Summer Rain / Winter Rain Crosses?

[epiphyte]

Not sure exactly when I first started developing an appreciation for tree Aloes...perhaps around '07. Since then I've planted nearly two dozen different tree Aloes in my front yard. Most are painfully slow...but the greatest exception by far is Aloe Hercules.

Hercules is a cross between an Aloe which primarily receives winter rain...dichotoma...and an Aloe that primarily receives summer rain...bainesii. We're probably all familiar with the concept of hybrid vigor...but I'm guessing Hercules' vigor is due in no small part to the fact that one of his parents is from a summer rain climate while the other is from a winter rain climate. So this gives him the ability to grow year around.

Can anybody think of any other winter rain / summer rain crosses? Has anybody ever crossed a winter rain palm with a summer rain palm? The cactus family has a few species from Mediterranean climates...so there is the potential for year around growing hybrids there as well. If I get a chance I'd really like to try and cross a winter rain epiphytic fern...Davallia canariensis...with a summer rain epiphytic fern...Davallia fejeensis. Unfortunately, there are no epiphytic orchids from Mediterranean climates.

For reference...here's a map of Mediterranean climates

Actually, perhaps Hercules' vigor has more to do with temperature than rain? If that's the case then maybe comparable vigor could be achieved by crossing a cold growing species with a warm growing species.

[MattyB]

Interesting topic.

[Palm crazy]

Can anybody think of any other winter rain / summer rain crosses? Has anybody ever crossed a winter rain palm with a summer rain palm? The cactus family has a few species from Mediterranean climates...so there is the potential for year around growing hybrids there as well. If I get a chance I'd really like to try and cross a winter rain epiphytic fern...Davallia canariensis...with a summer rain epiphytic fern...Davallia fejeensis. Unfortunately, there are no epiphytic orchids from Mediterranean climates.

Not a cross, but.... Phlebodium pseudoaureum (Blue Rabbit's Foot Fern) grows in winter/summer as long as its not freezing/ with lots of water.

I'm trying this one in the ground and it grew like crazy in the winter as a potted plant (when I put it outside to get rained on.)

Testing it hardiness this winter in z8. Have it planted under a Pieris japonica.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Palm crazy

[epiphyte]

That's really great that you're going to test its cold hardiness! Hopefully you'll keep a division indoors just in case. One thing you might consider doing is to propagate it from spore. Perhaps some of the offspring might be more cold tolerant than the parent.

Right now I'm sowing a bunch of plants from seed/spore in order to try and figure out just how much cold/drought tolerance variation there might be among the seedlings. Well...I'll definitely be selecting for drought tolerance...but it probably won't get cold enough to select for cold tolerance for most of the species. The few species that might be selected for cold tolerance are a couple Anthuriums and a Medinilla.

The trick will be to carefully monitor them so that I can bring them inside before the cold kills all of them. The more variation there is in cold tolerance...the bigger the window of opportunity will be to bring them inside.

All my seeds are sown on 10" sections of old trellis that I've covered in New Zealand Sphagnum. I have the pieces of trellis laying horizontally on top of bark inside rectangular plastic planters that are covered in clear plastic. Once the seedlings are big enough I'l hang the sticks vertically in my shade shelter area. Then the survival of the fittest games will begin! Dang, what if I don't have the heart to kill off a gazillion seedlings?

When it comes to tropicals and cold tolerance...I'm fairly certain that excellent drainage plays a very important role in increasing the likelihood of survival. So if your fern is large enough...you might consider attaching a division to a tree or piece of wood. It's probably a bit late in the year to do so though.

If you get a chance...you might check out the Growing on the Edge forum. Here's a thread on epiphytes and cold tolerance.

I wonder if any of our native Polypodiums could be crossed with any tropical Polypodiums. So far I haven't had much luck growing any of our native Polypodiums. I give them too much water during summer and not enough water during winter.

[Palm crazy]

Here she is a beautiful fern that cost me $15.00 at the Garden Center, then in April H.D. had the same plants as outdoor hardy in one gallons for $7.00. If it does good this winter I want more come spring from H.D.

Native Polypodiums are dormant right now up here or at least the ones not in full shade. In about month they will start to grow.

What is looks like now.

Picture from Oct. this one is a volunteer on my wooden gutter.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Palm crazy

[epiphyte]

Thanks for sharing the pics! It's really neat to see the Polypodium growing on your house. Is it poikilohydric or does it just produce new leaves at the beginning of each growing season? Here's another neat pic of a Polypodium...it's growing on a truck's mudflap.

You should definitely consider sowing the spore from both ferns together. Not sure if they would be compatible though. Perhaps an even closer match to your native Polypodium would be the epiphytic Polypodium on the East Coast...Polypodium polypodioides. It's usually available on ebay...just search for Resurrection Fern. It's a little tricky because that's also the common name for a fern ally...Selaginella.

Based on the "Hercules" theory...a cross between the East Coast epiphytic Polypodium and the West Coast epiphytic Polypodium would be an outstanding grower.

[MattyB]

I spy an Albissia jilibrissin 'summer chocolate'!!!

I've never been able to get one to come true to seed and I suspect that all the ones available in nurseries are grafts.

[JasonD]

Thanks for sharing the pics! It's really neat to see the Polypodium growing on your house. Is it poikilohydric or does it just produce new leaves at the beginning of each growing season? Here's another neat pic of a Polypodium...it's growing on a truck's mudflap.

You should definitely consider sowing the spore from both ferns together. Not sure if they would be compatible though. Perhaps an even closer match to your native Polypodium would be the epiphytic Polypodium on the East Coast...Polypodium polypodioides. It's usually available on ebay...just search for Resurrection Fern. It's a little tricky because that's also the common name for a fern ally...Selaginella.

Based on the "Hercules" theory...a cross between the East Coast epiphytic Polypodium and the West Coast epiphytic Polypodium would be an outstanding grower.

Polypodium scouleri here in SF grows year-round in perpetually moist locations. One in my garden gets irrigated and stays green. Big self-sown mats of them on exotic Monterey cypress on the city's tallest hill, Mt. Davidson, catch fog drip all summer long and stay quite green and lush. Most of the other ones around town go thoroughly dormant in the summer dry season. These are in normal habitat niches, such as rocky outcrops amidst coastal scrub.

[JasonD]

Given the rarity of Mediterranean-climate palm species, here are some ideas of winter-rain + summer-rain palm hybrids:

Jubaea x Butia

Jubaea x Syagrus romanzoffiana

Jubaea x any other seasonal-rainfall-habitat species with which it could hybridize: They'd all be from summer-rainfall habitats.

Brahea edulis x B. brandeegei

Phoenix canariensis x P. sylvestris, P. reclinata, basically all other Phoenix spp. except P. theophrasti

Ditto Phoenix theophrasti except P. canariensis

Has anyone ever crossed Chamaerops with another genus?

[Palm crazy]

epiphyte thanks for the links about 'epiphyte' the wheels are turn ever since, So today I got out there and added some hardy plants as epiphyte on my trachycarpus trunk.

Never done this before so it should be interesting what happens come next summer.

Lewsia and Succulent.

Some other ones I have are green in summer and bright red/purple in winter.

Sorry for the bad photos, and taking over your thread.

Here is a Rhododendron Vireyas densifolium from the South Yunnan/North Vietnam border region. "HARDY"

[epiphyte]

Polypodium scouleri here in SF grows year-round in perpetually moist locations. One in my garden gets irrigated and stays green. Big self-sown mats of them on exotic Monterey cypress on the city's tallest hill, Mt. Davidson, catch fog drip all summer long and stay quite green and lush. Most of the other ones around town go thoroughly dormant in the summer dry season. These are in normal habitat niches, such as rocky outcrops amidst coastal scrub.

I killed it...just like I killed all the other native epiphytic ferns that I've tried. Probably because I don't water enough during winter. P. scouleri has such nicely leathery leaves though. You should cross it with Polypodium polypodioides...or I should...or we both should.

[epiphyte]

Palm crazy, way to think vertically! The plants look happy. Never heard of Lewisia...but I googled it and was quite impressed with the flowers. It will be something to see it blooming on the palm. Check out some other sempervivums growing epiphytically.

Oh man, I really like that Vireya! It's form is way nice...It almost looks like a Peperomia or a Sedum. That's pretty amazing that it's growing so well all the way up there. You should try and get more plants from South Yunnan / North Vietnam.

Trachycarpus fortunei seems to be perfect for attaching plants to because of the fiber. I wish I had one...or two...or three. I have a pygmy date palm that I attach pretty much everything to...ferns, begonias, rhipsalis, peperomias, orchids, impatiens, spiderworts, dischidias...

[Palm crazy]

Lewisia are a native plant here so they can take the winter rain and summer drought.

Here's the one that is in the trachy now...a hybrid called plum pudding.

Blooms in spring.

Here one in my garden that is a native species...in the dry summer season the foliage turns nice rich colors.

I'll be adding more in the spring with some of the hot tropical colorful ones.

I have a few other plants on trachy's I take pics later in the week.

Those are some interesting plants your using.

[Palm crazy]

Sorry double posting.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Palm crazy

[Palm crazy]

Sorry double posting.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Palm crazy

[JasonD]

Palm crazy, way to think vertically! The plants look happy. Never heard of Lewisia...but I googled it and was quite impressed with the flowers. It will be something to see it blooming on the palm. Check out some other sempervivums growing epiphytically.

Oh man, I really like that Vireya! It's form is way nice...It almost looks like a Peperomia or a Sedum. That's pretty amazing that it's growing so well all the way up there. You should try and get more plants from South Yunnan / North Vietnam.

Trachycarpus fortunei seems to be perfect for attaching plants to because of the fiber. I wish I had one...or two...or three. I have a pygmy date palm that I attach pretty much everything to...ferns, begonias, rhipsalis, peperomias, orchids, impatiens, spiderworts, dischidias...

Whoa, you are growing dischidias outdoors in Glendale? How cool! Do you know the species?

[epiphyte]

Palm crazy, thanks for sharing those pics! One thing to keep in mind is the benefit of sowing seeds. If you sow a gazillion seeds of a plant that might be marginal in your area...then perhaps you can select for a slightly more tolerant individual. If you repeat the process then you might end up with an individual that is substantially more tolerant. That's what I've just barely started to do for many plants that aren't quite temperature/drought tolerant enough for my area.

The other day at an orchid show I was telling an Anthurium expert about my plan and his response was, "Why?" The same thing happened a while back with an orchid expert. Why would I want more awesome plants that require less water and can be grown outdoors year around on trees? What's funny is that I really struggle to answer that question. I guess if I struggle to answer the obvious then it's really not that obvious?

It reminds me of the Calvin and Hobbes comic strip where Calvin is pounding nails into the coffee table. His mother freaks out and asks him what he's doing...to which he responds..."is this a trick question?". Except, I'm not pounding nails into a tree...I'm trying to add a wider variety of plants to a tree...which is not fundamentally any different than trying to add a wider variety of plants to a yard. Why would you want to add a wider variety of plants to a yard? Because it broadens the appeal? Because it keeps you from getting bored? Because variety is the spice of life?

Kinda like Martin Luther King...I too have a dream. My dream is that space is a limited commodity and people's yards are going to dwindle and dwindle in size until the average size of the yard will be akin to the tiny yards of San Francisco. And then people who want a wide variety of plants in their yards will be forced to think vertically...and thanks to people in the past who had the individual foresight to select for drought/temperature tolerance...the future people will have a wide variety of plants to choose from.

Errr...yeah...because I really just want to water less. I want more tropicals for less water. Hmmm...that would be funny if, after several generations of drought selection, the tropicals looked more like drought tolerant plants than tropicals. Well...succulent orchids are still neat in my book...so it will just be like combining the best of both worlds. That's my ramble and I'm sticking to it like an epiphyte sticks to a tree. That is...until a stupid fat raccoon comes along and knocks it off. *shakes fist at all stupid fat raccoons of the world.*

[epiphyte]

Whoa, you are growing dischidias outdoors in Glendale? How cool! Do you know the species?

Yup, several species actually...but only just fairly recently. My favorite...hands down by far...is what I'm relatively certain is Dischidia cleistantha. I've had it for one winter. Here's a picture of it this July...

Dischidia cleistantha by epiphyte78, on Flickr

...when I get a chance I'll upload a more recent photo it. It has the distinction of being the only plant on my tree from the Philippines. Another one doing exceptionally well is Dischidia formosana. It likes to grow down / dangle while cleistantha likes to climb up and shingle. D. formosana is probably more temperature tolerant while cleistantha is more drought tolerant.

Then I also have Dischidia milnei. It's supposed to be one of the most drought tolerant. It had no problem with this last winter but it seems slower than cleistantha and formosana. Another one that I have...that I received from a friend who has been growing it outside for quite some time...is what we're referring to as Dischidia bengalensis. So far it seems like a fairly solid grower.

I have several other species that I really haven't had long enough to form much of an opinion about.

[Palm crazy]

Here is my most resent plant that is native to Vietnam....A new species of Schefflera...this one has not been ID, not even by the nursery that collected it last year in the wild.

Supposed to be one of the semi hardy bush types, leaves are very soft and colorful.

This one will go in the ground come spring.

Simply know as Schefflera Spp. for now.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Palm crazy

[epiphyte]

That's a really nice looking Schefflera...those red veins are great. Hopefully it will survive your winters and grow during your summers.

Check out this photo of a Schefflera growing epiphytically and here's a photo of a giant Drynaria rigidula that's supporting a huge Schefflera.

So far the only Schefflera on my want list is Schefflera emarginata. It's supposed to be a fairly epiphytic species. But I'm sure that pretty much all Scheffleras would happily grow behind a Platycerium.