Jump to content


RarePalmSeeds

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

The IPS has issued the expected revised "Terms of Service" - Effective Immediately - Please read more in an explanatory topic HERE.

******************************

NEW "TERMS OF SERVICE"


Photo

Don't be a heel,


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 peachy

peachy

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 2,736 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Queensland Australia

Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:36 PM

For the life of me, I can't tell a tiller from a heel. Are they in fact one and the same thing or is a heel something different altogether. Come on smarties, help a girl out here. Replies with photos would be greatly appreciated.
Peachy
  • 0
I came. I saw. I purchased


27.35 south.
Warm subtropical, with occasional frosts.

PalmTalk Advertising

#2 BS Man about Palms

BS Man about Palms

    This TVR is trapped in my garage by PALMS!

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oceanside, CA.

Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:52 PM

Same thing Peachy. One describes what it looks like, the other describes what it does..

The general point is any palm with a "heel" will grow, or push DOWN.. as, or before, it grows UP. (thus tillering)
  • 0
Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#3 Walter John

Walter John

    explorer

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 13,823 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunshine Coast Hinterland, Queensland , Australia

Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:27 PM

Till the morning comes
Till there was you
etc... :blink:
  • 0

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal
Queensland, Australia.


#4 Jeff Searle

Jeff Searle

    Camp #3- Marojejy Mtns.

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 9,521 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Florida

Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:32 AM

Un-till tomorrow?
  • 0
Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.
and The Rainforest Collection.
Southwest Ranches,Fl.

#5 Palmlover

Palmlover

    Rank: JUVENILE

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 426 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntington Beach, CA. Zone 10a

Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:29 AM

Same thing Peachy. One describes what it looks like, the other describes what it does..

The general point is any palm with a "heel" will grow, or push DOWN.. as, or before, it grows UP. (thus tillering)



When planting a palm with a heel, do you try to leave the heel exposed or fill it in with dirt?
  • 0

#6 DALION

DALION

    Rank: TRUNKING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 632 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, CA

Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:15 AM

On the same subject of heels, what happens if you cut/break off the heel? Since the terminal end of the heel is the oldest part and the palm has tons of additional roots, will this cause a problem for the palm? I am still a little green strap seedling so I need some educating.

Leo
  • 0

#7 Moose

Moose

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 4,691 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Coral Gables, FL

Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:57 AM

Same thing Peachy. One describes what it looks like, the other describes what it does..

The general point is any palm with a "heel" will grow, or push DOWN.. as, or before, it grows UP. (thus tillering)




Peachy - Actually its shaped more like a saxophone. The "heel" is the seen or above the ground portion. :interesting:
  • 0
Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

#8 Kim

Kim

    Learning by heart

  • IPS DIRECTOR
  • 5,211 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:San Diego, California USA and Pahoa, Hawaii USA

Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:11 AM

Leo -- Don't mutilate your palms. I don't know if it would affect the roots, but why subject your palm to an opening for infection.
  • 0

Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, USA
All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental
anm23bea44cd09109b5.gif


#9 DALION

DALION

    Rank: TRUNKING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 632 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, CA

Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:30 AM

Leo -- Don't mutilate your palms. I don't know if it would affect the roots, but why subject your palm to an opening for infection.



Kim, that was not my intention with the question. I don't have any plans to lop off the heel of my 24" boxed D. decipiens to see what happens. I was more a question to found out would that make the palm tiller less. Since mature palms do not have the heel and survive, does removing the heel before the palm does it cause harm. Again, I have no intentions on doing this just morbid curiosity.

Leo
  • 0

#10 Funkthulhu

Funkthulhu

    Rank: TRUNKING

  • FORUM MEMBER
  • 539 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Omaha, NE

Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:00 AM

I am now more confused than ever.

Can anybody provide clear photos of good examples of both heels and tillering?

-Erik
  • 0

"Ph'nglui mglw'napalma Funkthulhu R'Omahaea wgah'palm fhtagn"
"In his house at Omaha, dread Funkthulhu plants palm trees."


#11 Mandrew968

Mandrew968

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 3,607 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cutler Bay, South Florida

Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:14 AM

I am now more confused than ever.

Can anybody provide clear photos of good examples of both heels and tillering?

-Erik


Erik, a heel is a root that is often exposed to the air(above ground). This "heel" looks like a miniature bike ramp--not like your standard root. Tillering is the term given to a palm that actually "tills" into the ground--digging itself deeper, rather than the normal "climbing out of the ground" that most palms do. This heel can be broken off and often there is no damage. You can also plant the palm heel above ground--don't try to put this root underground when it's already above ground, in the pot.

Example of a tiller palm: Dypsis robusta

Example of a "climbing out of the ground" palm: Bismarckia nobilis
  • 0

#12 LJG

LJG

    Lavoixia macrocarpa

  • IPS DIRECTOR
  • 6,239 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vista, CA

Posted 11 April 2012 - 09:38 AM

The heel is not a root. And breaking off a heel on a young palm will kill it if enough is removed. Better to let nature take its course and let it rot away.

Phil Bergman explained it best another time this question was asked. Paraphrasing he stated the heel is like your lower leg with your knee bending and pushing into the ground.
  • 0
Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)
Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."
-- Alfred Austin

#13 Mandrew968

Mandrew968

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 3,607 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cutler Bay, South Florida

Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:13 AM

The heel is not a root. And breaking off a heel on a young palm will kill it if enough is removed. Better to let nature take its course and let it rot away.

Phil Bergman explained it best another time this question was asked. Paraphrasing he stated the heel is like your lower leg with your knee bending and pushing into the ground.


What??? Your right, it's not a "root" but what the heck was that other jargon? And I don't advocate breaking a heel off whether an old heel or new.
  • 0

#14 MattyB

MattyB

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,695 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spring Valley, CA (San Diego County)

Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:23 AM

it's like a fluttering butterfy, drinking the nectar of a flower, dipping, dipping down, suckling the sweet mother's milk of nature before floating off into the sunset of painted beauty forevermore. That's a heal.
  • 0
Matt Bradford
"Manambe Lavaka"
Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

#15 Jason in Orlando

Jason in Orlando

    Rank: TRUNKING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 543 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orlando, Florida (USDA 9b)

Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:39 AM

Funk,

Here is a photo of a seedling that is tillering. The heel is the brown bark-like organ to the left of the stem.


Posted Image


Jason
  • 0
Skell's Bells


Inland Central Florida, 28N, 81W. Humid-subtropical climate with occasional frosts and freezes. Zone 9b.

#16 LJG

LJG

    Lavoixia macrocarpa

  • IPS DIRECTOR
  • 6,239 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vista, CA

Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:32 AM


The heel is not a root. And breaking off a heel on a young palm will kill it if enough is removed. Better to let nature take its course and let it rot away.

Phil Bergman explained it best another time this question was asked. Paraphrasing he stated the heel is like your lower leg with your knee bending and pushing into the ground.


What??? Your right, it's not a "root" but what the heck was that other jargon? And I don't advocate breaking a heel off whether an old heel or new.


Between you falsely telling people it "is a root that is often exposed to the air" and me doing such a terrible job paraphrasing I figured I would search for Phils description:

http://www.palmtalk....indpost&p=49624


"If you think of the bottom of a new seedling's roots as being your foot while standing, now flex your knee to put your heel against your buttocks.  Your foot is the heel and your thight & knee become the subteranian shaft that one sees when digging a species like Rhopalostylis.
Phil. "

Hope that helps.
  • 0
Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)
Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."
-- Alfred Austin

#17 DoomsDave

DoomsDave

    Dave of the Dead

  • IPS DIRECTOR
  • 20,099 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:La Habra, California, USA

Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:38 AM

That's the most helpful photo so far.

Getting in a whole bunch of palms from Hawaii this week, (bare-root) so you can see, anato-mee . . .

(start ham-boning here)


  • 0

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.


#18 Trópico

Trópico

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 2,171 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orlando, FL

Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:47 PM

I always thought of a heel as a proto-trunk, rather than a root. Look at a Sabal palmetto seedling, for the life of me I couldn't find the heel, until I dug one up. The base of the palm dug itself about a foot into the ground, and at the same time it was growing in size, but the heel kept very tightly close to the trunk.
Peachy, try pushing a tiller wearing your high heels. :D
  • 0
Frank

Zone 9b pine flatlands
humid/hot summers; dry/cool winters
with yearly freezes

#19 MattyB

MattyB

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,695 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spring Valley, CA (San Diego County)

Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:00 PM



The heel is not a root. And breaking off a heel on a young palm will kill it if enough is removed. Better to let nature take its course and let it rot away.

Phil Bergman explained it best another time this question was asked. Paraphrasing he stated the heel is like your lower leg with your knee bending and pushing into the ground.


What??? Your right, it's not a "root" but what the heck was that other jargon? And I don't advocate breaking a heel off whether an old heel or new.


Between you falsely telling people it "is a root that is often exposed to the air" and me doing such a terrible job paraphrasing I figured I would search for Phils description:

http://www.palmtalk....indpost&p=49624


"If you think of the bottom of a new seedling's roots as being your foot while standing, now flex your knee to put your heel against your buttocks.  Your foot is the heel and your thight & knee become the subteranian shaft that one sees when digging a species like Rhopalostylis.
Phil. "

Hope that helps.


Phil has a high butt, so that only makes sense to him. One time I saw him scratch it by reaching over his shoulder.
  • 0
Matt Bradford
"Manambe Lavaka"
Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)
10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)
9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

#20 Jastin

Jastin

    Rank: FLOWERING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 1,374 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oceanside, CA - 5.5 miles from the beach

Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:04 PM

That's impressive
  • 0
Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

#21 Walter John

Walter John

    explorer

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 13,823 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunshine Coast Hinterland, Queensland , Australia

Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

Heel have to go - Jim Reeves
Highway to Heel - AC/DC
  • 0

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal
Queensland, Australia.


#22 BS Man about Palms

BS Man about Palms

    This TVR is trapped in my garage by PALMS!

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oceanside, CA.

Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:00 PM


Same thing Peachy. One describes what it looks like, the other describes what it does..

The general point is any palm with a "heel" will grow, or push DOWN.. as, or before, it grows UP. (thus tillering)



When planting a palm with a heel, do you try to leave the heel exposed or fill it in with dirt?



"WHERE" or what level to plant it on depends GREATLY on your soil... if its all fluff, leaf litter, mulch etc. It does not matter much... BUT a harder soil like clay or similar poor draining soil OFTEN results in ROT...... because it WILL PUSH DOWN, so thats why if given the opportunity you should almost always mound plant a heeled palm.

And I just made a movie to explain this... stay tuned.. :P
  • 0
Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#23 BS Man about Palms

BS Man about Palms

    This TVR is trapped in my garage by PALMS!

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oceanside, CA.

Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:44 PM

At test..

http://www.youtube.c...eature=youtu.be


Something changed that will NOT allow me to make the pretty you tube box display and its making me MAD :rant:

Might be my new computer.. I'm logging out to try the old one..
  • 0
Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#24 BS Man about Palms

BS Man about Palms

    This TVR is trapped in my garage by PALMS!

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oceanside, CA.

Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:57 PM

bleah as dave would say





  • 0
Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#25 BS Man about Palms

BS Man about Palms

    This TVR is trapped in my garage by PALMS!

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oceanside, CA.

Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:23 PM

poopity poop poop EDITORS / MODERATORS Please delete posts #23 and 24


  • 0
Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#26 peachy

peachy

    Rank: SETTING SEED

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 2,736 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Queensland Australia

Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:41 PM

Thanks Bill that actually explained why I lose so many little dypsis seedlings. Gee I didnt know you had an american accent :o
Peachy
  • 0
I came. I saw. I purchased


27.35 south.
Warm subtropical, with occasional frosts.

#27 hanapalms

hanapalms

    Rank: TRUNKING

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 578 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hana, Maui

Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:57 PM

it's like a fluttering butterfy, drinking the nectar of a flower, dipping, dipping down, suckling the sweet mother's milk of nature before floating off into the sunset of painted beauty forevermore. That's a heal.


Oh, so poetic. I'd love to be a heel.
  • 0
William
Hana, Maui

Land of the low lying heavens, the misty Uakea crowning the majestic Kauwiki.
Visit my palms here

#28 BS Man about Palms

BS Man about Palms

    This TVR is trapped in my garage by PALMS!

  • IPS MEMBER
  • 16,352 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oceanside, CA.

Posted 11 April 2012 - 08:07 PM

Thanks Bill that actually explained why I lose so many little dypsis seedlings. Gee I didnt know you had an american accent :o
Peachy



Happy to help Peachy... yup, thats me a Yank down under... ? :)
  • 0
Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users