Which Copernicia are hardy to 26F or better

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I have a Copernicia prunifera that is so beautiful and silver. It's lonely and would like to hang out with some cousins. Any suggestions? Hardy to 9b/10a would be best.

[BigBpalms]

I have C. alba and C. Glabrescens that have seen low 20's a few times without problems

[SubTropicRay]

All of my Copernicia (listed below) survived 26F in January 2010 except for C. berterona. The coldest night was accompanied by one night at 27F and another at 29F so it was a 3 night event. I've found the Cuban species to be considerably more cold tolerant than the Dominican species.

C. alba

C. baileyana

C. berteroana (dead)

C. cowellii (very small and was protected)

C. curtissii

C ekmanii (severe defoliation)

C. fallaense

C. glabrescens

C. hospita

C. macroglossa (no damage)

C. rigida (very small and was protected)

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

All of my Copernicia (listed below) survived 26F in January 2010 except for C. berterona. The coldest night was accompanied by one night at 27F and another at 29F so it was a 3 night event. I've found the Cuban species to be considerably more cold tolerant than the Dominican species.

C. alba

C. baileyana

C. berteroana (dead)

C. cowellii (very small and was protected)

C. curtissii

C ekmanii (severe defoliation)

C. fallaense

C. glabrescens

C. hospita

C. macroglossa (no damage)

C. rigida (very small and was protected)

Talk about instant gratification, thanks guys, just what I was looking for. Keep the data comin'.

[BigBpalms]

I lost three others that same winter ray was talking about - three nights at 22 degrees I lost C. Prunifera(with about a foot of trunk), macroglossa, and rigida

[Geoff]

I think the California list will be markedly different from the Florida list, so careful making assumptions based on what survives on the other side of the country... most of those Copernicia will never survive your climate, or almost any climate in California (there are some nice exceptions, like Palm Springs and a few perfect spots in San Diego County). But I can tell you C alba does well here (some doubt this is a different species than C prunifera), C baileyana, gigas and falllense have surprising hardiness (though incredibly slow), C glaubrescens ekes along in California, and in some of the above microclimates growers can sort of grow most of those others (not seen a happy cowellii in California, yet).

[stygiana]

I think the California list will be markedly different from the Florida list, so careful making assumptions based on what survives on the other side of the country... most of those Copernicia will never survive your climate, or almost any climate in California (there are some nice exceptions, like Palm Springs and a few perfect spots in San Diego County). But I can tell you C alba does well here (some doubt this is a different species than C prunifera), C baileyana, gigas and falllense have surprising hardiness (though incredibly slow), C glaubrescens ekes along in California, and in some of the above microclimates growers can sort of grow most of those others (not seen a happy cowellii in California, yet).

Bingo!

Many Copernicias are heat lovers. They need long, very long and hot, very hot (including at night) summers to grow well. I cannot say my baileyanas (and others) are fast, but I can most definitely tell you that they are at least twice as fast as a friend of mine's in Portugal, where the climate is very similar to yours in Cali.

Same thing with Pseudophoenix.

I could be wrong, but the only common and quite dependable Copernicia I saw in Mediterranean climate in Europe is C. alba. it looks perfect and happy and grows reasonably well even in areas where summers are far from being as long and hot as Florida's, and where, even if forst is not severe, winter days are rather on the cool side.

I agree with Goeff on the fact that C. baileyana has surprising hardiness and does pretty well in Mediterranean climes. But you have to be patient. Very patient.

I still think it's worth a try for you guys: one can only love this palm.

Sebastian

[John in Andalucia]

Copernica alba is definitely a hit in Europe, and not limited to the Mediterranean. Of the few palms that UK growers will experiment with growing, C. alba is on that list.

[SanDimas]

I agree.

I have a C. baileyna in a gallon pot here in SoCal.

Spear growth through winter and opened in spring.

It is my sloooowest grower but again I have a Becarriophoenix(gallon size)

that's almost as slow in growth and a Ravenea sambiranensis(5gallon) that has not, up to now, shown any growth in terms of a spear.

But again it depends what you mean by growth?

Vertical with a spear? Root development? Thicker trunk development?

It seems healthy and tough, but again, it has not died like some Id rather forget.

I would like to try C. falaense now.

Happy growing everyone!

Ritchy

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I think the California list will be markedly different from the Florida list, so careful making assumptions based on what survives on the other side of the country... most of those Copernicia will never survive your climate, or almost any climate in California (there are some nice exceptions, like Palm Springs and a few perfect spots in San Diego County). But I can tell you C alba does well here (some doubt this is a different species than C prunifera), C baileyana, gigas and falllense have surprising hardiness (though incredibly slow), C glaubrescens ekes along in California, and in some of the above microclimates growers can sort of grow most of those others (not seen a happy cowellii in California, yet).

This is pretty much the version of truth about copernicias that is published both in Dave's Garden and in the Socal Palm book. Most of it is accurate but perhaps not entirely. Mostly, the hardiness ratings appear to be too conservative, but then even Sunset guide is conservative with that sort of thing. Both prunifera and alba - two very distinct looking palms that don't look like they are the same species - appear to be hardy to about 25F and then some based on both California and Florida reports. I don't think the limiting factor for most copernicias in California is the Summer heat, there's plenty of it. They're slow as seedlings but they speed up quite a bit as they get older. I didn't bother with seedlings, rather I started with field grown 15g and larger from Socal. They're slow in California probably because there's only about 3 months during the year when it's hot enough for them to grow fast continuously. c. alba and c. prunifera seem to be the only ones tolerant of extended Winter chill (32-45F) but the others not so much. The trick is to find which copernicias that can in fact take Winter chill in Mediterranean climates, if there are any at all besides alba and prunifera. Joe of Discovery Island Palms lost his C. baileyana to Winter dampness, it never got cold enough to cause any freeze damage.

I don't think plants are magically hardier in Florida than they are in California. It's actually usually the other way. California's chill in the Winter hardens off many plants. But on the other hand, plants that don't have any chill tolerance will not do well in many place in California except for those really warm spots right on the Socal coast where it just doesn't get much below 45F.

From what I've read, c. alba and c. prunifera both score well with freeze and chill. C. baileyana may be freeze tolerant but probably very little chill tolerance. But if we throw all of the rest of the copernicias into the same bucket, we'll never know what could actually work where. People should continue to try these out and see what happens.

I am going to try to take some photos of my prunifera and my alba to show how they are quite distinct. prunifera has narrower leaves, much more star-shaped, alba has broader more papery leaves. They look different to me.

I would love to try some other copernicias. Does hospita tolerate any chill?

[Geoff]

I never said summer heat was a limiting factor.. .but year round heat is. Winters in Florida may be cold now and then, but they are WAY hotter than they are in So Cal. California winters are cool and sloggy, rarely hot save a weird heat wave now and then... this is murder to many plant species that Floridians in the same zones (USDA) seem to have no trouble with. For example, coconuts shoot up and many survive zone 9b in Florida... not a one in California at that zone... not even a 10a that I am aware of. Same for a lot of these Copernicias, as well as Coryphas, another hater of cool winters. But try anyway... maybe you will discover something that can make it through a cool winter.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I never said summer heat was a limiting factor.. .but year round heat is. Winters in Florida may be cold now and then, but they are WAY hotter than they are in So Cal. California winters are cool and sloggy, rarely hot save a weird heat wave now and then... this is murder to many plant species that Floridians in the same zones (USDA) seem to have no trouble with. For example, coconuts shoot up and many survive zone 9b in Florida... not a one in California at that zone... not even a 10a that I am aware of. Same for a lot of these Copernicias, as well as Coryphas, another hater of cool winters. But try anyway... maybe you will discover something that can make it through a cool winter.

What you say makes sense. I am just curious if there are any other copernicia that could make it through a cool Winter.

I will post some pics of the prunifera versus alba, I don't get why the ones I have are so different.

[sonoranfans]

I never said summer heat was a limiting factor.. .but year round heat is. Winters in Florida may be cold now and then, but they are WAY hotter than they are in So Cal. California winters are cool and sloggy, rarely hot save a weird heat wave now and then... this is murder to many plant species that Floridians in the same zones (USDA) seem to have no trouble with. For example, coconuts shoot up and many survive zone 9b in Florida... not a one in California at that zone... not even a 10a that I am aware of. Same for a lot of these Copernicias, as well as Coryphas, another hater of cool winters. But try anyway... maybe you will discover something that can make it through a cool winter.

I'm living/working in Laguna Niguel, orange county(10a/b) and I have a house in tampa bay area(9b/10a) where I lived for 3 years. I can back up what Geoff says about the climate difference, it really surprised me. The winters here in OC are long, foggy, and cool, and the overnight dips, even in may, get into the 50's and take quite a while to warm up anywhere near the coast. I'd say 9b/10a tampa averages 10-12F+ warmer in overnight lows with a much faster warm up in typically sunny spring morning. Its not surprising that many palms are so much slower growing here. As far as copernicias, some will grow here, but they are easy and not so slow in florida. I planted a struggling bailey hybrid(grown in deep shade) 15 gallon with 3 fans barely as big as my hands(8"?) 2 years ago. today it has (5) 2' fans and a big spear about to open, and its rate of growth is increasing. By the way, a bailey will not be fast in ANY container 15 gallons or under. the first thing they do is put down a huge root system and they cant do that in a nursery container.

Edited May 22, 2013 by sonoranfans

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I never said summer heat was a limiting factor.. .but year round heat is. Winters in Florida may be cold now and then, but they are WAY hotter than they are in So Cal. California winters are cool and sloggy, rarely hot save a weird heat wave now and then... this is murder to many plant species that Floridians in the same zones (USDA) seem to have no trouble with. For example, coconuts shoot up and many survive zone 9b in Florida... not a one in California at that zone... not even a 10a that I am aware of. Same for a lot of these Copernicias, as well as Coryphas, another hater of cool winters. But try anyway... maybe you will discover something that can make it through a cool winter.

I'm living/working in Laguna Niguel, orange county(10a/b) and I have a house in tampa bay area(9b/10a) where I lived for 3 years. I can back up what Geoff says about the climate difference, it really surprised me. The winters here in OC are long, foggy, and cool, and the overnight dips, even in may, get into the 50's and take quite a while to warm up anywhere near the coast. I'd say 9b/10a tampa averages 10-12F+ warmer in overnight lows with a much faster warm up in typically sunny spring morning. Its not surprising that many palms are so much slower growing here. As far as copernicias, some will grow here, but they are easy and not so slow in florida. I planted a struggling bailey hybrid(grown in deep shade) 15 gallon with 3 fans barely as big as my hands(8"?) 2 years ago. today it has (5) 2' fans and a big spear about to open, and its rate of growth is increasing. By the way, a bailey will not be fast in ANY container 15 gallons or under. the first thing they do is put down a huge root system and they cant do that in a nursery container.

Yes, I get the climate differences. Some of us like the cool nights. But wait, I am confused, where do you actually grow palms? Laguna Niguel, Tampa Bay or Arizona?

I've always understood the differences between lowland tropical and highland tropical, the latter which actually gets generally pulled into the "Mediterranean" bucket even if it's moist Cloudforest. That's why I usually won't try any lowland tropical species and this is why it took me years before I even tried something like chamberyonia macrocarpa, as I thought it was a no go in Central California. When my 2 strap seedling from a sleeve took off and grew into a larger plant and started to grow through the Winter after a few years, I realized it was time to throw out the old assumption that all lowland tropical species wouldn't work.

Anyway, I went and looked at both the copernicia alba and the prunifera, they actually look quite similar, similar enough that I get why they are considered to probably be the same species. They just look different because one is sun grown and the other one is shade grown, giving them very different looks.

[SanDimas]

I never said summer heat was a limiting factor.. .but year round heat is. Winters in Florida may be cold now and then, but they are WAY hotter than they are in So Cal. California winters are cool and sloggy, rarely hot save a weird heat wave now and then... this is murder to many plant species that Floridians in the same zones (USDA) seem to have no trouble with. For example, coconuts shoot up and many survive zone 9b in Florida... not a one in California at that zone... not even a 10a that I am aware of. Same for a lot of these Copernicias, as well as Coryphas, another hater of cool winters. But try anyway... maybe you will discover something that can make it through a cool winter.

I'm living/working in Laguna Niguel, orange county(10a/b) and I have a house in tampa bay area(9b/10a) where I lived for 3 years. I can back up what Geoff says about the climate difference, it really surprised me. The winters here in OC are long, foggy, and cool, and the overnight dips, even in may, get into the 50's and take quite a while to warm up anywhere near the coast. I'd say 9b/10a tampa averages 10-12F+ warmer in overnight lows with a much faster warm up in typically sunny spring morning. Its not surprising that many palms are so much slower growing here. As far as copernicias, some will grow here, but they are easy and not so slow in florida. I planted a struggling bailey hybrid(grown in deep shade) 15 gallon with 3 fans barely as big as my hands(8"?) 2 years ago. today it has (5) 2' fans and a big spear about to open, and its rate of growth is increasing. By the way, a bailey will not be fast in ANY container 15 gallons or under. the first thing they do is put down a huge root system and they cant do that in a nursery container.

Sonoranfans, thank you for the tips.

Theres another thread here started by Mandrew on the giant Copernicia gigas and fallaensis.

Anyone else here in SoCal with success on these?

Im a fan of all the giant palms that can be grown in the genus Ravenea and Dypsis.

Cheers.Ritchy

[sonoranfans]

I never said summer heat was a limiting factor.. .but year round heat is. Winters in Florida may be cold now and then, but they are WAY hotter than they are in So Cal. California winters are cool and sloggy, rarely hot save a weird heat wave now and then... this is murder to many plant species that Floridians in the same zones (USDA) seem to have no trouble with. For example, coconuts shoot up and many survive zone 9b in Florida... not a one in California at that zone... not even a 10a that I am aware of. Same for a lot of these Copernicias, as well as Coryphas, another hater of cool winters. But try anyway... maybe you will discover something that can make it through a cool winter.

I'm living/working in Laguna Niguel, orange county(10a/b) and I have a house in tampa bay area(9b/10a) where I lived for 3 years. I can back up what Geoff says about the climate difference, it really surprised me. The winters here in OC are long, foggy, and cool, and the overnight dips, even in may, get into the 50's and take quite a while to warm up anywhere near the coast. I'd say 9b/10a tampa averages 10-12F+ warmer in overnight lows with a much faster warm up in typically sunny spring morning. Its not surprising that many palms are so much slower growing here. As far as copernicias, some will grow here, but they are easy and not so slow in florida. I planted a struggling bailey hybrid(grown in deep shade) 15 gallon with 3 fans barely as big as my hands(8"?) 2 years ago. today it has (5) 2' fans and a big spear about to open, and its rate of growth is increasing. By the way, a bailey will not be fast in ANY container 15 gallons or under. the first thing they do is put down a huge root system and they cant do that in a nursery container.

Yes, I get the climate differences. Some of us like the cool nights. But wait, I am confused, where do you actually grow palms? Laguna Niguel, Tampa Bay or Arizona?

I've always understood the differences between lowland tropical and highland tropical, the latter which actually gets generally pulled into the "Mediterranean" bucket even if it's moist Cloudforest. That's why I usually won't try any lowland tropical species and this is why it took me years before I even tried something like chamberyonia macrocarpa, as I thought it was a no go in Central California. When my 2 strap seedling from a sleeve took off and grew into a larger plant and started to grow through the Winter after a few years, I realized it was time to throw out the old assumption that all lowland tropical species wouldn't work.

Anyway, I went and looked at both the copernicia alba and the prunifera, they actually look quite similar, similar enough that I get why they are considered to probably be the same species. They just look different because one is sun grown and the other one is shade grown, giving them very different looks.

Axel,

I grew palms in Arizona for 7+ years moved to florida a little over 3 1/2 years ago where I have a house with lots of palms(70?). I am now working remotely in Socal(renting but I have some seedlings). Additionally, I lived and worked in the bay area for a year so I have lived in san jose and santa cruz weather. the weather I like and what palms like are not necessarily the same thing. In florida my palms are happiest in the wet season, a season that I like the least. I also understand that many species of palms can grow well in Socal and not in Florida(Kentias, dypsis sp, etc).

Edited May 23, 2013 by sonoranfans

[nomolos]

Any Copernicia take cool winters like in San Fransisco

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Any Copernicia take cool winters like in San Fransisco

Thanks for the insight. I hope you're right. I get a lot more Winter heat than SF, winter average high is about 68F due to the terrain, slope facing towards equator, sheltered from sea breezes. But when it rains, it rains more here because of the slope.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

OK, so 26F came and went in the frost pit part of my garden, copernicia alba, copernicia prunifera, copernicia bailayana all came through unscathed, no damage even after a week of 70-80F temps. We had a couple of days at 84F earlier in the week and still no sign of damage. Warm enough to get bismarckia to resume growth. new spear is continuing to emerge on bailayana.

Only casualty is a 2 inch 2 leaved copernicia hospita seedling in the ground that I actually protected with shredded newspaper. The same sized one in the ground on my hillside is still fine. I think it's dumb for me to have planted those in the ground. Oh well, I still have a few potted ones, but one of the potted ones already croaked as well. Given it's not even January I think these will all be toast be the end of Winter unless I bring them inside.

[_Keith]

My C. alba pouted just a tad at 31 a few weeks ago. They will see that temp again in a couple of days. We shall see.

[Cikas]

I did not know that Copernica baileyna can survive such low temperatures.

I must try one.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Cikas

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

On December 21, 2013 at 4:37:30 PM, Brahea Axel said:

OK, so 26F came and went in the frost pit part of my garden, copernicia alba, copernicia prunifera, copernicia bailayana all came through unscathed, no damage even after a week of 70-80F temps. We had a couple of days at 84F earlier in the week and still no sign of damage. Warm enough to get bismarckia to resume growth. new spear is continuing to emerge on bailayana.

 

Only casualty is a 2 inch 2 leaved copernicia hospita seedling in the ground that I actually protected with shredded newspaper. The same sized one in the ground on my hillside is still fine. I think it's dumb for me to have planted those in the ground. Oh well, I still have a few potted ones, but one of the potted ones already croaked as well. Given it's not even January I think these will all be toast be the end of Winter unless I bring them inside.

Axel, any Copernicia updates?  Just curious how the copnernicia updates?

[Tom in Tucson]

5 hours ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Axel, any Copernicia updates?  Just curious how the copnernicia updates?

Keith, Axel was (in the old chat board) classified in a category called 'Stumphead'. So don't hold your breath waiting for his answer.

Tom Birt - Casas Adobes, AZ

Hi 92°, Lo 54°
 

[mcrawford]

I've had a Copernicia alba in place for 12 yrs and it has seen freezing temps every winter.

Last Jan it got 26 twice.  Previously, it has twice seen 22F.  I think an important difference

with central Arizona freezes is it warms up by mid AM.  There is likely just 6-8 hrs of really

cold, as opposed to sustained cold.  I live on the side of a mountain, which also lets the

cold air drain down slope to my neighbors property instead.

[JubaeaMan138]

Any updates on any so cal baileyanas. Just curious as we approach winter and things start cooling off. Mine pushed 4 leaves in a matter of months since I dropped it in the ground