Jump to content


RarePalmSeeds

Photo

Grasshoppers


  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#1 Scott

Scott

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,559 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Fernando Valley, Ca.

Posted 19 August 2006 - 06:15 PM

HELP!

A perfectly healthy phoenix roebelenii decimated! Now even the washy is being attacked after it's miraculous recovery, what next... Poor Bizzie? :o

I saw a white grasshopper munching away, but he got away.

I'm worried all my palms and other plants are going to be destroyed.

Any advice?  :(
  • 0
Scott

San Fernando Valley, California
Sunset Climate Zone 18

PalmTalk Advertising

#2 Patrick

Patrick

    Rank: TRUNKING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 922 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oakley, California.

Posted 19 August 2006 - 06:43 PM

I don't mean to be too rookie-ish with this; I'm sure there's some specialty something or other but here's what I've found to work for me.
Ortho's Systemic Insect Killer or Death or something like that has done well for me. The plants, I guess, absorb it so the next time something wants to take a bite out of it it gets dead. Capiche? Try it, it can't hurt- I've abused this poor, poor washingtonia I have in a pot and I don't think anything can kill it. The phoenix is a bit more sensitive but I'm pretty sure I've sprayed them before. Good luck!
The hopper must die!!!!!!!horray for ca!


Pat
  • 0
Oakley, California
55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA
Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.
Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

#3 SunnyFl

SunnyFl

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,742 posts
  • Location:St. Pete, FL

Posted 19 August 2006 - 06:44 PM


(Scott @ Aug. 19 2006,22:15)
QUOTE
HELP!

A perfectly healthy phoenix roebelenii decimated! Now even the washy is being attacked after it's miraculous recovery, what next... Poor Bizzie? :o

I saw a white grasshopper munching away, but he got away.

I'm worried all my palms and other plants are going to be destroyed.

Any advice?  :([/quote]
Aaargh!  Those blasted grasshoppers!  We have the orange & green lubber types (huge) - a bunch of them ate my liquala grandis right down to the quick.  Never saw that palm without lubbers on it, biting huge chuncks out.

I've never heard of white grasshoppers but if their habits are like the Eastern Lubber, they may have more of a taste for roebs (and liqualas, grrrrrr) than for other palms.  I've never seen a grasshopper on my glauca or my fine-leaf.

There is a bacterial control called Nocera (sp?) locustiae that causes grasshoppers to sicken.  Also, if your white grasshoppers are smallish, a judicious application of Sevin dust might dissuaded them from devouring your palms.  However, if they're big like lubbers (an inch high, 4" long), then Sevin will only help in the immature stages.

Personally, I prefer Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub to Sevin.

Did they really decimate the roeb - do you think it will recover?
  • 0
St. Pete
Zone - a wacked-out place between 9b & 10
Elevation = 44' - not that it does any good

#4 Patrick

Patrick

    Rank: TRUNKING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 922 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oakley, California.

Posted 19 August 2006 - 06:58 PM

sounds like you  need a gun for those greenies! Good luck there!
  • 0
Oakley, California
55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA
Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.
Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

#5 STEVE IN SO CAL

STEVE IN SO CAL

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,512 posts
  • Location:(san diego north county)

Posted 19 August 2006 - 08:29 PM

A malathion spray will sometimes deter them because of the taste.
If your position gets overrun, you can call in an airstrike on your own position...but that's a final resort kinda thing  :P
  • 0
If global warming means I can grow Cocos Nucifera, then bring it on....

#6 Scott

Scott

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,559 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Fernando Valley, Ca.

Posted 20 August 2006 - 10:40 PM

Thanks! You guys have given me some good ideas. I especially like the air assault idea!

I think the roeb will recover, if the hoppers can be kept at bay. It thows up new fronds faster than any other I have, but for right now, it's severly injured.

Note: they won't touch the Chamaerops!

I'll try whatever pet safest things can be done, as I have a schnauzer that eats the palm food as I distribute it!!! :o

The yard is almost at the point of becoming a garden after alot of hard work and expense.

Back in the 70's, grasshoppers wiped everything out in the same yard, and it was all lost. It has remained baren for 30+ years until now. I really pray this won't again happen.

Thanks again!

Scott
  • 0
Scott

San Fernando Valley, California
Sunset Climate Zone 18

#7 MattyB

MattyB

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spring Valley, CA (San Diego County)

Posted 21 August 2006 - 08:50 PM

Scott, I've had grasshoppers mack on my Rhopalostylis before.  They suck man!  I think that if you spray Malathion or Diazanon it might deter them because of the taste, like Steve said, but then you're messing with all the good insects too.  I wouldn't recomend a mass spraying unless you get a swarm like in the 70's and it's all out war! :angry:   I've seen a swarm one time while filling up at a gas station in the San Jaquin Valley.  It was wierd, and scary and cool!  Maybe if you add a bird bath and a bird feeder you'll attract some natural preditors.  Also, as your palms get bigger the grasshoppers can't do as much damage.  They eat a leaf instead of a whole plant.  They are voracious though.   Maybe you need a good BB gun w/ a scope.  Good luck.
  • 0
Matt Bradford
"Manambe Lavaka"
Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

#8 BS Man about Palms

BS Man about Palms

    This TVR is trapped in my garage by PALMS!

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,465 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oceanside, CA.

Posted 24 August 2006 - 08:24 PM

Yeah, I've noticed a ton more of these suckers this year!!!

I've only recently been "aware" of "plant damagers" in the past few years, but I've had my eyes opened as they find my smorgasbord!

Bill
  • 0
Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#9 happ

happ

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 2,716 posts
  • Location:Northeast foothills of Los Angeles near Pasadena. South-facing hills USDA 11/Sunset 23

Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:17 PM

Scott

I feel your pain, bro.  :(

Unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can do to stop grasshoppers unless everybody in your area use insecticides.  Worst yet, I live in an area set aside by the Santa Monica Mt. conservancy because of the large number of native California black walnut trees.  Hoppers love walnut trees and a lot of other things.

They feast on my veitchia arecina and especially savor a euterpe edulis.  The palm fronds are scared with holes.  Also nearby dombeya look like swiss cheese and even heliconia are attacked.

There are a variety of ways to keep the grasshoppers population down a bit.  Nolo bait is a pathogen that is fairly effective.  

Good luck.
  • 0
Los Angeles/Pasadena
34° 10' N   118° 18' W
Elevation: 910'/278m
January Average Hi/Lo: 69F/50F
July Average Hi/Lo: 88F/66F
Average Rainfall: 19"/48cm
USDA 11/Sunset 23
http://cdec.water.ca...rogs/queryF?MTW

#10 DoomsDave

DoomsDave

    Dave of the Dead

  • IPS DIRECTOR
  • 20,698 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:La Habra, California, USA

Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:38 PM

MAtty!

Grasshoppers don't suck, they chew!

(Egad!  :P)

They're not the big deal you think.  If plants died from a little chewing, all of the animal kingdom would be extinct.

I've had some palms get chawed worse than 'backer by 'billies, and it ain't no thang'.   They just regrow, bro.  

The best remedy for grasshoppers is a fuzzy kittycat.

(Pounce!  Paw-paw-paw-paw! Crunch crunch crunch!)

dave
  • 0

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.


#11 elHoagie

elHoagie

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • IPS DIRECTOR
  • 1,540 posts
  • Location:Los Angeles, CA, USA

Posted 25 August 2006 - 08:55 AM

I just look for fresh damage on plants early in the morning or late in the afternoon.  If there's fresh damage I can usually find a grasshopper on the plant within a couple minutes.  Actually, laHoagie has much better eyes, and she's the one who usually finds them.  Anyway, once I find the bastard, I just grab it and squeeze.  This method has worked pretty good for me, I usually find the little guys before they do too much damage.
  • 0
Jack Sayers

East Los Angeles

growing cold tolerant palms halfway between the equator and the arctic circle...

#12 BigFrond

BigFrond

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,341 posts
  • Location:San Marcos

Posted 25 August 2006 - 09:14 AM

With the little seedings or plants you can use some sort of meshing like the one for your screen door but should be wire so you can mold them into little domes.  I've done this before for smaller plants however, the bigger plants are out of luck.  For the big plants, the ole whack the varmints with a switch or a fly swatter works really well.
  • 0

#13 Kim

Kim

    Learning by heart

  • IPS DIRECTOR
  • 5,318 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:San Diego, California USA and Pahoa, Hawaii USA

Posted 25 August 2006 - 09:48 AM

Be quick with the pruners, slice them to pieces!  No chemicals needed.  

I hate doing it, but it works.  Creeps me out when the dismembered parts keep walking.  Ugh.
  • 0

Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, USA
All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental
anm23bea44cd09109b5.gif


#14 happ

happ

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 2,716 posts
  • Location:Northeast foothills of Los Angeles near Pasadena. South-facing hills USDA 11/Sunset 23

Posted 25 August 2006 - 10:39 PM

Clap under & over simultaneously; gets em every time,  It's harder if there are a bunch of baby grasshoppers all over bauhinia.  

Tend to agree with Dave.  So long as the varmints don't get any worse I let them be.  The damage isn't too bad [except the large dombeya leaves are 50% eaten  :o  it doesn't interfere with winter flowering though.

Cats around my place don't bother with grasshoppers.  Their tastes favor lizards, gophers, birds and mice.  :D
  • 0
Los Angeles/Pasadena
34° 10' N   118° 18' W
Elevation: 910'/278m
January Average Hi/Lo: 69F/50F
July Average Hi/Lo: 88F/66F
Average Rainfall: 19"/48cm
USDA 11/Sunset 23
http://cdec.water.ca...rogs/queryF?MTW

#15 Kris

Kris

    Pana Rasiga

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 12,478 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:India

Posted 27 August 2006 - 06:52 AM

Dear Folks  :)

very interesting topic.and iam not aware that
grasshoppers are so dangerous to our gardens.

do not laugh at me,if i say you that in india we
hardly kill grasshoppers because we believe it
is very auspicious & brings good fortune with it !

so even i have over looked them in the past,
but now after knowing what they are capable of
i will shurely look in to this matter and do the
need-ful.

thanks for the Info

Love,
Kris(India).
  • 0
love conquers all..

Posted Image
.






#16 iwan

iwan

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,022 posts

Posted 14 September 2006 - 04:01 PM

We get grasshopper plagues every few years here.  We are surrounded by thousands of acres of rangeland and the grasshoppers arrive by the thousands.    The first year they took out 70% of our plants.  As much as I hate blanket spraying, Orthene takes them out.  It is systemic and it is always fun to go out in the morning and see the bloody things twitching on the ground.  Within 48 hours, no more grasshoppers.  Spraying a 10' strip of weeds outside of the planted areas provides a buffer area where subsequent rounds die before getting into the landscaped area.
  • 0
Robert

Madera, CA (central San Joaquin valley)
9A

#17 MattyB

MattyB

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spring Valley, CA (San Diego County)

Posted 18 September 2006 - 08:19 AM

Anyway, once I find the bastard, I just grab it and squeeze.


You heathen!  I don't have the heart.  My wife has brain washed me.  I just throw it in the neighbors yard (the one w/ the dirt lot and the trash and the dogs) and tell it not to come back.  I'm a grasshopper biotch!
  • 0
Matt Bradford
"Manambe Lavaka"
Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

#18 elHoagie

elHoagie

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • IPS DIRECTOR
  • 1,540 posts
  • Location:Los Angeles, CA, USA

Posted 18 September 2006 - 10:40 AM


(MattyB @ Sep. 18 2006,12:19)
QUOTE
You heathen!  I don't have the heart.  My wife has brain washed me.  I just throw it in the neighbors yard (the one w/ the dirt lot and the trash and the dogs) and tell it not to come back.  I'm a grasshopper biotch![/quote]
Matty, you fool!  They'll just come right back.  Once they get a taste of some oh so juicy Ravenea fronds they can't go back to eating common weeds....
  • 0
Jack Sayers

East Los Angeles

growing cold tolerant palms halfway between the equator and the arctic circle...

#19 SunnyFl

SunnyFl

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,742 posts
  • Location:St. Pete, FL

Posted 18 September 2006 - 03:58 PM


(iwan @ Sep. 14 2006,20:01)
QUOTE
We get grasshopper plagues every few years here.  We are surrounded by thousands of acres of rangeland and the grasshoppers arrive by the thousands.    The first year they took out 70% of our plants.  As much as I hate blanket spraying, Orthene takes them out.  It is systemic and it is always fun to go out in the morning and see the bloody things twitching on the ground.  Within 48 hours, no more grasshoppers.  Spraying a 10' strip of weeds outside of the planted areas provides a buffer area where subsequent rounds die before getting into the landscaped area.[/quote]
There's a time and a place for everything - except disgusting plant-eating bugs.  If you're getting a plague of those horrid things, a chemical assault is the way to go.  Anything to be rid of them.

And this is from someone who uses Bayer once a year only - and only on the most needy plants.
  • 0
St. Pete
Zone - a wacked-out place between 9b & 10
Elevation = 44' - not that it does any good

#20 palmazon

palmazon

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,171 posts
  • Location:earth

Posted 18 September 2006 - 06:53 PM

Yesterday, I watched Fred Zone10A methodically dismember one - fascinating, like an episode of Wild Kingdom
  • 0

I get by with a little help from my fronds


#21 MattyB

MattyB

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spring Valley, CA (San Diego County)

Posted 18 September 2006 - 09:02 PM

ahhhh that's sad.  Can't we just put a little smack down on 'em and send them on their way?  I agree that if there's a swarm headed your way then it's all out war.  Spray kriptonite if you got it!  But if you find one little grasshopper can't you just toss it to another area.  I think odds are that it will find a neighbors plants before yours again.  Have a soft heart man.  It only lives a short life and getting caught and dissmembered is a real bummer.  You could be a savior for this little guy.  Free a bug today!  Or throw them into the fish pond, that's always fun to watch!  I'm sick.
  • 0
Matt Bradford
"Manambe Lavaka"
Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

#22 BS Man about Palms

BS Man about Palms

    This TVR is trapped in my garage by PALMS!

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,465 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oceanside, CA.

Posted 18 September 2006 - 09:18 PM

You know, hearing Matt go on about these geehoppers makes me think back to when I was a lot younger. I used to be fascinated by all sorts of bugs.

I never was much into the torture thing, but then again, I hadn't bought any plants I wanted to keep alive!  In the last few weeks, at any garden I've been at, if I see one, I grab it, throw it on the ground and stomp it.  A bit sad, but too much damage from them!
  • 0
Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#23 Scott

Scott

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,559 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Fernando Valley, Ca.

Posted 30 September 2006 - 03:23 PM

Well, you could always impale one :o  and leave it there stuck in the ground as a warning - thereby saving the others from the harsh reality of the ramifacations of their reckless and callous actions......
  • 0
Scott

San Fernando Valley, California
Sunset Climate Zone 18

#24 iwan

iwan

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,022 posts

Posted 30 September 2006 - 07:46 PM


(Scott @ Sep. 30 2006,16:23)
QUOTE
Well, you could always impale one :o  and leave it there stuck in the ground as a warning - thereby saving the others from the harsh reality of the ramifacations of their reckless and callous actions......[/quote]
Several years ago I could not figure out why I was finding grasshoppers impaled on thorny bushes around the house.  For the longest time I thought some kids were, well, being kids.  But, my closest neighbor was 1/4 mile away.  Come to find out one of the local bird species was saving them for the lean times.  

The impaled grasshoppers didn't seem to be detered by their impaled friends.
  • 0
Robert

Madera, CA (central San Joaquin valley)
9A

#25 MattyB

MattyB

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spring Valley, CA (San Diego County)

Posted 02 October 2006 - 08:08 AM

Interesting, about the birds little storage device.  I found two grasshoppers yesterday in my garden.  When I water, they hop around and I catch them.  I though about smooshing them but instead threw them up into the air about 30 feet.  The big one just flew away real far.  The littler one flew into another yard.
  • 0
Matt Bradford
"Manambe Lavaka"
Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

#26 Scott

Scott

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,559 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Fernando Valley, Ca.

Posted 02 October 2006 - 08:40 AM

I get these suspicious hopping birds too. I always hope they'll eat the weed seeds, but so far, no luck. I'm not sure what they're doing there.

Hmmmm........
  • 0
Scott

San Fernando Valley, California
Sunset Climate Zone 18

#27 Joe palma

Joe palma

    Rank: TRUNKING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 916 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Marcos, CA

Posted 02 October 2006 - 11:51 AM

[QUOTE]· Posted on Sep. 30 2006,19:23
Well, you could always impale one   and leave it there stuck in the ground as a warning - thereby saving the others from the harsh reality of the ramifacations of their reckless and callous actions......

Love your sense of humor Scott!  :D

Well if we ever had a plague of these things it would be terrible.

I went out the other morning and found about 30 babies (3/8" long) on the very top of an opening leaf of a Livistona chinensis. I freaked and grabbed them w/ my hand, crushing what I could. Some got away so I got the spray (diazinon, I think) and hit those bizastards!
I haven't seen any maturing ones so I might have got most of them. Mature ones, still, are out there.

I agree w/ BS, in that I have seen more this year as well. They love the Phoenix hyrbids, Ravenea rivularis, Livistona chinensis and Roystonea's. Even on the very tall stuff I see damage and it obviously doesn't look good. Tying to get as many as I can, as the pests are not ones to be kind to (Sorry MattyB)!

I've been wanting to post a thread on this (Thanks Scott) as I fear it could get really bad. Will try some of the systemics mentioned above.
  • 0
Joe Dombrowski
Discovery Island Palms Nursery
San Marcos, CA
"grow my little palm tree, grow!"

#28 doubravsky

doubravsky

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 1,015 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Riverside, CA Z 9b

Posted 02 October 2006 - 02:29 PM

I had one small ensete where I would find 4-6 babies and mature ones EVERY freakin' day for like 3 weeks. I musta killed a hundred of 'em. The little ones I smashed with flip flops, and the big ones I smacked off of the plant and gave em to my Labrador retriever.
  • 0
Dave

Riverside, CA Z 9b
1700 ft. elevation
approx 40 miles inland

#29 AS in SA

AS in SA

    Rank: SEEDLING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 104 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, CA

Posted 05 October 2006 - 10:18 AM

To keep them away from your palms plant some sacrificial hibiscus - they love mine.  I try not to spray unless they're really bad - always feel bad when I hit a ladybug I didn't see.  I like hitting them with the hose and watching them jump into the pool... :D
  • 0
AS in SA,

Santa Ana - CA.

#30 MattyB

MattyB

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spring Valley, CA (San Diego County)

Posted 05 October 2006 - 11:46 AM

I get these suspicious hopping birds too. I always hope they'll eat the weed seeds, but so far, no luck. I'm not sure what they're doing there.


Scott, I suspect these might be Killdeers.  They are a type of Plover, similar to the Sandpipers you see at the beach.  They nest in dirt or gravel lots.  They make shrill noises like "Ki-Ki-Dee...Ki-Ki-Dee" :D   They also will fake an injury to draw preditors near them and away from nests only to fly away at the last moment.  They are mostly active in the early evening.  Don't know if these are what you have but I thought I'd take a stab at it.

Attached Thumbnails

  • post_Killdeer_201.jpg

  • 0
Matt Bradford
"Manambe Lavaka"
Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

#31 Scott

Scott

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 1,559 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Fernando Valley, Ca.

Posted 11 October 2006 - 07:15 PM

Matty - I think that's it!  I wish they'd stick around long enough so I could see what they're doing.

I notice that they nest their eggs on the ground! I've got to be careful.

Did you take the picture? I remember a post you did on the old forum with some IMPRESSIVE close ups of dragon flies, etc.
  • 0
Scott

San Fernando Valley, California
Sunset Climate Zone 18

#32 MattyB

MattyB

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,981 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spring Valley, CA (San Diego County)

Posted 12 October 2006 - 08:13 PM

No, I didn't take this picture, it's from the internet.  I was doing some reading up on these guys sometime last year and I remember one account of a Killdeer who just layed her eggs right in the middle of someones gravel driveway.  They just drove over the nest, being carefull not to smash the eggs w/ the tires and the bird just got use to it and comes back every year.
  • 0
Matt Bradford
"Manambe Lavaka"
Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users