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Don't be a heel,


peachy

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For the life of me, I can't tell a tiller from a heel. Are they in fact one and the same thing or is a heel something different altogether. Come on smarties, help a girl out here. Replies with photos would be greatly appreciated.

Peachy

I came. I saw. I purchased

 

 

27.35 south.

Warm subtropical, with occasional frosts.

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Same thing Peachy. One describes what it looks like, the other describes what it does..

The general point is any palm with a "heel" will grow, or push DOWN.. as, or before, it grows UP. (thus tillering)

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Till the morning comes

Till there was you

etc... :blink:

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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Un-till tomorrow?

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Same thing Peachy. One describes what it looks like, the other describes what it does..

The general point is any palm with a "heel" will grow, or push DOWN.. as, or before, it grows UP. (thus tillering)

When planting a palm with a heel, do you try to leave the heel exposed or fill it in with dirt?

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On the same subject of heels, what happens if you cut/break off the heel? Since the terminal end of the heel is the oldest part and the palm has tons of additional roots, will this cause a problem for the palm? I am still a little green strap seedling so I need some educating.

Leo

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Same thing Peachy. One describes what it looks like, the other describes what it does..

The general point is any palm with a "heel" will grow, or push DOWN.. as, or before, it grows UP. (thus tillering)

Peachy - Actually its shaped more like a saxophone. The "heel" is the seen or above the ground portion. :interesting:

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

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Leo -- Don't mutilate your palms. I don't know if it would affect the roots, but why subject your palm to an opening for infection.

Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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Leo -- Don't mutilate your palms. I don't know if it would affect the roots, but why subject your palm to an opening for infection.

Kim, that was not my intention with the question. I don't have any plans to lop off the heel of my 24" boxed D. decipiens to see what happens. I was more a question to found out would that make the palm tiller less. Since mature palms do not have the heel and survive, does removing the heel before the palm does it cause harm. Again, I have no intentions on doing this just morbid curiosity.

Leo

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I am now more confused than ever.

Can anybody provide clear photos of good examples of both heels and tillering?

-Erik

"Ph'nglui mglw'napalma Funkthulhu R'Lincolnea wgah'palm fhtagn"
"In his house at Lincoln, dread Funkthulhu plants palm trees."

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I am now more confused than ever.

Can anybody provide clear photos of good examples of both heels and tillering?

-Erik

Erik, a heel is a root that is often exposed to the air(above ground). This "heel" looks like a miniature bike ramp--not like your standard root. Tillering is the term given to a palm that actually "tills" into the ground--digging itself deeper, rather than the normal "climbing out of the ground" that most palms do. This heel can be broken off and often there is no damage. You can also plant the palm heel above ground--don't try to put this root underground when it's already above ground, in the pot.

Example of a tiller palm: Dypsis robusta

Example of a "climbing out of the ground" palm: Bismarckia nobilis

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The heel is not a root. And breaking off a heel on a young palm will kill it if enough is removed. Better to let nature take its course and let it rot away.

Phil Bergman explained it best another time this question was asked. Paraphrasing he stated the heel is like your lower leg with your knee bending and pushing into the ground.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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The heel is not a root. And breaking off a heel on a young palm will kill it if enough is removed. Better to let nature take its course and let it rot away.

Phil Bergman explained it best another time this question was asked. Paraphrasing he stated the heel is like your lower leg with your knee bending and pushing into the ground.

What??? Your right, it's not a "root" but what the heck was that other jargon? And I don't advocate breaking a heel off whether an old heel or new.

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it's like a fluttering butterfy, drinking the nectar of a flower, dipping, dipping down, suckling the sweet mother's milk of nature before floating off into the sunset of painted beauty forevermore. That's a heal.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Funk,

Here is a photo of a seedling that is tillering. The heel is the brown bark-like organ to the left of the stem.

2803928720046669270S600x600Q85.jpg

Jason

Skell's Bells

 

 

Inland Central Florida, 28N, 81W. Humid-subtropical climate with occasional frosts and freezes. Zone 9b.

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The heel is not a root. And breaking off a heel on a young palm will kill it if enough is removed. Better to let nature take its course and let it rot away.

Phil Bergman explained it best another time this question was asked. Paraphrasing he stated the heel is like your lower leg with your knee bending and pushing into the ground.

What??? Your right, it's not a "root" but what the heck was that other jargon? And I don't advocate breaking a heel off whether an old heel or new.

Between you falsely telling people it "is a root that is often exposed to the air" and me doing such a terrible job paraphrasing I figured I would search for Phils description:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=2805&view=findpost&p=49624

"If you think of the bottom of a new seedling's roots as being your foot while standing, now flex your knee to put your heel against your buttocks. Your foot is the heel and your thight & knee become the subteranian shaft that one sees when digging a species like Rhopalostylis.

Phil. "

Hope that helps.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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That's the most helpful photo so far.

Getting in a whole bunch of palms from Hawaii this week, (bare-root) so you can see, anato-mee . . .

(start ham-boning here)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYQWsebvY7A

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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I always thought of a heel as a proto-trunk, rather than a root. Look at a Sabal palmetto seedling, for the life of me I couldn't find the heel, until I dug one up. The base of the palm dug itself about a foot into the ground, and at the same time it was growing in size, but the heel kept very tightly close to the trunk.

Peachy, try pushing a tiller wearing your high heels. :D

Frank

 

Zone 9b pine flatlands

humid/hot summers; dry/cool winters

with yearly freezes

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The heel is not a root. And breaking off a heel on a young palm will kill it if enough is removed. Better to let nature take its course and let it rot away.

Phil Bergman explained it best another time this question was asked. Paraphrasing he stated the heel is like your lower leg with your knee bending and pushing into the ground.

What??? Your right, it's not a "root" but what the heck was that other jargon? And I don't advocate breaking a heel off whether an old heel or new.

Between you falsely telling people it "is a root that is often exposed to the air" and me doing such a terrible job paraphrasing I figured I would search for Phils description:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=2805&view=findpost&p=49624

"If you think of the bottom of a new seedling's roots as being your foot while standing, now flex your knee to put your heel against your buttocks. Your foot is the heel and your thight & knee become the subteranian shaft that one sees when digging a species like Rhopalostylis.

Phil. "

Hope that helps.

Phil has a high butt, so that only makes sense to him. One time I saw him scratch it by reaching over his shoulder.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Heel have to go - Jim Reeves

Highway to Heel - AC/DC

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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Same thing Peachy. One describes what it looks like, the other describes what it does..

The general point is any palm with a "heel" will grow, or push DOWN.. as, or before, it grows UP. (thus tillering)

When planting a palm with a heel, do you try to leave the heel exposed or fill it in with dirt?

"WHERE" or what level to plant it on depends GREATLY on your soil... if its all fluff, leaf litter, mulch etc. It does not matter much... BUT a harder soil like clay or similar poor draining soil OFTEN results in ROT...... because it WILL PUSH DOWN, so thats why if given the opportunity you should almost always mound plant a heeled palm.

And I just made a movie to explain this... stay tuned.. :P

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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At test..

Something changed that will NOT allow me to make the pretty you tube box display and its making me MAD :rant:

Might be my new computer.. I'm logging out to try the old one..

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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bleah as dave would say

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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poopity poop poop EDITORS / MODERATORS Please delete posts #23 and 24

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Thanks Bill that actually explained why I lose so many little dypsis seedlings. Gee I didnt know you had an american accent :o

Peachy

I came. I saw. I purchased

 

 

27.35 south.

Warm subtropical, with occasional frosts.

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it's like a fluttering butterfy, drinking the nectar of a flower, dipping, dipping down, suckling the sweet mother's milk of nature before floating off into the sunset of painted beauty forevermore. That's a heal.

Oh, so poetic. I'd love to be a heel.

William

Hana, Maui

 

Land of the low lying heavens, the misty Uakea crowning the majestic Kauwiki.

Visit my palms here

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Thanks Bill that actually explained why I lose so many little dypsis seedlings. Gee I didnt know you had an american accent :o

Peachy

Happy to help Peachy... yup, thats me a Yank down under... ? :)

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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