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Bangalow with a "Curling Disease"


Pedro 65

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This Bangalow is curling over more and more, Ive seen the "odd" Bangalow here in Nth NSW with this, the top bends fully over and they still stay alive ..what is it ??

I will gladly give it the chop, glad its 'just a Bangalow" :) Pete

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I recall back in the late 80's or early 90's there was a spate of this happening in Brisbane. I can't recall what it was called or what the cause was but I remember something to do with crown twist.

Andrew,
Airlie Beach, Whitsundays

Tropical Queensland

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I have a Kentia in Sydney doing this.

I tried Boron, but no luck. Tried cutting everything off, but its still growing bent.

Edited by Brucer
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I too have seen this on the coast, with one of my clients bangalows doing the same thing.If i recall it has something to do with a boron deficiency as well.I'm also treating it with chelated iron to see if it improves as it is still throwing inflorescences...i'll let you know how it goes...Cheers Mike Green(Newcal)

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Your palm must have some relatives in Peradeniya!


Curling family!

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Philippe

 

Jungle Paradise in Sri Lanka

 

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So we have all seen this "phenomenon" happen to a Bangalow and Bruce has a Kentia doing the same...Post some pic pls Bruce..The surprise pic was Philippes with "yes a Bangalow" curling over in Sri Lanka, maybe its homesick ?

Is this a "new sp of Bangalow :floor: that has kept under the radar ? They aren't "common"... I notice ours is in flower so when it seeds I will put em on Ebay and call it the "Shy Bangalow"...Anyone have a better name :)

Pics added here to show how close this shy Palm is to other palms which are all healthy and a Philodendron feels so sorry for it so its "hugging it" with its roots. :) Pete

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  • 5 weeks later...

My bangalow (Archontophoenix cunninghamiana to be entirely specific) has begun to suffer the same problem--I can post a photo tomorrow. I've tried boron. The plant seems healthy other than the leaning crown. It's the height of my one-story house, grown from a 2' youngster, planted ten years ago.

I've guessed that the palm might have to go in a few months, unless it straightens. Fortunately, the area is well-planted. An adjacent A. tuckeri is thriving, as is a clump of Acoelorrhaphe wrightii (Paurotis). And there's a young bangalow elsewhere in the yard.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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never seen that one before Pete !

Old Beach ,Hobart
Tasmania ,Australia. 42 " south
Cool Maritime climate

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I recall seeing a house at Main Arm (NSW) with two bangalows symetrically placed in the lawn, both doing this twisting thing. It was intriguing that two palms in the same yard were doing the same thing, while the neighbours palms were untouched. I saw one in Auckland doing it too.

Waimarama New Zealand (39.5S, 177E)

Oceanic temperate

summer 25C/15C

winter 15C/6C

No frost, no heat

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Dave, Troy and Ben, Ive seen very few just like the Bangalow in my pic, maybe 2 here in Nth NSW and they too where Bangalows, and cultivated specimens, never seen this in the wild, as written above this is around plenty of healthy palms, its a 1 of here, Ive given it loads to food but its still curling so its a very easy decision to cut it down. I will open it up and inspect inside the trunk and heart when it gets the cut. :) Pete

I must add though, apart from the curling, its healthy and its flowering, maybe hold off on the cut and do what I said in post 6 re Ebay :floor:

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Pete,

Have you tried Boron as others have mentioned? Usually drenching Borax into the soil and waiting 6 months, then possibly repeating helps. Here are a few links:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ep264

http://www.palmpedia.net/Video/PalmPests/index.html

Also, from that second link, he mentions removing the inflorescences to prevent them from sinking additional nutrients. If you decide to do this, post pics when you climb the tree :floor:

Edited by cobra2326

Jon

Brooksville, FL 9a

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Pete, anytime I have researched this phenomena the majority of causes lead back to Boron - which is odd as soils here are not to have issues with it, but a lot of Kentias have the leaning crown. Which is odd also, because when you look at online literature on what plants look like with Boron deficiency it never shows leaning crown, just scrunched up new leaves coming out. Anyway, the only time I have seen boron treatments work is when used in conjunction with cutting of most the leaves on the leaning side or even the entire crown. Some even went to lengths to use rope to help pull the top part of the trunk. So maybe it wasnt even Boron helping but the other stuff that helped it right itself? Not worth it for you to do all this of course, but others might find useful.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Here's my palm. Unfortunately, the best angle for seeing a leaf that bent as it unfurled and the lean is from a position where the trunk is hidden by the house.

The yard gets fertilizer with iron (it's a common deficiency) and the palms get a commercial palm fertilizer with trace elements. Since the boron (borax) and magnesium (epsom salt) treatment, no more leaves have broken, so perhaps the tree is doing OK and will resume growing vertically.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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Although I think it's boron, If boron applications don't work, then try manganese, as both can have rather similar effects.

Note that the most efficient boron formula is Calcium borate. The others have been quite disappointing with me.

Sebastian, garden on La Palma island, 370 m (1200 feet) above sea level / USDA Zone 11/12 ; Heat zone IV / V

Record High: 42°C (107F) / Record Low: 9°C (48°F). Rain: 600 mm (24 inches) per year with dry/wet seasons. Warm Season: July-November / Cool Season: December-June
Warmest month (August/September) average minimum temperature : 21°C (70°F) / Warmest month (August/September) average maximum temperature : 28°C (82°F)
Coldest month (February/March) average minimum temperature : 14,5°C (58°F) / Coldest month (February/March) average maximum temperature : 21°C (70°F)

Temperature of the sea : minimum of 20°C (68°F) in march, maximum of 25°C (77°F) in September/October.


 

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Pete, I have 2 cunninghamiana's planted at the same time, side by side. One exhibits the lean and the other looks good. It has been slowly leaning over the past 1.5 years. Maybe one could be more prone to deficiencies than the other, but seems odd. I have some Borax, so I will try it. These also get regular good palm fert. I have seen different types of Archontophoenix do some pretty strange things around central FL.

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Here's another view of my A. cunninghamiana's tilted crown and, on the right, the leaf that broke while unfurling (there was a lot of wind).

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Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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I think I have seen this in wild groves of A. alexandrae in the Hilo area; maybe just a tree or two and the others are fine.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Today, I found that another leaf has broken while unfurling:

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Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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  • 1 year later...

In Peradeniya, I think a Dypsis, still curling

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In january 2012:

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How do you explain that?

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Philippe

 

Jungle Paradise in Sri Lanka

 

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The surprise pic was Philippes with "yes a Bangalow" curling over in Sri Lanka, maybe its homesick ?

Is this a "new sp of Bangalow :floor: that has kept under the radar ?

Yes I could be wrong but as far as my eye can see this could indeed be a "new sp of Bangalow" in fact I would go as far as to say it's some kind of Dypsis

Cerdic

Non omnis moriar (Horace)

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I've seen that happen to Roystonea, and I observed it recover over a period of several years. I asked Dr Broschat about that. He said he thought it was related to Boron deficiency that may be related to a flooding event that occurred many months earlier. Make not mistake, I have the utmost respect for him, but I'm still not satisfied because it's very hard to explain why one plant responds in that way while another just a couple feet away, does not.

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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Wow, I didnt give it the chop, but until I saw the old pics I thought it wasnt getting any better BUT, heres pics taken 5 mins ago compered to 17 mnths ago.

I took the advice and have been giving it Barmin which contains Boron and other minerals and looks like its steering back skywards.

Pete :)

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Pete,

I am glad your palms are steering back skywards,

It seemed to me it's what Peradeniya palms do as well, but I ignore if they got any medicine there :) .

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Philippe

 

Jungle Paradise in Sri Lanka

 

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Here's a website showing different stages of boron deficiencies, including a twisting or bending of the canopy (Figure 6).

http://itp.lucidcentral.org/id/palms/symptoms/Boron_Deficiency.htm

One of our mules and we just noticed one of our butias (both located in our back palm bed and planted next to each other) have the hookeyes on some older fronds. We noticed it on our mule as the frond was emerging but hadn't observed the deformity on our butia until just the other day. It's on a frond kind of midway on the trunk now so we're guessing both occured in frond development around the same time frame calendar-wise. We had almost a solid month of rain one winter and tied that to the mule's boron deficiency.

That bending in your photos indicates a really severe case if that's what it is. If not heavy rains, perhaps a high water table during a prolonged period leaching the boron out? Just a guess.

Zone 9b (formerly listed as Zone 9a); Sunset 14

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Love that site "symptoms of diseases and disorders" nary a word about control or cure just a series of ailments, symptoms and causes.

Cerdic

Non omnis moriar (Horace)

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This happens when the tree grows from a seed that was from the opposite hemisphere. its just trying to right itself.

"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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This happens when the tree grows from a seed that was from the opposite hemisphere. its just trying to right itself.

Do you? :)

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Philippe

 

Jungle Paradise in Sri Lanka

 

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Love that site "symptoms of diseases and disorders" nary a word about control or cure just a series of ailments, symptoms and causes.

True, but of value anyway. Hard to inquire about treatment if you don't even know what the problem could be. I'm sure a lot of new users come here looking for one or both (diagnosis and treatment).

Zone 9b (formerly listed as Zone 9a); Sunset 14

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Boron. :interesting: Lets face it its one the palm growers easier clues

Its true what the Toad says.

I was born in the Southern hemisphere, I moved to the Northern hemisphere and I've never been straight since [blush]

Cerdic

Non omnis moriar (Horace)

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  • 2 weeks later...

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Here's a photo of my unhappy A. cunninghamiana, behind a healthy A. tuckeri. I've got a 2.7 meter pole saw in the picture for scale. The palm is looking considerably worse than it did a year ago, so I'm applying to the City for a tree removal permit.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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I have seen one of these, too, in Santa Monica along the street in what appears to be perfectly good soil... our clayey soils are rarely if ever deficient in boron, and this seems such a weird random phenomenon, hard to believe this very rare thing is do to a mineral deficiency... these soils are usually very mineral rich... unless there is a mineral that is so prevalent it is creating a boron deficiency due to its presence... that I might believe.

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David, yours is still in its very early stages of curling and believe me Ive seen a specimen with the crown fully "upside down", as you can see the pics below mine is correcting itself from good doses of fertiliser n minerals which incl Boron, so dose up n dont give up.

Geoff, yes I agree, it really is a weird random phenomenon especially happening to Bangalow Palms "worldwide" that can like ours be "side by side" to very healthy unaffected Palms.

Maybe these weird Bangalows should be called Hangalow ?

Pete :)

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I have seen one of these, too, in Santa Monica along the street in what appears to be perfectly good soil... our clayey soils are rarely if ever deficient in boron, and this seems such a weird random phenomenon, hard to believe this very rare thing is do to a mineral deficiency... these soils are usually very mineral rich... unless there is a mineral that is so prevalent it is creating a boron deficiency due to its presence... that I might believe.

Geoff, I have talked to a few knowledgable plant people (like Kent Houser) that think it could be a mite. We have seen what mites can do to aloes and cycads. Not saying I agree, but interesting hypothesis. Kent has started spraying leaning Howias with miticide so hopefully in a year or so we get some results.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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  • 2 weeks later...

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Here's my A. cunninghamiana today. Despite the broken leaf (from last year), it has opened a new inflorescence and seems to be producing leaves at a reasonable rate, even if the spears are badly off-vertical.

Thanks for the updates and photos. Mite infestations are certainly possible, not to mention assorted scales. A Syagrus schizophylla in the same bed suffered a nasty infestation that I thought was magnolia scale, and a coconut palm across the street suffered what was likely spiraling whitefly, a new pest.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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  • 10 months later...

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Update on my A. cunninghamiana. A new leaf is beginning to unfurl and you can see the spear, looking closer to vertical than has been the case. The palm appears to be righting its crown, so I'm leaving it in place. However, a young Kentiopsis oliviformis is close by.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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Dave, I had a Tuckeri do this earlier this year. Earlier I forgot a running hose at the base of it during a dry spell. Accidentally soaked it for hours. I'm guessing I washed all the boron away in my sand. Figured out what I thought was the problem (after finding this thread) and added boron and dosed up on other micros. In a matter of months the palm is growing upright and thriving again. Maybe I got lucky or maybe the boron was the problem.

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I may have overdosed the area with boron (borax) and epson salt, causing further trouble. A neighboring A. tuckeri suffered only very slight deviation from vertical and no leaf problems, while coonties (Zamia) suffered leaf browning and Simpson stopper (Myrcianthes fragrans) defoliated, then recovered. Everglades palm (Acoelorrhaphe wrightii) was unbothered. For the past year, I've restricted treatment to palm fertilizer from a local producer, Nurserymen's Sure-Gro.

The three A. tuckeri in the yard are thriving, with two producing seed, and so is another young A. cunninghamiana, even though it had trouble with leaf infections when small. A young A. maxima in the front yard is booming.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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