Copernicia baileyana in so cal

[Stevetoad]

Is anyone growing this here in SoCal? How slow are they out here, how cold can they take, how much sun ? Any info would be great.

[trioderob]

steve-

they are fricken slow

I got a fallensis - it only grows when its over 80f and i water the heck out of it.

at the coast - forget it.

[LJG]

It is not even close to true that they only grow at temps higher than 80. Mine grows through the winter - although maybe only an inch a month . They are very slow growers but cool tolerant and even handle some degrees below 32 as 2007 had shown. The secret I have found is lots of water, lots of K/Mag and well draining soil amended to be less acidic then normally found in SoCal.

[MattyB]

I was just looking at one of my C. baileyana yesterday. It's 6 years old, from seed I germinated, so it's no taller than 12" or so, but it's holding 2 spears at the same time so I think it's really happy now that it's been in the ground for 3 years. The leaves are incredibly stiff; it's so cool! It looks great and is a slow, but trouble free grower. I recommend this palm to anyone. Just have some patience.

[Geoff]

They actually tolerate much colder temps than that.. .had one in Thousand Oaks that did not even tip burn after 24F... though it was pretty darn slow.. my C gigas has done well with that freeze down to 25F for nearly half a day... did not show any freeze damage, either.. but what a slug.. .at its current rate, it will form a trunk sometime beyond the sun going super nova.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

They actually tolerate much colder temps than that.. .had one in Thousand Oaks that did not even tip burn after 24F... though it was pretty darn slow.. my C gigas has done well with that freeze down to 25F for nearly half a day... did not show any freeze damage, either.. but what a slug.. .at its current rate, it will form a trunk sometime beyond the sun going super nova.

Geoff, when your Copernecias experienced such cold undamaged, was there frost? I've never seen a Copernecia survive those temps here. I completely lost C. prunifera in that kind of event...but we had one hellava frost too (the 2nd night). I think many palms survive cold temps in SoCal because frost doesn't necessarily accompany the freeze. In contrast, virtually every freeze event here has frost at least one night. Many times, the first night is cold and accompanied by high winds and extremely low dewpoints (of course, its frost free), but the old fronds my Livistonas sometimes seem "freeze dried" when that happens. Of course, freeze dried the first night, frost the second, who knows...maybe its just the frost.

[aztropic]

Here's my Baily that I grew from seed;now in a 5 gallon pot.Unbelievably,it is already 10 years old but has been in a pot its whole life;sometimes underpotted - a good excuse for its size.It has survived high 20's F without any damage.Like Matty's,it always seems to have 2 spears at the ready.I'd really like to plunk it in the yard someday but space is limited - may have to take something else out to give it a try.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[trioderob]

you want these thing to grow put them in blazing heat - they come from Cuba not Norway

[DoomsDave]

Palm springs, they grow much faster there . . .

The PSSC meeting in November showcased a couple of gardens that had them.

Not fast, but nice.

[Stevetoad]

thanks for the info guys. im going to try a few small ones and see what happens.

[DALION]

I don't have the pic here at work but I believe Ralph Velez had one in the parkway out in front of his house.

[DALION]

I found a pick in another thread. Look at #2. http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=30198&hl=%2Bralph+%2BvelezI

[LJG]

I found a pick in another thread. Look at #2. http://www.palmtalk....=+ralph +velezI

It was also posted in this thread in post #5.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Bump! Q for folks in Socal, I've got a c. baileyana same size as post #7 above. I've got a place where I can really cook it under our kitchen window where it would be against a south facing wall getting reflective heat from our concrete patio courtyard with Summer temps into the 90's to low 100's every day, plus ample Winter sun and bone dry in the Winter.

If it's gonna take 20 years for it to make it to 6 feet up here in Central California, it would be a great candidate to plant it there. I just don't know what other sort of palm I could plant there because it gets so scorching hot there but height has to be about 6 feet or less. I've thought of sabal minor or one of the ground crawler braheas, but I've got those growing elsewhere.

[aztropic]

A super slow growing 'feather' type palm that will take that heat and not outgrow the area is Pseudophoenix sargentii.Mine survives reflected western sun and heat in the Arizona Desert.In the last 10 years,it has only gotten about 18 inches taller.Only problem might be finding one large enough for your area to start with.

{just another idea}

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[MattyB]

What about Allagoptera arenarium?

[sonoranfans]

baileys are slow anywhere in a pot, they just don't grow well in a pot. But I put a 12" overall bailey (in a 15 gallon) into a nice sunny spot 2 years ago and its over 3' tall and picking up speed it seems. Plenty of fertilizer(they are K pigs)and lots of sun and water and its looking like it may be taller than me in 2 years +/-. I remember some wise advice that these palms grow a HUGE root system before they pick up speed above the soil. Kind of hard to do that in a pot...

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

A super slow growing 'feather' type palm that will take that heat and not outgrow the area is Pseudophoenix sargentii.Mine survives reflected western sun and heat in the Arizona Desert.In the last 10 years,it has only gotten about 18 inches taller.Only problem might be finding one large enough for your area to start with.

{just another idea}

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Your Pseudophoenix sargentii looks incredible, that's a nice palm, and it looks cool to see a dainty tropical palm in a cactus landscape like that. If it only grew 18 inches the last 10 years in Arizona with Western exposure and reflected heat, then I'd be lucky to get 6 inches. I could just put in a plastic one, probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Or pay a small fortune for one 3/4th the size of yours.

What about Allagoptera arenarium?

Now that's a brilliant idea! I have one of these in a pot and was wondering where to put it. That would be perfect.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

baileys are slow anywhere in a pot, they just don't grow well in a pot. But I put a 12" overall bailey (in a 15 gallon) into a nice sunny spot 2 years ago and its over 3' tall and picking up speed it seems. Plenty of fertilizer(they are K pigs)and lots of sun and water and its looking like it may be taller than me in 2 years +/-. I remember some wise advice that these palms grow a HUGE root system before they pick up speed above the soil. Kind of hard to do that in a pot...

Yeah, and you are in Florida, copernicias are lighting fast down there but slow as molasses in California.

[JubaeaMan138]

Any updates on any so cal baileys?

[MattyB]

Buh bam!!!  That’s like over 7’ tall.  Frog and I are standing on the path that's a couple feet above where it's planted.

Edited November 7, 2017 by MattyB

[JubaeaMan138]

That is a beautiful thing right there! Any recommendations for me for winter? Mainly watering I keep reading keep them dry during winter. 

[Dave-Vero]

A great youngster.  It'll be really impressive soon. 

"Mine," installed at a local botanical garden after an inordinately long wait in a pot, is booming, about 4', even though hurricane Irma kind of knocked it over, and it will need support for a while.  

Frontier makes it cheap to visit, if you don't mind red-eye.  

[humangenomaproject]

Dang Matty. Prestoniana looks tight behind it as well!!

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

8 hours ago, MattyB said:

Buh bam!!!  That’s like over 7’ tall.  Frog and I are standing on the path that's a couple feet above where it's planted.

Looks great!

[aztropic]

On 7/6/2012 10:07:15, aztropic said:

Here's my Baily that I grew from seed;now in a 5 gallon pot.Unbelievably,it is already 10 years old but has been in a pot its whole life;sometimes underpotted - a good excuse for its size.It has survived high 20's F without any damage.Like Matty's,it always seems to have 2 spears at the ready.I'd really like to plunk it in the yard someday but space is limited - may have to take something else out to give it a try.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Same plant,now 15 years from seed.They really do grow alot faster in the ground.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Palm Tree Jim]

4 hours ago, aztropic said:

Same plant,now 15 years from seed.They really do grow alot faster in the ground.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

That has grown!

[Tracy]

On 11/6/2017, 8:54:58, MattyB said:

Buh bam!!!  That’s like over 7’ tall.  Frog and I are standing on the path that's a couple feet above where it's planted.

Very nice Matty!  How long has your C baileyana been in the ground now to get to that size?

I have two Copernecia hybrids (textilis = baileyana x hospita), one in my front yard and one in my back yard.  The smaller one in my front is pictured below.  Being in the coastal zone where we don't get much heat, going with something which potentially will get a boost in growth rate from hybrid vigor seemed the best option for me.  I'm happy with their growth, and have placed them such that they will continue to get a good deal of sun.

[Meangreen94z]

On 11/9/2017 at 5:08 AM, aztropic said:

Same plant,now 15 years from seed.They really do grow alot faster in the ground.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Any update?

[aztropic]

+2 more years of growth and growing like a weed.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Tracy]

1 hour ago, aztropic said:

+2 more years of growth and growing like a weed.

Not as fast as you are getting with the desert heat but I'm happy enough with the progress over 2 1/2 years with my C x textillis hybrids.  The smaller one in both the old and new photos.

 

On 11/9/2017 at 8:26 AM, Tracy said:

I have two Copernicia hybrids (textilis = baileyana x hospita), one in my front yard and one in my back yard.  The smaller one in my front is pictured below.  Being in the coastal zone where we don't get much heat, going with something which potentially will get a boost in growth rate from hybrid vigor seemed the best option for me.  I'm happy with their growth, and have placed them such that they will continue to get a good deal of sun.

 

[WaianaeCrider]

Doing great here on dry side of O`ahu.  Cell phone not showing what it looks like today sohere is an 11 year old photo.  Now the lowest fronds begin above my head.

[Tracy]

On 5/21/2020 at 9:23 PM, WaianaeCrider said:

Doing great here on dry side of O`ahu.  Cell phone not showing what it looks like today sohere is an 11 year old photo.  Now the lowest fronds begin above my head.

When you get a chance, you should get a current photo and post it.  The leaf color and pendant leaf tips don't look like Copernicia baileyana to me.  Perhaps if it isn't someone can help id it.  Even though both of mine are baileyana hybrids (Copernicia x textilis = baileyana x hospita), you can see how rigid the leaves are on mine as well as the "real thing" baileyana's in this post.  Got a photo of the one in the backyard this morning to post below.

[aztropic]

Does not appear to be a bailey to me either.Even grown in heavy shade,the petioles will be long but I have NEVER seen all the leaf tips droop.Fronds on a bailey should be stiff and straight with heavy BLACK spines along the petiole.

Additional pics will help narrow down the true identity of this tree, one way or another.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[WaianaeCrider]

2 hours ago, aztropic said:

Does not appear to be a bailey to me either.Even grown in heavy shade,the petioles will be long but I have NEVER seen all the leaf tips droop.Fronds on a bailey should be stiff and straight with heavy BLACK spines along the petiole.

Additional pics will help narrow down the true identity of this tree, one way or another.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

 

Got out my "better" camera and put the cell back in pocket.  Hope these help ID this palm.  Could limited water cause frond tips to hang?

 

 

[WaianaeCrider]

Just now, WaianaeCrider said:

Two photos would not load.  Got error message    -200    Anyone know what that means?

Just now, WaianaeCrider said:

 

[aztropic]

Error message 200 is an overload message.If you back out of the thread,then re enter,you should be able to load more pictures.

With this new set of pictures,it definitely appears to be a Copernicia of some sort.This species hybridizes very easily so it could be that coming into play, or it just may be from lack of moisture, grown under a very shady canopy.

I think it looks more like a Copernicia berteroana that I am growing from seed I collected in habitat in the Dominican Republic.It has less stiff fronds than a bailey and leaf tips do droop naturally.Here's a few pics of that palm to compare.Still no positive ID though...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[WaianaeCrider]

Mahalo for the info.  I'm in the prdocess of redoing my entire irrigation system.  Lets see what happens in a year.  LOL  Maybe they will "perk up".  LOL

Most of my "dry land" palms came from Kapoho Palms and perhaps they were not accurate on what they sold.  I know a few of my labeled Pritchardias don't match the discriptions.

Any who..lunch break over and back to pulling weeds on the Back Terrace.  Hope to have it done today.

[DoomsDave]

@MattyB, @LJG, @Geoff, any thoughts on what this is?

It's a Copie I got from MattyB a while back, I don't recall the species.

[Jan Jo]

On 5/22/2020 at 4:36 AM, aztropic said:

+2 more years of growth and growing like a weed.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

This is really incredible from the seedling pic you shared 7 years ago! It must love your heat... Obviously grows a lot faster once it's established... 

Mine has been in the ground 3 years now, it's the first summer I feel like there has been some (albeit very modest) progress...