What are the heat requirements for Jubaeopsis caffra and Dypsis decipiens?

[Palm crazy]

Can these two palms grow in a cool summer climate, but with cold winters every year?

I was thinking of trying both with greenhouse cover in winter for warmth and rain protection.

How have they done in cooler summer climates, anyone?

Will they grow with only three months of high 70’s low 80’s? Dead of winter is only low 40’s for highs for me.

Thanks.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Your limiting factor is going to be your short growing season and your Winter lows. Jubaeopsis caffra is hardy to 22-25F only in a dry desert climate where temperatures are below freezing only during the night. Same with dypsis decipiens. I wouldn't get too over-confident because the Pacific Northwest had a mild Winter this year. An average Pacific Northwest cold spell will take these out in a heartbeat.

Three months of high 70's to low 80's isn't going to cut it. Both species are slow as snails in California and need a good long growing season to even be viable. They need a lot of light, 47N latitude with predominant overcast weather is not going to give you the light needed to get much growth on these plants. They're even borderline palms in parts of the Bay area due to lack of heat.

But nothing is impossible given enough effort like a year-round greenhouse that's heated at least during your freezes and that gets into the 90's during your sunny days when the sun has a high enough angle.

[MattyB]

I know Dypsis decipiens grows fine here on the coast, which is cool all year round. Those multiple days at low 40's sounds like it'll be your problem. That's when you're gonna want to keep it dry.

[trioderob]

the J.C. like it very hot and long summers (85-90)

the D.D like it cooler (high70s)

not good palms for your area - at all

you could try the D.D. but I would not bother with the J.C.

(if you have well draining soil only)

you would be amazed how even in san diego being 5 miles inland makes the palms grow night and day faster than on the coast.

even here they are slow - now you are moving them 1000 miles north.

Edited April 2, 2013 by trioderob

[Gtlevine]

I have both species and they are big palms now with a lot of trunk. Dypsis decipians can probably grow for you, they are quite hardy. Jubaeopsis Caffra is very sensitive, it does not like temperatures below 30F. It will take temperatures lower than that, but the palm will look like crap. It also likes a lot of heat for a long growing season. From what you described I would not bother with Jubaeaopsis Caffra. Gary

[Palm crazy]

Thanks for bringing me back to reality guys. Yeah I thought it might be to much wishful thinking for my area…LOL!

Last weekend it was nice and in the low 70’s so me and a friend drove to http://www.cistus.com and they had the palms for sale [5 gallons] but were label for sunset 17, [sometimes I wonder about those guys].

I will leave the J.C. for you guys down in Socali, they also had some small Rhopalostylis baueri [5 gallons] for a good price I thought that one would be good as indoor/out palm or I could plant it and put a little greenhouse over it [with some heat] from November - May. My garden is so full with new stuff I really have no room to put a small pop up green house, So I may just get a 5 gallon Jubaea and call it good.

Axel is right it does get very cold here and the winters are very long and dark, etc. Been really lucky the last two winters nearly 9b. Most winter for me are cold 8b.

Last thing I need is more tender plants, so Thanks everyone!

Roger.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Palm crazy

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Roger, I am trying jubaeopsis caffra here in the Santa Cruz mountains. We get hot but nights stay cool year around. It's in the hottest part of the garden. We do get into the 80's a few times during the Winter, but we also get a few days during the winter where the temp stays below 50F during cold rain events. We'll see if it can handle a lot of Winter chill.

[Phoenikakias]

Roger, I am trying jubaeopsis caffra here in the Santa Cruz mountains. We get hot but nights stay cool year around. It's in the hottest part of the garden. We do get into the 80's a few times during the Winter, but we also get a few days during the winter where the temp stays below 50F during cold rain events. We'll see if it can handle a lot of Winter chill.

Axel, what are the results so far regarding your outplanted JC? How many winters has it up to now experienced outplanted? Any pics? I will post pics of mine still growing in pots in a cold frame with windows always open (meaning that durind cloudy and chilly days plants are only protected from wind. The only novelty about their cultivation is the exclusive use of pumice as medium. They even grow (slowly though) in the mid of winter.

[richnorm]

Both these grow well for me at an annual average temperature of 15c-16c but are slow. I would be staggered if they could cope with average temperatures of only 10c and periods of proper cold, that's a massive climate difference. But I have plants doing well which I was advised not to try.....

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Both these grow well for me at an annual average temperature of 15c-16c but are slow. I would be staggered if they could cope with average temperatures of only 10c and periods of proper cold, that's a massive climate difference. But I have plants doing well which I was advised not to try.....

That's great news for me since your climate is very close to mine. But I also agree, growing these in the PNW is really pushing the limit. These palms are like molasses in my climate. To me, the ultimate adaptability test is if a palm can produce seed in a specific climate. The d. decipiens has potential to be able to seed, but I think the j. caffra is out of its range to produce viable seed at least in my spot.

Roger, I am trying jubaeopsis caffra here in the Santa Cruz mountains. We get hot but nights stay cool year around. It's in the hottest part of the garden. We do get into the 80's a few times during the Winter, but we also get a few days during the winter where the temp stays below 50F during cold rain events. We'll see if it can handle a lot of Winter chill.

Axel, what are the results so far regarding your outplanted JC? How many winters has it up to now experienced outplanted? Any pics? I will post pics of mine still growing in pots in a cold frame with windows always open (meaning that durind cloudy and chilly days plants are only protected from wind. The only novelty about their cultivation is the exclusive use of pumice as medium. They even grow (slowly though) in the mid of winter.

I will post pictures soon. I don't keep in palms in pots as I've discovered that potted palms loose about a half zone of hardiness. Outplanted specimens always have the best chance of success, unless you have a large heated greenhouse where you can over-Winter potted palms. I don't have such luxury. But I have considered tenting my j. caffra to get it to cook and get established faster. I may even tent my bismarck at some point after it's had a chance to establish a good root mass.

[Phoenikakias]

I do not not mean also to keep my 4 Jubaeopsis eternally in pots. But in my latitude (37,81 N) I do not need also a greenhouse to raise JC from seedlings to outplantanble size. Just a simple cold frame facing south and the proper medium. With latter this sp is one of the easiest to grow.

[Phoenikakias]

This one is the first to have been repotted from liner directly to a large pot. Now it is well rooted (I can lift the whole pot by catching hold of plant by the stem). Next two have been repotted from smaller intermediate pots to same large ones last summer. By the end of comming summer they will also become rootbound. This last one was the weakest exemplary from the beginning so it has spent more time to a smaller pot and got repotted only last fall. But it has also started to root well in the large pot.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Phoenikakias, those are beautiful specimens, liberate them by planting them in the ground. They are hardy, there's no reason to keep them in pots anymore. I planted mine in the ground at that size.

[Phoenikakias]

The first one is already programmed to be outplanted in late spring. Thanks to Mr Bradford I now have the complete recipe to take plant out of the pot without root disturbance. I will however improvise some kind of steadier shelter (shade cloth is not possible in my windy area) for the first couple years of establishment. To be honest the shelter-idea is complete in my mind, it remains to be proven also effective. After all improvisation and experimentation is part of the hobby.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The first one is already programmed to be outplanted in late spring. Thanks to Mr Bradford I now have the complete recipe to take plant out of the pot without root disturbance. I will however improvise some kind of steadier shelter (shade cloth is not possible in my windy area) for the first couple years of establishment. To be honest the shelter-idea is complete in my mind, it remains to be proven also effective. After all improvisation and experimentation is part of the hobby.

Why are you worried about root disturbance? I bought mine from Tejas Tropicals and they come bare rooted as big 5 gallon plants, best $25 palm value ever. Mine went straight into the garden and they didn't even blink! Any story about root disturbance applies to trying to move an established specimen, not a potted plant. This is one heck of a robust plant that can take major abuse.

[Tropicdoc]

Ditto, Axel. My JC came from Tejas Tropicals bare rooted too. It did fine. No transplant shock. This palm is a nice cocos faker. I'm not sure what it's going to do down here. Long, HOT and HUMID summers. Wet winters usually to low 30s high 20s. Frost is a major issue for me...sometimes forming even above 32 because we are so humid.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Ditto, Axel. My JC came from Tejas Tropicals bare rooted too. It did fine. No transplant shock. This palm is a nice cocos faker. I'm not sure what it's going to do down here. Long, HOT and HUMID summers. Wet winters usually to low 30s high 20s. Frost is a major issue for me...sometimes forming even above 32 because we are so humid.

Frost forms at 39F on windshields. Most cars have a 39F/4C black ice alarm that beeps when temps reach 39F. I did not hear that this palm can't take any frost. I get 10-20 days a year in the 39-32F range with some white frost. It's never done anything to any of my palms.

[Tropicdoc]

Man, that is great to hear! If that is the case, I may be able to have a non-trunking "coconut" around my pool! (In about 10 years) Heard these are slow. Is that because of the cool nights in Cali? Are they that slow in Florida too?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Man, that is great to hear! If that is the case, I may be able to have a non-trunking "coconut" around my pool! (In about 10 years) Heard these are slow. Is that because of the cool nights in Cali? Are they that slow in Florida too?

The frost rating section and the Southern California Palm Society Reference Guide both seem to contradict Gary's observation and rate this palm as solid both from a survivability and cosmetic perspective at least into the 25-32F range. Someone posted a pic of their palm after exposures to the upper teens and low 20's, and the palm looked torched. See http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/3169-jubeopsis-caffra/. I think the Geoff Stein/Palm Society Reference Guide rating of 22F as being the point below which it won't survive is accurate, with the cosmetic damage limit being somewhere around 25-26F. Northern California growers report good frost tolerance on this species.

It probably prefers dry Mediterranean conditions since it is from the Cape in South Africa, and it doesn't seem to mind the cool Summer nights I get as long as there is plenty of heat during the day. I am sure it will do fine in a hot and humid Summer climate. But it's going to be slow even with heat. It's just a slug, that's all. It grows on river banks, so a lot of water on the roots is great.

[Tropicdoc]

^{Hmmmmm, lot of root water? That's how I treat my B. alfredii. I thought I should kind of limit watering on the J. caffra. But, your observation holds water... no pun.... J. Caffra and B alfredii both grow on river banks. I suspect overhead water is a no-no right? That's what I heard with most palms. As far as my climate and cold, I'm a lot like central Florida. Can have several years in a row without temps below 30, then BAM! Arctic blast. Sucks, huh?}

[Alicehunter2000]

Chad....started following this thread after looking at Mr. Rare's specimens....will be interested in getting a play by play this winter from you if it gets cold.

[Tropicdoc]

Jubaeopsis covered with my thermal wrap made from thermal underlayment for hardwood floors saw 27 F of course no frost. It is unfazed and as green as ever. Really a pretty palm even as a juvenile. Very slow though. Do you have one?

[Jim in Los Altos]

My Jubaeopsis cafra has been in the ground since it was a two leaf, 4" tall plant from a liner. It's been in its full shade position for three years and only gets some wintertime afternoon sun directly on it for a couple of hours daily so I wouldn't say full sun is necessary for this species to thrive. I've never seen a full sun specimen that didn't have a significant amount of brown leaf tipping even in cooler climates. I took this picture today.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

I have Dypsis decipiens in my garden down here at 42 deg south and it does really well in full sun making nearly 3 leaves a year ( it's about 60 cm tall )

[Hillizard]

My Jubaeopsis caffra seems to appreciate the summer heat where I live but also does better at this stage with just morning sun. It finally looks like it's starting to 'trunk' a bit, too. I got it years ago as a 'double-header,' with a big di$count, at the height of the recession, from Phil at JM. Perhaps he appreciated I was a loyal customer still buying palms during the economic downturn? It goes into the sunroom each winter, but once it gets a woody trunk, I may test it outdoors for longer and longer periods. Eventually, it could end up planted out... 

[Albey]

On 4/4/2013, 6:59:49, richnorm said:

Both these grow well for me at an annual average temperature of 15c-16c but are slow. I would be staggered if they could cope with average temperatures of only 10c and periods of proper cold, that's a massive climate difference. But I have plants doing well which I was advised not to try.....

Richard is correct,

I am growing 8x Dypsis decipiens here in Christchurch NZ where the mean annual temp is only 13-14 degrees celcius ( I would not think 10 degrees would be viable )

Rod.

[Albey]

On 12/8/2013, 1:05:58, Tassie_Troy1971 said:

I have Dypsis decipiens in my garden down here at 42 deg south and it does really well in full sun making nearly 3 leaves a year ( it's about 60 cm tall )

Photo update please Troy ????

 

Rod.

[Albey]

Dypsis Decipiens at 43° south.

 

[Jim in Los Altos]

Winter is the only time my Jubaeopsis gets any direct sunlight. Bottom photo is of my triple D. decipiens. It's just about to form visible trunk and then upward growth should take off.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Jim in Los Altos

[Josh-O]

4 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Winter is the only time my Jubaeopsis gets any direct sunlight. Bottom photo is of my triple D. decipiens. It's just about to form visible trunk and then upward growth should take off.

looking real nice Jim. They look very happy

[Josh-O]

My little Juby is producing lots of seed now

[Josh-O]

I have lots of green decipens in the garden but only 1 blue decipiens its small but getting blue as it grows

[Ben in Norcal]

Here’s my Jubaeopsis in full, baking, East Bay sun year round.

 

[Josh-O]

On 2/11/2018, 5:35:34, Ben in Norcal said:

Here’s my Jubaeopsis in full, baking, East Bay sun year round.

 

nice dude!!!

[Josh-O]

On 2/9/2018, 2:11:35, Albey said:

Dypsis Decipiens at 43° south.

 

looks great!!

[Tassie_Troy1971]

On 2/15/2018, 3:51:37, Josh-O said:

looks great!!

Wow Rod thats fantastic - mine is growing well not that big yet

 

[Josh-O]

[Hillizard]

On 7/21/2017 at 11:59 AM, Hillizard said:

My Jubaeopsis caffra seems to appreciate the summer heat where I live but also does better at this stage with just morning sun. It finally looks like it's starting to 'trunk' a bit, too. I got it years ago as a 'double-header,' with a big di$count, at the height of the recession, from Phil at JM. Perhaps he appreciated I was a loyal customer still buying palms during the economic downturn? It goes into the sunroom each winter, but once it gets a woody trunk, I may test it outdoors for longer and longer periods. Eventually, it could end up planted out... 

This year my Jubaeopsis hasn't handled the soggy, cooler than 'normal'(?) start to spring. I pulled 2 spears out of the right side shoot. The left side shoot seems to be OK... for now. Any suggestions for treatment of the diseased part? BTW, this is the first year I left it outdoors all winter.