pritchardia hillebrandii on the Central Coast of California

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I am thoroughly impressed by the performance of pritchardia hillebrandii up here. Luen of Monterey Bay Nursery gave this to me to try out several years ago as a "it has died for everyone, see how it does for you" sort of thing. Not the most hopeful of endorsement, but this thing keeps on pushing new fronds all year around. It doesn't like it when it gets down near 32F, there's usually little spots that become visible on the older fronds, but it always manages to pull through, and it's getting more and more robust. And it's a fast bugger. What's strange is that it hasn't yet lost any fronds, it just keeps making more and more and they're getting bigger and bigger. Anyone else growing this along the refrigerator of a coast we call the Central Coast of California?

Based on the performance of this bugger, I decided to go for it and I decided to add p. munroii, p. beccariana, and p. remota. I also decided to add a blue form of p. hildebrandii as well.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Now, don't you all reply all at once... echo... What happened to all the Norcal and Central Cal palm growers? I guess if it ain't dypsis then who cares.

[Phoenikakias]

I' d love to help but I am from another continent, so that any information I give you might prove inaccurate in your particular microclimate even if the general climate is similiar. If nevertheless you wish those information I am ready!

[Kim]

I always had the impression this is the hardiest of the Pritchardia, but don't know how far north they are growing. Have you tried P. beccariana?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I always had the impression this is the hardiest of the Pritchardia, but don't know how far north they are growing. Have you tried P. beccariana?

I picked up a p. beccariana this year from Jeff Marcus but I don't know if it's the highland form with the bigger seed that grows higher up. I find that p. hildebrandii is a fast grower in cool temperatures, but it gets spots on it when the temp drops to near freezing, not even below freezing. It seems to happen less and less as the palm gets bigger, so perhaps when the roots are deep enough it will do much better. I am switching to deep watering on it this year to try to drive the roots down lower.

[Stevetoad]

I always had the impression this is the hardiest of the Pritchardia, but don't know how far north they are growing. Have you tried P. beccariana?

I picked up a p. beccariana this year from Jeff Marcus but I don't know if it's the highland form with the bigger seed that grows higher up. I find that p. hildebrandii is a fast grower in cool temperatures, but it gets spots on it when the temp drops to near freezing, not even below freezing. It seems to happen less and less as the palm gets bigger, so perhaps when the roots are deep enough it will do much better. I am switching to deep watering on it this year to try to drive the roots down lower.

your right about the older they get the less cold damage they show (atleast from what ive seen). i have one that is fully exposed and its first winter totaly defloiated. next winter burned about 50% this year which was colder than the past 2 it hardly shows any damage. the other i have in full shade with canopy grows faster and shows zero damage. keep in mind i hit 26f out in the open. the one i have in shade looks better too. bigger flatter leaves. great palm for me!

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I always had the impression this is the hardiest of the Pritchardia, but don't know how far north they are growing. Have you tried P. beccariana?

I picked up a p. beccariana this year from Jeff Marcus but I don't know if it's the highland form with the bigger seed that grows higher up. I find that p. hildebrandii is a fast grower in cool temperatures, but it gets spots on it when the temp drops to near freezing, not even below freezing. It seems to happen less and less as the palm gets bigger, so perhaps when the roots are deep enough it will do much better. I am switching to deep watering on it this year to try to drive the roots down lower.

your right about the older they get the less cold damage they show (atleast from what ive seen). i have one that is fully exposed and its first winter totaly defloiated. next winter burned about 50% this year which was colder than the past 2 it hardly shows any damage. the other i have in full shade with canopy grows faster and shows zero damage. keep in mind i hit 26f out in the open. the one i have in shade looks better too. bigger flatter leaves. great palm for me!

The Loulu bible talks of pritchardia giffordiana which looks just like p. beccariana but is much larger and grows as high as 4,200 feet elevation where it's definitely colder. This species was demoted to just a variation of p. beccariana, the claim being that any p. beccariana grown at that elevation would automatically be bigger. Some people still refer to it as p. beccariana var. giffordiana.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I like the orangy green of pritchardia hildebrandii but the darker glossy green of pritchardia minor is cool! Take a look at this one growing in San Francisco:

[SanDimas]

One of the few fan Palms I have besides the W. Robusta is the P. Forbesiana from JD Andersen. Oh yes I have 2Brahea armata I rescued from a Palmtalk member. All growing robustly even thru our past winter.

Whats good about my Pritchy is it has no teeth 2get bitten with.

Cheers.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Axel, I have had a P. hildebrandii in the grownd in a mostly shaded area under a large P. canariensis for a few years and it's slow but steady and doesn't mind our winters at all.

[JasonD]

Axel, is that photo by me or Jared? It's the best one yet. The P. minor has been steady and flawless from the start in his Mission District garden, and a little quart-size seedling companion planted four years ago has held on through minimal care. Besides the deep-green coloration, it has bronzy-silver continuous scales on the abaxial leaf surfaces, as well as tomentum on the petioles. It's the most beautiful fan palm in SF, IMHO.

My feeling is that P. minor is a pretty reliable species in Sunset zone 17 where it can be protected from frost and kept well-irrigated. Darold Petty has grown it through some major frosts, fungal infections, and mechanical trauma.

The other species from a similar-altitude habitat (~4000ft ASL) are P. beccariana (I've collected seeds at 4000ft ASL in a 62F drizzle at 6pm in August), P. arecina, and P. lanigera.

We've been successful with Pritchardia hillebrandii and P. remota in containers here at Flora Grubb Gardens. I killed a P. remota in my own garden by planting in the ground, but my garden's pretty chilly.

Jeff Marcus told me when I asked a couple of years back that his P. beccariana are not from the higher-altitude population because he does not believe that seed from the extremes of the species' range makes a difference.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel, is that photo by me or Jared? It's the best one yet. The P. minor has been steady and flawless from the start in his Mission District garden, and a little quart-size seedling companion planted four years ago has held on through minimal care. Besides the deep-green coloration, it has bronzy-silver continuous scales on the abaxial leaf surfaces, as well as tomentum on the petioles. It's the most beautiful fan palm in SF, IMHO.

My feeling is that P. minor is a pretty reliable species in Sunset zone 17 where it can be protected from frost and kept well-irrigated. Darold Petty has grown it through some major frosts, fungal infections, and mechanical trauma.

The other species from a similar-altitude habitat (~4000ft ASL) are P. beccariana (I've collected seeds at 4000ft ASL in a 62F drizzle at 6pm in August), P. arecina, and P. lanigera.

We've been successful with Pritchardia hillebrandii and P. remota in containers here at Flora Grubb Gardens. I killed a P. remota in my own garden by planting in the ground, but my garden's pretty chilly.

Jeff Marcus told me when I asked a couple of years back that his P. beccariana are not from the higher-altitude population because he does not believe that seed from the extremes of the species' range makes a difference.

I followed your instructions to search Fickr for Jason Pritchardia and this came up but not from your photo stream. I don't know who took it, lost track of where this came from. It does look spectacular.

Did your seeds collected at 4000 feet ever grow into something? I was hoping that there really isn't a difference genetically in the seeds between the stand at 4,000 feet and Jeff's plants. We'll see how Jeff's version grows for me.

BTW, Darold finally yanked his p. minor, he says he's done after two attempts. His seem to succumb to fungus.

[LJG]

Beccariana var. giffordiana is a massive Pritchardia. Large leaves, trunk and seed with slower growth than standard Beccariana. Mardy has one in his garden he collected the seed for himself. I will get a pic next time there.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Beccariana var. giffordiana is a massive Pritchardia. Large leaves, trunk and seed with slower growth than standard Beccariana. Mardy has one in his garden he collected the seed for himself. I will get a pic next time there.

The pritchardia bible and Jeff Marcus both say that the large leaves, large trunk and large seed are a product of the location of the palm, not the genetics. In other words, if you took some seed from beccariana from other locations and planted them up there where the giffordiana live, then those would end up looking identical. That's the reason giffordiana wasn't given its own species name. The only way to prove or disprove this is to actually grow both side by side in the same location and see if they actually do look different when grown in the exact same location. Since I have an offspring from Jeff's tree, I hope the literature is correct.

[LJG]

Well theory is one thing and reality can be another thing. Mardy has both and Giffordiana is bigger and easily noticeable. No clue if this is a norm or anomaly as I have only seen these two subsets together in one garden.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Well theory is one thing and reality can be another thing. Mardy has both and Giffordiana is bigger and easily noticeable. No clue if this is a norm or anomaly as I have only seen these two subsets together in one garden.

If they are growing side by side then it's pretty clear, isn't it? Granted it's only one data point and you would need some repetition to be completely scientific about it but I'd take the one data point as a good enough clue. They have to be genetically different and should be distinct species. Too bad Giffordiana is only available to those who collect seed on their own.

[Stevetoad]

Well theory is one thing and reality can be another thing. Mardy has both and Giffordiana is bigger and easily noticeable. No clue if this is a norm or anomaly as I have only seen these two subsets together in one garden.

what island is this one native to? im going to hawaii in a few weeks so maybe some seeds could fall into my pocket

[LJG]

Big Island Steve. Good luck man, I heard it is not for the faint of heart to get this seed. Hopefully Mardy's plant has seed soon.

[JasonD]

Here's a data point: It's giffArdiana, not giffordiana: http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-165526.

[Kainoa]

Aloha you all! I realize this thread was active quite a long time ago and not sure how active everyone is on here. Kind of a random question but hoping you all might have an answer or suggestions for me!

I am coming out to Pebble Beach in a week and a half for the Pebble Beach Food & Wine Festival. Coming with a group from the Grand Wailea to serve some innovative Hawaii and Hawaiian food and as part of that I want to build a "temporary" Hawaiian Hale (thatched hut) as part of our decor.

What we call Loulu, Prichardia varieties, is what we use for the roof thatching.  Is there anyone in this thread or outside of this thread that might know of some Prichardia varieties in that area (Pebble Beach, Monterey, Salinas, etc) who have leaves to gather? 

Thank you for any help you might be able to provide! Aloha to you all.

[Kim]

Just out of curiosity (I am way far south) how many leaves would be needed? I wonder if the cut flower trade in Hawaii could ship them for you? Many more Pritchardia in Hawaii than northern California, that's for sure.

Here in San Diego you could probably harvest Washingtonia as a reasonable substitute.

 

[Kainoa]

Aloha Kim! (I lived in San Diego for two years, love it down there!)

Well for a real traditional hale we lash one leaf every 6 inches. this gives them enough overlap side to side and top to bottom to make it as waterproof as a modern roof! But for this I would scale it back to as little as needed to save me time...and it doesn't need to be waterproof either of course  I probably need around 100 leaves, give or take.

 

I was thinking about shipping them too, but was concerned about the Agricultural checks or transporting unwanted pests

 

[Matt in OC]

On 5/10/2013, 3:05:01, Brahea Axel said:

I like the orangy green of pritchardia hildebrandii but the darker glossy green of pritchardia minor is cool! Take a look at this one growing in San Francisco:

 

This doesn’t look like minor to me. 

[Kim]

3 hours ago, Kainoa said:

Aloha Kim! (I lived in San Diego for two years, love it down there!)

Well for a real traditional hale we lash one leaf every 6 inches. this gives them enough overlap side to side and top to bottom to make it as waterproof as a modern roof! But for this I would scale it back to as little as needed to save me time...and it doesn't need to be waterproof either of course  I probably need around 100 leaves, give or take.

 

I was thinking about shipping them too, but was concerned about the Agricultural checks or transporting unwanted pests

 

 I am afraid collecting 100 Pritchardia leaves would clean out all the botanical and private gardens in the northern counties!  Can you work with Phoenix canariensis? They are more abundant --and larger fronds, though pinnate.  Aerial views of the Pebble Beach area don't reveal much in the way of palminess.

Those who ship flowers commercially know all the rules and how to comply -- worth a few phone calls to ask about "greenery".

Another option, synthetic thatch: http://www.palapastructures.com/opaccessories/syntheticthatch.htm

[richnorm]

3 hours ago, Matt in OC said:

This doesn’t look like minor to me. 

Agree

[Kainoa]

Thank you Kim! Yes, I am realizing looking at all of your pictures that most of the trees shown are still young. Of course I'm used to seeing older, mature trees with many leaves. And I'm not sure what varieties they are exactly but the varieties that "hold" their old leaves are the ones we tend to use for thatching. You can sometime gather 100 leaves off of a single tree by removing them up to the crown. Well thank you so much for your quick and friendly responses  

[Stevetoad]

1 hour ago, Kainoa said:

Thank you Kim! Yes, I am realizing looking at all of your pictures that most of the trees shown are still young. Of course I'm used to seeing older, mature trees with many leaves. And I'm not sure what varieties they are exactly but the varieties that "hold" their old leaves are the ones we tend to use for thatching. You can sometime gather 100 leaves off of a single tree by removing them up to the crown. Well thank you so much for your quick and friendly responses  

I think your best bet is looking into washingtonia like Kim said. Leaves are very close to the same. In fact if I’m remembering correctly washingtonia and Pritchardia were in the same family at one time. They hold onto there old leaves forever and one tree could give you all you need. 

[Jesse]

I agree with using the Washingtonia leaves.  They will look almost identical on a Hale and you might find that you are praised for using local resources instead of importing loulu leaves (Which I say with the assumption that there are not enough local loulu leaves). I have heard Hawaiian stories that describe how it was very important to use local resources instead of imported goods. Either way,  I think it's a really cool thing your doing and please post some pictures when your done!

 

 

[Kainoa]

thanks Jesse! Well yeah that's exactly what I was thinking and hoping for! I really want to use local stuff and you guys (everyone I've spoken with about this out there) has just been awesome in trying to point me in the right direction. I was able to connect with a tree service that has some logs for the posts and rafters cut  from a property in Salinas. I'm bring out the coconut sennit for lashing...but I haven't found anyone with a bunch of leaves yet. 

Who knows, I might just be knocking on doors and climbing some trees next week!

Thank you all and if you happen to think of anyone in that area that might be able to help I'd be much appreciated. I'm going to start calling a few more nurseries in the area.

 

Aloha!