Lemurophoenix new sps.

[neoflora]

Well I was hoping to see something on this by now. I got several years ago seed of a new Lemuirophoenix. The seeds came from Clayton via Jeff, Marcus. The seeds were much smaller and seedlings look different. I heard info was submitted { Flowers, etc.} I wonder were the description is ?

[John Dransfield]

I received a seed from Clayton, enough to see that it was probably from a Lemurophoenix, but one radically different from L. halleuxii. I have seen no other material and until new properly collected material becomes available, this must remain a tantalising mystery

JOhn

[Utopia Palms]

Hi John

I do hope in the future that your student Mr JORO can work with some of my collectors as this will benefit all, but with Mr JORO not permitting some of my collectors to take any photos this will not help them work together.

I will arrange pressings when I can and also should have some photos soon.

Mike in cairns had one of his seedlings (a freak) flower I will ask him to list the photos when I get a chance.

The seed of this species with fruit on looks very much like a bismarkia seed so much so that you would have to clean it to see for your self that it is something different. It’s quite amazing!

I will see what I can do about some photos for all to see soon.

Clayton.

[neoflora]

Hey John! What about DNA? Check the seed you have. Seems like DNA would give you enough information.

[JD in the OC]

Now we just need to unlock the secret of how to keep the damn things alive more than 1 year :-)

[John Dransfield]

THe seed is preserved in alcohol and so the DNA is no longer useful. Besides, DNA does not tell us what the palm looks like - it might, however, tell us whether it is a Lemurophoenix or not. We need proper specimens. Clearly the best approach would be for some material to be collected with all the necessary permits from Departement des Eaux et Forets,  ANGAP and export permits. Joro is well set up to do this and I hope some trust can be established between your collectors and Joro in the future

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

Have some pic's to post, but  how

[neoflora]

John, So what your are saying! If,I or someone else go to Madagascar and finds a new palm. We have to work only through Joro to have it id. By the way, what about all the things already in cultivation? D. florencia, D. Slick Willy, D. jurrasic park, and many others flowering out of Madagascar. I to have someting I collected and is flowering and fruiting for me. Ron

[mike453]

Mike E,

Try this link for info on posting a picture. If that doesn't work, you could always email them to someone and have them post for you.

                                Regards, Mike

          http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboar...t=ST;f=2;t=2327

[cfkingfish]

A little canary told me this is actually not a new sp. but a form with a different leaflet width. The mature plant looks the same as does the seed. What could I possibly learn from a bird though?

[Utopia Palms]

Hi Christian

I take it you have not seen the seedlings as this sp looks nothing like its brother L.Halleuxii you will have to wait till I list some photos.

Also this sp does not have the red crown shaft.

[PALM MOD]

Christian,

Did that little canary happen to be sitting in a "Tree?" ::

[neoflora]

Christian, I have plants of both. The small seed type has a different looking seed. The palms look different. And if Joro will let Clayton's collectors take pictures. We will all see the mature palms!

[cfkingfish]

I actually never saw the bird, I had my back to him the entire time.  :cool:

I do believe you guys, if y'all have seen it and have it, then I don't doubt your eyes.

[Dypsisdean]

Ron,

How does someone prevent another from taking a picture?

[neoflora]

Dean, I wasn't there on location. Just heard this through a friend. Suprised the heck out of me! Doesn't sound like something made up.

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

Sounds  like  someone  wants,  or  thinks He  is  the     Big  Boss.  Or  Maybe  on  This  own  Agenda. ???   What  is  going on,  Hopefully  not  more     confusion......Why  do  some  Work  in  what  seems  to  be  based  the  same, but  are  really  after  the  fame . I  personally  know two  very  well  respected  Botanist's up Here  in  Far  North  Queensland,  and    must  ask  them  what  their  opinion is regarding  this  very  weird            and   different   thinking   esp  from  a  student, No matter what  quaifications he  may have....................Regards Mike .E.   What  do  you  other  Members  think  about  this,  Love  to see  your thoughts  

[chris.oz]

(calyptrocalyx&licuala freck @ Feb. 04 2007,02:13)

QUOTE

Sounds  like  someone  wants,  or  thinks He  is  the     Big  Boss.  Or  Maybe  on  This  own  Agenda. ???   What  is  going on,  Hopefully  not  more     confusion......Why  do  some  Work  in  what  seems  to  be  based  the  same, but  are  really  after  the  fame . I  personally  know two  very  well  respected  Botanist's up Here  in  Far  North  Queensland,  and    must  ask  them  what  their  opinion is regarding  this  very  weird            and   different   thinking   esp  from  a  student, No matter what  quaifications he  may have....................Regards Mike .E.   What  do  you  other  Members  think  about  this,  Love  to see  your thoughts  

At one time botanists had examined numerous palms in Hawaiian valleys  and named them Pritchardia martii,  P. martiodes, P. kahanae, P gaudichaudi, P. rockiana, P. kahukuensis, P. kamapuaana and P. mcdanielsii.

It is now believed that while the botanists who named them believed they were different species,  they are really all forms  of P. martii.

It is possible to buy palms from palm suppliers named as P. gaudichaudi,  as the palm suppliers seem reluctant to dispense with names that botanists have sunk.   Another example: Chamaedorea erumpens ??? what is that.  You can still buy it... there are others.

Now thats not to say that in his revision,  Don Hodel may not conclude that some of the forms above do deserve to be named as species.

The point is,  that the palm has to be properly studied by a person trained in the field or with sufficient knowledge of the methods and procedures and the ability to discern what might be environmentally related differences.  He needs to have access to herbarium material of related species,  with access to the original descriptions, and with a knowledge of how to describe a species so that the paper will be accepted and published.

Even then the description is not set in stone........

[Utopia Palms]

For those still in two minds here are a few photos of both species as seedlings so we can see the difference between the two sp.

The only thing these two species have in common is there seed! And there is a big size difference not to mention the fruit also the flowers key out perfectly.

As for photos and herbarium material my collector has no problem and is quite capable of doing this by him self with all permits and export permits needed.

As Joro should now be in Kew for the next few months.

And these will be sent to a botanist soon.

Hope these photos help until Mike can lists the photos of the one that flowered which keys out to lemuriophoenix perfectly. (Flowers are born in Triads of a central pistillate and two laterial staminate for about 2/3 of the rachilla length. etc)

[Utopia Palms]

Lemurophoenix hallexii

[Utopia Palms]

Sorry about the photos i hope Mikes are better than mine.

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

Here  we  go,  By  the 3  pictures [One  sorry  two  say  will  not  be  posted  due  to  work  under  way,  But  look  close  and  Just  from  what  is  visable,  will  surprize  you..

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

no 2. I have to resize  the others  more  soon....

[Utopia Palms]

Hi Scott

The botanist do not know much about this sp at all, they do not know the locality, if it is a Lemurophoenix what the leaves look like how many there are etc.  The only thing that John Dransfield has is a seed at the moment, so in sending out this material to a botanist from habitat this will help name this sp and also show that this palm is a second species of Lemurophoenix.

I think you are confused there some were.

All the best.

Clayton.

[gsn]

Clayton,

I don't recall posting on this thread  at all, thank you? ??? ? ??? ? ??? ?  ???

[Utopia Palms]

Hi Scott

Well you should have because I think you have mixed up what I have said in this topic with the other topic about Marojejya. For give me if I’m wrong?

All the best  

Clayton.

[Moose]

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2007‎ ‎11‎:‎23‎:‎41‎, JD in the OC said:

Now we just need to unlock the secret of how to keep the damn things alive more than 1 year :-)

We must defer to Triode Rob

[BS Man about Palms]

Well, there has been "some" progress on this thread subject though...

[BS Man about Palms]

Bump just for the heck of it..

 

[quaman58]

Bill,

 

Am I not mistaken that Jeff Markus talked a bit about this last year when he was in SoCal? I wish we could grow these around here..

 

Bret

[BS Man about Palms]

45 minutes ago, quaman58 said:

Bill,

 

Am I not mistaken that Jeff Markus talked a bit about this last year when he was in SoCal? I wish we could grow these around here..

 

Bret

Yep.. I was looking to get this updated.. I same the name and just looked, it's been announced, but I don't remember getting my journal.. 

Da da da daaaaa Lemurophoenix laevis is the new Lemur palm!!

https://twitter.com/teamkmcc/status/1024951475691315200

[quaman58]

Beautiful, thanks Bill.

[realarch]

I was surprised when I received my Palm Journal about another species of Lemurophoenix. Makes me wonder which one I've got. Time to dig a bit deeper.

Tim