Sick - CIDP and Livistona

[ericstevens73]

Ive been trying to post pictures but apparently my pics are too large and the system won't allow it...  I just have a normal HP camera, nothin fancy...

Anyhow, I have a couple of palms that are not doing so hot!  I asked questions previously about my Livistona Decipiens and got the reply that Livistonas are disease free and it had to be shock or something like that (all the fronds browned and dropped).  However, I believe it to be some sort of fungus in the crown.  As there are only 2 leaves/fronds left and they are rather shoty looking I thought I was in trouble.  But then a new spear appeared (I got all excited), it got about 18 inches out of the trunk, began to open, then at the base turned brown and now I can pull the tips right out of the base.  I poured a fungicide down the middle where the new spear is/was developing and I guess we'll see?  Any other ideas?

Also, my CIDP, in the front of my house...  I have 3, 2 that are the same age, and a tiny baby.  The 2 that are similar in age were basically identical twins until about 2 months ago when the one took a rather concerning turn.  The bottom cut bases of the fronds began to turn brown and basically shrivel up.  Then the first frond, the stem turned brownish yellow and the tips of the "leaves" began to turn yellowish and soon the entire frond was shriveled to less than half its earlier robust size.  I cut the affected fronds, gave fertilizer and lots of water and it just seems to continue ip the trunk (albeit the trunk is only about 16 inches tall).  We went from an unseasonably cool and wet Feb - April into an unseasonably hot and dry May-now (112F last Sunday) so I thought just the change in temps/sun were to blame.  But my other trees are fine, other CIDPs and Livistonas, Jubaeas, Caryota, even a Macrozamia (in full sun) etc...  Just these 2 are making me KRAZEEE!  The CIDP did have spots on some of the fronds prior to all of this, but so does my Butia and no issues there.  I am putting an album on webshots.  I include a photo of my healthy CIDP for reference, the trunk is beautiful green and the whole thing is sooooooo healthy.  I looked into fusarium and Leathal Yellowing , but the symptoms are not the same, the frond seems to die on one side and then the whole thing goes.  Mine, the stem turns brown, then the tips of the leaves, then the whole thing.  And I'm in central valley, California, just south of Modesto (well 90 miles anyway) and I didn't think we had LY. Help diagnosing would be so so so appreciated!  I just don't know what to do and would hate to lose the 2 years this thing has been in the ground.

The link to the webshots album is  

http://community.webshots.com/myphoto....=QWWEvi

[marcat]

My guess is the Livistonia has a drainage problem. But the CIDP has a more serious root problem. You have tried fungicide so maybe a strong systimic insecticide is called for. Any gophers around?

My two cents.

MarCat

[ericstevens73]

Thanks so much for your input...  I am greatful.  I believe you to have the answer at least to the CIDP issues.  With the other - there are 2 Livistonas 3 feet from each other and the other is quite fine.  So, I think drainage is not the issue.  But, I'm open to looking at anything and will certainly see if this is the issue...  

I took a good look at the situation around the CIDP and came to the conclusion that the ground around it is constantly WET.  And I mean Very wet...  I'm not sure how to solve the issue as my neighbor's drains from his lawn drain out right into the bed where my palm is planted.  I will continue with the anti-fungal and see what can be done about drying out the area...  As for the insecticide, I've heard this before in many cases, but hhat in the heck does this do for attacking a fungal disease???

Eric

Visalia, CA

[ericstevens73]

One other thing, Re: Gophers...  Yes, we have had them in the past.  Not on that side of the yard though, nor are there any other signs of a gopher anywhere near by.  I HATE THOSE LITTLE DIGGING CRITTERS!!!  They tear up everything.  I have a guy (I hide him in my basement) that'll kill any gophers for $30 apeice.  I've spent over $150 as of now, well alot more to replace/repair grass, trees, plants etc...  I think he plants them in my yard then charges me to get rid of them.

Eric

[marcat]

Gophers would only be a temporary damage. The insecticide is incase you have some sort of bug living in the palm mimicing fungus damage. Sorry to say if this is true the use of  a systimic only works  some of the time.

 Make a french drain at the base of the CIDP to drain the moister away from it might work. Or maybe before the source of water. Drainage could still be a prob for  the Livistonia dig a hole next to it close to the roots and see if the water drains away or not. The ground surounding a individual plant could be like a bowl hold ing water even though the surounding ground drains fine.

MarCat

[Stan]

You probably dont have to make a great effort at drainage since i have seen CIDP growing by creeks and ponds...just not the with the crown/base touching standing water.

[ericstevens73]

I had the "Yard Doctor" come by today to get an agressive regimen of fungicide going on both palms.  I really believe the Phoenix is shot but at least this way I can plant another without the same issue if I clear up the dirt with the problem fungus...  I'm sooooo ticked off about possibly loosing even one of my palms.  I guess I better get used to it if I plan on having more "marginal" species.  I get cold snaps and lots of cold, moist fog.  But, I want such a tropical looking landscape, and not even that, I want stuff no one else in my area has.

My wife thinks I so different (weird, strange, obsessed, insane, add whatever word).  This place (the IPS board) makes me feel normal - well kinda, but way more normal than say a Bo with his million or so types of palms - now he's obsessed!  My 50ish make me a palm interested guy, possibly a palm lover, when you get over say 200 you are obsessed, possibly posessed!

Any how, thanks for your assistance and insight.  I have many healthy and beloved plants.  I desire them to all be so happy.

Eric

[Kris]

Dear Eric Stevens,

Iam a new Member to this forum and i consider myself still a novis in matters of safe-guarding and protecting plants.

But i had similar problems with Royal palms,Areca Palms,Fish-Tail Palm. And you will be surprised to know that

my palms all were suffering due to over watering_ i.e we used to water our plants every alternate days.

without caring wheather the top soil is dry or not !

we did show our love by over watering our plants.then after losing a couple of exocitc palms like Sealing wax palm, etc.

i contacted my nursery man and he explained that roots also need to be clean and tidy.since i used mulch,loam,red soil,

clay and Dried cow dung manure. all these items made the soil almost air tight and a breading ground for insects, fungus and even Mashrooms.

What is lost is lost,but those that are alive were saved by just

removing the soil around the stem to about 2 inches down and

3 feet in circumfrence. and i gave a mild copper based fungicide treatment  for a month. as and when there was need to water the sick palms.

And a result  i saved the rest of the sick palms from departing from us.

and every 6 to 8 months i give my palms magenisium sulphate

fertilizer shots in mild dosage since now my soil is a bit more

washed river sand,it needs more frequent N-P-K fertilizers.

but you guys are lucky to have all palm fertilizers at your place.

In India we do not get ready made "all Palm Fertilizers " so we prepare them to our requirements.its bit difficult to get proper N-P-K ratios.

Now to your Sick_Can Can (Mr Canary) that what we call in india it is rare not popularly grown since coco nucifera is considered very ospecious.but i have a couple of can can at

my residence 1 in ground and other in 5 gallon Barrel.

Your pic in webshots gallery is life like and it is a clear indication of over watering and root rot leading to fungus attack.

Solution: Cut off water supply reaching from you neighbour.

water you palms only when the soil around the stem is visibly dry.water only once or twice a week with mild copper or sulphur based fungicide and remove any mulch,clay or organic manure around the foot of can can.

slightly remove the top soil as i did to my plam and fill with river washed sandy soil that is very porous and not sticky.

if it is raining them erect 4 wooden poles around and place a

transparent plastic sheet which would act as rain coat and remove this when not raining.

this method should work and if you have rodents digging up the garden then check wheather they have any accesses to

your can can's roots.in that case it is very difficult task of saving those palms.

it is time for you to act if not you will have to lose those magnificent palms.

And another thing i noticed that the other can-can near your house could have bean placed in a different location.since

Canary palm,chelian wine palm,date palms are better far away from building structures. they tend become problematic

as they reach 12 feet and above.

Since it needs lot of maintanence like cleaning the dried leaves

spraying pesticides etc and last but not the least thier roots

dig their way to your pool,crack you house flooring and side walks and seweage tanks and pipes.

in your case a cycas revoulta near the house would be hassel free !

Dear eric always plant palms in pits 2x2x3 feet pits minimum

with predoniment fine river sand and in containers too it should be free draining. since all palms of phoenix flourish well in zone 9 to 11. due to hot summer season and they are natives to near desert conditions_Eg Moracco,libya,s.mediterian countries etc where they flourish

without much maintainance and care.

Now i think i have spoke enough in spite of the above treatment for one month did not pay much use, then contact your nearest nursery-Man.

Note : never try deep drip irrigation on phoenix varieties it will result in the problem you are facing. just a bucket of water with mild copper based fungicide solution_once or twice a week.using this water wet the surrounding region of the stem.

Never pour water or any solution on its leaf.keep the area around the stem dry and clean.at least till it recovers and feed with magenisium shots when the palm reachs normalcy.

Bye For Now and my best wishes for your  can-cans speedy recovery.

Love,

Kris Achar (Kris to all My friends ).