9b or in a low-latitude 9a where the freezes are short. You should be absolutely fine where you are.

Down here in the Keys, I've noticed a couple of things about this. Where I am, deer-browsing is a huge issue, and deer almost universally love plants in the Acanthaceae. They are like candy to them. But for some reason this one is absolutely off-limits for the Key Deer, and I would suppose all white-tailed deer. This isn't an issue for a lot of people but it might be for you if you have white-tailed deer around your place. I'm thinking that this chemical resistance may be due to the plant having evolved in Venezuela in an area where the white-tailed deer are a part of the ecosystem. I also have found that it is extremely tolerant of alkaline soils and, once established, to a lack of water. Mine is planted in a fill that is essentially concrete, mostly oolitic limestone and shells, with just a tiny bit of humus. It never shows any chlorosis or other elemental deficiencies in the leaves. I have never fertilized this one except perhaps a little peripherally and its leaves are deep green and it grows well with zero attention as a screen on the edge of the property. I don't water it and it is fine. It's true, in pots this species is very "wilty" and a total PITA to care for, for that reason. But once in the ground and established, it has been fine here on Big Pine. We have a lens of fresh water three feet below soil-level so they may have penetrated that deep, or they just may have enough of a root-spread to capture enough to keep going happily. It never wilts, it is spreading and in fact is now seeding around and several little babies are popping up in the immediate vicinity. Mine is under a Ficus aurea but also gets hot western sun and it is perfectly happy. It just a couple of weeks ago stopped blooming after months and months. Basically all of this year. It had blooms when I bought it as a 7gal and has kept going in the ground with only a few months a year without any blooms. It keeps increasing its bloom-amount and length of season year after year. It is a fabulous plant and I get lots of enquiries from tourists and locals alike about its identity.There's a huge clump at Fairchild (you may be familiar with this, it's between the bookstore and the vine arbor) under I think either live oaks or black olives (or something with that sort of high-branching high-light canopy) and as I remember theirs is a spring bloomer, March-May, perhaps longer.

I hope that helps.

Michael

Hi Michael, Thanks for such a comphrehensive and lengthy reply.

My soil (sugar sand) is extremely sour. I once had my pH checked and got a 3.69 reading! However, I'm going to have another test done this Monday. I've seen numerous pH tests done using virgin soil (by neighbors), and all were way down in the 4s. So what I'm saying is that my BRC shrub must have a very broad range of pH favorability. Of course, since my shrub is planted next to my house foundation, perhaps the pH is higher due to leaching lime from the concrete, plus buried concrete debris, stucco, mortar, etc., from my house construction. In any event, my BRC shrub is growing great, albeit no blooms as of yet.

As far as deer, I haven't seen one nor any droppings in the 16 plus years I've lived here, and my property backs to state preserve land. When I lived up north the deer would eat my shrubery and all the fallen apples and pears, etc. in my yard.

The fact that your BRC shrub lasted that long up in Natchez is encouraging to me. Even unprotected my shrub should do better in my zone 9b climate. But I also plan to give it some protection so as to mitigate wood/stem damage.

Over the past 15 years I've tried to limit my tropical plantings to species that, if frozen way back and/or to the roots, will regrow with a vengeance and be of a respectable size by early summer. I can't abide waiting a year or two (while watching a slow growing, struggling plant) to regain its former glory. So even if the BRC shrub is only a medium fast grower, it should be okay with me. And like I said, I will protect it as I do my ixora shrubs.

Thanks for your reply,

Walt

Walt--

I forgot to mention that someone (perhaps here on PalmTalk) once told me they had it in Houston for years and it bloomed and bloomed. I don't remember if they said it made it through '89, when they had a 7F reading in Houston though I doubt it would make it through such an event. But I think you are quite safe as you have much warmer winter temps. We need to have some of the folks up in New Orleans, Jax or the coastal panhandle comment with their experiences. My guess is that those areas (cities or immediate coastal areas I-10 southward, I-95 eastward probably to southern Georgia) would constitute the northern extremity of the longer-term safe zone. It is certainly a power-grower. It also roots readily so perhaps you might want to break off a couple of the woodier branches and root them out for other areas of your property under different light or soil conditions. It really is the king of this family in terms of size and boldness unless there's some as-yet uncultivated Amazonian relative that might put this to shame. And it is certainly hardier than Crossandra in terms of cold, which would be the only other member of this family that I ever tried up in Mississippi that would never return after a typical winter there. So if you're growing Crossandra and it returns each year, I would say you are fine. My worry in a cold-winter environment was primarily that if it was frozen down each year it would never have any old growth come springtime and thus might never bloom, if this indeed was the requirement for blooming. Still not sure on that one, it may have also been that it just needed to get a big root-mass and the big stems that come with age to weather the cold and start producing flowers. It's good to see this flowers profusely in SoCal as well. I was a bit surprised at that since this seems to thrive on warm, humid nights. The one difference from the pix here is that leaves seem smaller and more compact on the California specimens, also more clustered toward the branch-tips. But it nevertheless flowers up a storm there. Here the leaves are enormous and the shrubs are great billowing things. In my 42 years of living in SoCal I never once saw it planted. I'm just shocked this didn't become popular in both places a long time ago. It is a stunner!

If the BRC shrub can make it in Houston (with the exception of an '89 type of freeze), then I feel confident it will make it at my place. Moreover, I will give mine some protection because it's growing right up against the south side of my house (the warmest side). In any event, I look forward to see how it fares this winter.

Mad about palms

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Walt, it grows fine here in Orlando, comes back quick if damaged by cold. They are flowering now and I am seeing them being planted in local landscapes. The only trouble I have found with them are they are susceptible to nematodes on the sandy soil. Keep them watered, mulched and fed and they will grow fine.

Eric, are they growing at Leu? If so, what is your experience with regard to exact low temperatures and frost before they defoliate? Do you know how they would compare, say to an ixora? I ask because I have ixora super kings planted all along the south and east side of my house. They generally fare okay if I cover them with multiple layers of blankets so as to keep frost off of them. On ocassion they will partially defoliate due to the cold, even though they escape frost damage.

Mad about palms

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Thanks to all those that also replied (and also posted nice representative photos) to my question and I didn't reply to you specifically.

I checked my BRC shrub again today and still no signs of blooms. No matter, I'm willing to wait until next year. But from all of your replies I'm encouraged now.

Mad about palms

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Good luck with your plant Walt. As an encouragement mine did bloom at a small size as shown in the pictures below. I also had flowers in April this year as well as the heaveir fall bloom. Hopfuly you won't have to wait to much longer.

IMG_6950.jpg

Above were my plants on 8/01/2011. One in a 5 gallon and two in 1 gallon containers.

Below are the same plants 3 months later on 11/05/2011 showing thier first flowers in the same containers. They went into the ground later that November and have bloomed every year since.

IMG_9027.jpg

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Good luck with your plant Walt. As an encouragement mine did bloom at a small size as shown in the pictures below. I also had flowers in April this year as well as the heaveir fall bloom. Hopfuly you won't have to wait to much longer.

IMG_6950.jpg

Above were my plants on 8/01/2011. One in a 5 gallon and two in 1 gallon containers.

Below are the same plants 3 months later on 11/05/2011 showing thier first flowers in the same containers. They went into the ground later that November and have bloomed every year since.

IMG_9027.jpg

Randall: I'm surprised. I would have never thought you would have gotten blooms at that plant size. So, yes, I am encouraged. I feel it's just a matter of time before my plant blooms. I realize some flowering plants and trees are erratic. I have peltophorum trees (dubium and africanum) that will go years in between blooms. I have a Jacaranda mimosifolia that is 16 years old and had never bloomed. Yet I have small jacarandas 1/10th the size that get blooms.

Mad about palms

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Walt, it grows fine here in Orlando, comes back quick if damaged by cold. They are flowering now and I am seeing them being planted in local landscapes. The only trouble I have found with them are they are susceptible to nematodes on the sandy soil. Keep them watered, mulched and fed and they will grow fine.

Eric, are they growing at Leu? If so, what is your experience with regard to exact low temperatures and frost before they defoliate? Do you know how they would compare, say to an ixora? I ask because I have ixora super kings planted all along the south and east side of my house. They generally fare okay if I cover them with multiple layers of blankets so as to keep frost off of them. On ocassion they will partially defoliate due to the cold, even though they escape frost damage.

Yes, we have them planted in several locations.

They shed leaves below around 35. Below about 31-32F will kill them back. I would say slighty more tender than the super king ixora as the Red Cloaks are succulent. But like any other Acanthaceae (Justicia, Jacobinia, Barleria, etc) the Red Cloaks grow back quick.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Walt, it grows fine here in Orlando, comes back quick if damaged by cold. They are flowering now and I am seeing them being planted in local landscapes. The only trouble I have found with them are they are susceptible to nematodes on the sandy soil. Keep them watered, mulched and fed and they will grow fine.

Eric, are they growing at Leu? If so, what is your experience with regard to exact low temperatures and frost before they defoliate? Do you know how they would compare, say to an ixora? I ask because I have ixora super kings planted all along the south and east side of my house. They generally fare okay if I cover them with multiple layers of blankets so as to keep frost off of them. On ocassion they will partially defoliate due to the cold, even though they escape frost damage.

Yes, we have them planted in several locations.

They shed leaves below around 35. Below about 31-32F will kill them back. I would say slighty more tender than the super king ixora as the Red Cloaks are succulent. But like any other Acanthaceae (Justicia, Jacobinia, Barleria, etc) the Red Cloaks grow back quick.

Thanks. I had a hunch the BRC was probably more tender to cold and frost, but the main thing is that they grow back fast.

Mad about palms

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Good luck with your plant Walt. As an encouragement mine did bloom at a small size as shown in the pictures below. I also had flowers in April this year as well as the heaveir fall bloom. Hopfuly you won't have to wait to much longer.

IMG_6950.jpg

Above were my plants on 8/01/2011. One in a 5 gallon and two in 1 gallon containers.

Below are the same plants 3 months later on 11/05/2011 showing thier first flowers in the same containers. They went into the ground later that November and have bloomed every year since.

IMG_9027.jpg

Randall: I'm surprised. I would have never thought you would have gotten blooms at that plant size. So, yes, I am encouraged. I feel it's just a matter of time before my plant blooms. I realize some flowering plants and trees are erratic. I have peltophorum trees (dubium and africanum) that will go years in between blooms. I have a Jacaranda mimosifolia that is 16 years old and had never bloomed. Yet I have small jacarandas 1/10th the size that get blooms.

Walt:

These were cuttings off my mature plant. They can bloom very small from cuttings.

Randy:

I thought I gave these cuttings to you just last year. Wow, has time flown by...

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Hi Walt,

Here becomes some yellow in winter, especially after windy frost, above 34 F, but even in cold weather produces new blooms.

I pruned every year at half height or less, and grow fast in spring .

I too have noticed that it is resistant to the alkalinity, grow well in my lime clay, but is thankfull if you add some compost.I could never grow Ixora here.

I saw this plant for first time in Tenerife a years ago and I was impressed, here is offered in nurseries in the last years.

pictures of this year, lying after the rain and wind

post-3315-0-18945700-1383351937_thumb.jp

post-3315-0-00690200-1383352600_thumb.jp

These plants have a year in the ground, were not fertilized but some have blooms why? some are under the tree, and in that tree there are many pigeons.

post-3315-0-22669900-1383352403_thumb.jp

post-3315-0-87078700-1383352448_thumb.jp

another acanthaceae that is now blooming, Justicia aurea, more cold tolerant, with beauty flowers and ugly bracts

post-3315-0-31544300-1383352886_thumb.jp

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Good luck with your plant Walt. As an encouragement mine did bloom at a small size as shown in the pictures below. I also had flowers in April this year as well as the heaveir fall bloom. Hopfuly you won't have to wait to much longer.

IMG_6950.jpg

Above were my plants on 8/01/2011. One in a 5 gallon and two in 1 gallon containers.

Below are the same plants 3 months later on 11/05/2011 showing thier first flowers in the same containers. They went into the ground later that November and have bloomed every year since.

IMG_9027.jpg

Randall: I'm surprised. I would have never thought you would have gotten blooms at that plant size. So, yes, I am encouraged. I feel it's just a matter of time before my plant blooms. I realize some flowering plants and trees are erratic. I have peltophorum trees (dubium and africanum) that will go years in between blooms. I have a Jacaranda mimosifolia that is 16 years old and had never bloomed. Yet I have small jacarandas 1/10th the size that get blooms.

Walt:

These were cuttings off my mature plant. They can bloom very small from cuttings.

Randy:

I thought I gave these cuttings to you just last year. Wow, has time flown by...

I intend to make lots of cutting in the spring of 2014. Definitely want more of these plants to try in other locations of my property.

Mad about palms

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Hi Walt,

Here becomes some yellow in winter, especially after windy frost, above 34 F, but even in cold weather produces new blooms.

I pruned every year at half height or less, and grow fast in spring .

I too have noticed that it is resistant to the alkalinity, grow well in my lime clay, but is thankfull if you add some compost.I could never grow Ixora here.

I saw this plant for first time in Tenerife a years ago and I was impressed, here is offered in nurseries in the last years.

pictures of this year, lying after the rain and wind

attachicon.gif2013-10-30 08.43.59.jpg

attachicon.gif2013-10-30 14.44.57.jpg

These plants have a year in the ground, were not fertilized but some have blooms why? some are under the tree, and in that tree there are many pigeons.

attachicon.gif2013-10-30 14.48.31.jpg

attachicon.gif2013-10-30 14.49.46.jpg

another acanthaceae that is now blooming, Justicia aurea, more cold tolerant, with beauty flowers and ugly bracts

attachicon.gif2013-10-30 14.44.02.jpg

Hi Luis,

I figured in your location that you wouldn't get frost at all, or at least infrequently. I like the Justicia aurea. That's a plant I don't have -- yet! If it's slightly more cold tolerant than Brazilian Red Cloak, all the better. I'm wonder if both of these plants attract hummingbirds? That would be nice if they do, as I've seen hummingbirds on my ixora flowers.

Walt

Mad about palms

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Good luck with your plant Walt. As an encouragement mine did bloom at a small size as shown in the pictures below. I also had flowers in April this year as well as the heaveir fall bloom. Hopfuly you won't have to wait to much longer.

IMG_6950.jpg

Above were my plants on 8/01/2011. One in a 5 gallon and two in 1 gallon containers.

Below are the same plants 3 months later on 11/05/2011 showing thier first flowers in the same containers. They went into the ground later that November and have bloomed every year since.

IMG_9027.jpg

Randall: I'm surprised. I would have never thought you would have gotten blooms at that plant size. So, yes, I am encouraged. I feel it's just a matter of time before my plant blooms. I realize some flowering plants and trees are erratic. I have peltophorum trees (dubium and africanum) that will go years in between blooms. I have a Jacaranda mimosifolia that is 16 years old and had never bloomed. Yet I have small jacarandas 1/10th the size that get blooms.

Walt:

These were cuttings off my mature plant. They can bloom very small from cuttings.

Randy:

I thought I gave these cuttings to you just last year. Wow, has time flown by...

I intend to make lots of cutting in the spring of 2014. Definitely want more of these plants to try in other locations of my property.

This is a good time of the year to make cuttings here in San Diego. I would think in Florida you could get them to root anytime of the year, also.

I just stick several cuttings directly into a pot with free-draining soil and most of them usually will take in a month or so.

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  • 5 months later...

Well, it's been since last November since I posted on my Brazilian red cloak shrub. My plant is now just a hair over 6 feet in height at its highest point. So far not one single bloom! I fertilized it in early March and will fertilize it again in about a week, maybe two weeks. It gets watered about every other day.

009_zpsb9ed3097.jpg

Mad about palms

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I suspect feeding it monthly from spring into fall with a complete fertilizer, and adding a thick layer of compost as mulch would do the trick to get this blooming for you. It was a dismal failure for me here in Berkeley, California; lack of heat year round, and winters a bit too long and cool/wet. On the other hand, Justicia aurea blooms quite well here, if not in winter as it does in southern California, and takes light frosts with just leaf loss.

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