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Pseudophoenix sargentii in CA


MattyB

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Pseudophoenix sargentii seems to be a reliable grower for our climate here in CA, albiet slow. I thought I'd lay out a timeline on this one.

Here's a P. sargentii that I grew from seed. It's 4 years old.

post-126-067663000 1334590754_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 2

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Dam! I want one but I can wait 4 years for a seedling. Going to have to buy big. Didn't realize how slow they grow.

Edited by Palmlover
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Here's my largest P. sargentii, in the ground for 3 years from a 2 gallon pot.

I'd estimate that from the seedling size, pictured in post 1, to get to the 2 gallon pot, it was about 2-3 years. So, 4 (seed to 1 gal) + 3 (1 gal to 2 gal) + 3 (in ground to pic) = approximately 10 years old from seed to get to a P. sargentii like this.

Oh yeah, I just remembered a question I wanted to ask some of you Florida people. Can you tell if this Pseudophoenix sargentii is of any sub-variety or just regular or??? I guess there's different varieties? Any additional info would be greatly appreciated.

post-126-047044800 1334590797_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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In 15 years you may not be able to stand there and get such a clear shot.

Well, maybe 20 years...:unsure:

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Yeah, hopefully that's true, if my P. vinifera keeps growing. For those of you who haven't committed to memory every nook and cranny of my yard, Bill is refering to the planter that I'm standing in with a tiny P. vinifera that I'm standing over while taking this pic. I thought that it might be stalling out and dying, but low and behold there's another spear pushing. 6 years from seed, 3 years in the ground, it's not winning any speed awards, that's for sure. But I was told that we cannot grow P. vinifera here in CA, so at least so far I'm proving them wrong.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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I agree with Palmlover, gonna need to spend some coin, instead of waiting 10yrs for a 5gal size plant. This is one I really want to try out at my new location/house.

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Hahaha I was actually talking about that eckmanii getting in your way... The vinifera is a futile effort.........

Just kiddin dude, go for it.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Had a big one imported (vinifera)... never made it... or more accurately... still dying. :(

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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See, that's why I can't take you guys' word for it. All of those P. vinifera were grown in a more tropical and humid climate. Problems can be attributed to acclimation issues and a plant that is so slow growing that it cannot make up new leaves at the same rate it's loosing them. Mine was grown from seed, in CA from day one, and is alive after 3 CA winters, even as a teeny tiny plant. I'm hoping that as it ages it only gets stronger and stronger.

I think the same thing is happening with a lot of Foxtail palms. They import them from Florida, in huge quanitites for the big box stores, and they look deep green and tropical but as soon as people buy them and plant them out the plant goes, "aaaaaaccckkkkk" and shocks and dies. The Foxtails that I've grown from seed have been out in full sun from a 1 gallon size and they seem to do fine, other than winter leaf spotting.

  • Upvote 1

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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I agree with Palmlover, gonna need to spend some coin, instead of waiting 10yrs for a 5gal size plant. This is one I really want to try out at my new location/house.

Yes, costs on these have come down down down. I bought a pair of these (~25 gal size, maybe 8 ft OA @ $100 each) to keep in pots around the pool and the dang pots I wanted were going cost as much as the palms. Hard to justify that, so a couple of those $25 fiberglass "fake" pottery pots from WalMart did the trick.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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See, that's why I can't take you guys' word for it. All of those P. vinifera were grown in a more tropical and humid climate. Problems can be attributed to acclimation issues and a plant that is so slow growing that it cannot make up new leaves at the same rate it's loosing them. Mine was grown from seed, in CA from day one, and is alive after 3 CA winters, even as a teeny tiny plant. I'm hoping that as it ages it only gets stronger and stronger.

I think the same thing is happening with a lot of Foxtail palms. They import them from Florida, in huge quanitites for the big box stores, and they look deep green and tropical but as soon as people buy them and plant them out the plant goes, "aaaaaaccckkkkk" and shocks and dies. The Foxtails that I've grown from seed have been out in full sun from a 1 gallon size and they seem to do fine, other than winter leaf spotting.

I think it's because we get too impatint having them in the pots ( except for Bill ) and we stick them in the ground and watch them fry without proper acclimation. I'm trying to germinate seeds for the first time the legit way and i like it. Do you think it would have the same cold tolorance if you bought it big and took care of it for as long as it took you to grow it to a 2 gal, then you planted it?

Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

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In my opinion growing from seed doesn't increase the cold tolerance of the palm, it just subjects it to it's ultimate climate from day one. So to answer your question: Yes, I think that a large palm, imported from a more tropical climate such as Hawaii or Florida would ultimately have the same cold tolerance as a locally seed grown palm of the same species, but it would be more sensitive immediately after importation and that's the acclimation period that is so difficult to get through sometimes.

  • Upvote 1

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Matt, so when importing plants to California from those tropical states are you implying that they wouls best survive if imported at the end of winter so they are here for 9+ months before they see a winter?

Leo

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Oh yeah, I just remembered a question I wanted to ask some of you Florida people. Can you tell if this Pseudophoenix sargentii is of any sub-variety or just regular or??? I guess there's different varieties? Any additional info would be greatly appreciated.

At that size,you can't tell.The variety 'navassana' differs from a standard in that it looks a little more robust and supposedly grows a little faster.Trunk ring scars may be 4 or 5 inches apart from each other while a standards scars may be only an inch or two.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Edited by aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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Matt, so when importing plants to California from those tropical states are you implying that they wouls best survive if imported at the end of winter so they are here for 9+ months before they see a winter?

Leo

I think so.

Thanks for the response AZTropic! :D

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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An additional timeline view...

I'm getting ready to break down a community pot of Pseudophoenix sargentii. The stats: out of 100 seeds I planted in August of 2008,there currently are 37 survivors about a foot tall going into 1 gallon size pots where they will reside for the next 5 or 6 years.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

post-236-081265300 1335112887_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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After 10 years of growth in the Arizona desert,most sargentii's are only about 3 feet tall with bases that measure 1 1/4 inches.In a tropical climate,I believe the timeline could be cut in half.Still,a very slow growing palm to be sure.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

post-236-002115400 1335113485_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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Thanks for the post Matty, I have two of these in the ground for about three years and they're only about 12 inches high with only two leaves. I was going to move them to a spot with filtered sun rather than full sun hoping they would grow a little faster but, after reading your post, I think I'll leave them right where they are and basically forget about them. They're so slow. Peter

Peter

hot and humid, short rainy season May through October, 14* latitude, 90* longitude

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After 10 years of growth in the Arizona desert,most sargentii's are only about 3 feet tall with bases that measure 1 1/4 inches.In a tropical climate,I believe the timeline could be cut in half.Still,a very slow growing palm to be sure.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

It looks like you have too many. I am more than willing to help you by taking a couple off your hands.

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  • 1 year later...

Last August i bought this big one from a spanish nursery, greenhouse grown. As it arrived and began its acclimatizing process, it stood without any noticed growth. I was not advised for its specific culture requirements, so i bought the pot inside when temps dropped to upper 30s. But i am afraid i have overwatered it during the winter and the leaves started showing dry brown.

The spear is about to open and looks healthy.

I wonder how will it finish the acclimatizing process...

post-3292-0-90830000-1393343269_thumb.jp

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Here's the update on mine pictured above. It's really doing well, standing at least 5 feet tall. I love this palm.

post-126-0-68998700-1393358899_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 3

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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I luv em aswell

Ive got seven in the ground already....

post-3028-0-30570300-1393365761_thumb.jp

post-3028-0-19679100-1393365778_thumb.jp

  • Upvote 1

Brandon, FL

27.95°N 82.28°W (Elev. 62 ft)

Zone9 w/ canopy

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'Well' by all means, but not perfect; I see extended brown tipping, maybe in poorer more freely draining soil it would do even better.

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Last August i bought this big one from a spanish nursery, greenhouse grown. As it arrived and began its acclimatizing process, it stood without any noticed growth. I was not advised for its specific culture requirements, so i bought the pot inside when temps dropped to upper 30s. But i am afraid i have overwatered it during the winter and the leaves started showing dry brown.

The spear is about to open and looks healthy.

I wonder how will it finish the acclimatizing process...

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

I am sorry i choosed the wrong topic. This one is pseudophoenix vinifera.
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The brown tipping is probably from San Diego water. Our tap water is some of the worst as it has a tremendous amount of minerals and salts in it. Virtually everyone in San Diego drinks bottled water or has a reverse osmosis system under their sink. I don't think the plants like it anymore than we do.

Patrick

Bonita, California (San Diego)

Zone 10B

10 Year Low of 29 degrees

6 Miles from San Diego Bay

Mild winters, somewhat warm summers

10 Miles North of Mexico/USA Border

1 acre

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Here's the update on mine pictured above. It's really doing well, standing at least 5 feet tall. I love this palm.

Curious Matty; does yours do better than one frond a year? Mine keeps plugging away. Just wondering if yours does better with your heat.

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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This is my largest P. sargentii planted on a south facing full sun exposure. It was planted as a 5 gallon approx. 15 years ago and is producing seed for the second time. It is approx.7' tall to the meristem and has been a problem free palm.

post-370-0-16004100-1393393021_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Jeffry Brusseau

"Cuesta Linda"

Vista, California

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Jeff, it might be flowering but it hasn't set seed. Maybe with this mellow winter the seed will set and turn red. That might be a first in SoCal.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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'Well' by all means, but not perfect; I see extended brown tipping, maybe in poorer more freely draining soil it would do even better.

Hmmm, maybe. I assumed that the brown tipping was from lack of water because my soil is extremely well draining in this spot, where it sits atop a dry rock pile. I only water it once every few weeks, even in the hot summer. You really think I should maybe water it less?

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Here's the update on mine pictured above. It's really doing well, standing at least 5 feet tall. I love this palm.

Curious Matty; does yours do better than one frond a year? Mine keeps plugging away. Just wondering if yours does better with your heat.

Bret,

I haven't kept track, but it does make more than 1 leaf per year. Probably about 2 leaves per year I'd guess.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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'Well' by all means, but not perfect; I see extended brown tipping, maybe in poorer more freely draining soil it would do even better.

Hmmm, maybe. I assumed that the brown tipping was from lack of water because my soil is extremely well draining in this spot, where it sits atop a dry rock pile. I only water it once every few weeks, even in the hot summer. You really think I should maybe water it less?

Ah, a very difficult question to be answered with certainty, because every plant has to reach each own 'equilibrium', which further depends solely on the prevailing conditions in every particular place. I am not famliar with your climate Matty (though I think I have a vague idea about it compared to mine). I can only tell you my own experience with this specimen; It used to grow very well (potted) in shade (not deep though, but root zone protected), in summer mean temps about 35 C during day light (in shade) and around 25 C during night, in air moisture slightly below 50% and with medium really very dry full of quarz -sand (sticking your finger in to pot-soil you could not feel any moisture!).

Edited by Phoenikakias
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... and what is the granulometry of the sand please? You have also to consider that during your rainy and cool season you have absolutely no control over the quantity and frequency of water every palm receives, just dig a few cm below surface of fine sand on a beach during summer (where the wave occasionally reaches inland) and feel the moisture, while at same time surface is hot and dry. On the other hand perform same experiment on a part of a beach, where shingle is accumulated of irregular shape but with a granulometry and above... Just my two cents.

Edited by Phoenikakias
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One or two leaves a year? You guys are one patient lot, I'll say that.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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... and what is the granulometry of the sand please? You have also to consider that during your rainy and cool season you have absolutely no control over the quantity and frequency of water every palm receives, just dig a few cm below surface of fine sand on a beach during summer (where the wave occasionally reaches inland) and feel the moisture, while at same time surface is hot and dry. On the other hand perform same experiment on a part of a beach, where shingle is accumulated of irregular shape but with a granulometry and above... Just my two cents.

If it rains for consecutive 50 days the soil has to be wet, but it is draining quite well.

At least my double dypsis decipiens (a palm that hates wet feet) is laughing and growing like a weed.

So i think i am gonna have no soil issue with the pseudophoenix, maybe others, not this one.

Anyway, thanks for your advised tips.

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  • 2 years later...

Here it is today.  P. sargentii on the L.  P. ekmanii center.  P. vinifera on the R.

IMG_1886.JPG

  • Upvote 7

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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On 4/16/2012, 11:11:10, BS Man about Palms said:

The vinifera is a futile effort.........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kiddin dude, go for it.

 

25 minutes ago, MattyB said:

Here it is today.  P. sargentii on the L.  P. ekmanii center.  P. vinifera on the R.

IMG_1886.JPG

So Bill, do you have anything you want to say to Matty???  I couldn't resist. They all look healthy Matty, but definitely a speed difference among the species.  It makes me not feel guilty about splurging for something with some size when I planted my sargentii ssp saonae var navasana a few years back.  Its not speedy, but a plant that even non-palm people sometimes ask about when passing by my front yard.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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