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Livistona muelleri


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#1 Alberto

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:26 PM

Some time ago Gileno gave me a seedling of Livistona muelleri.After that I also bought some seeds of this species from RPS but the plants obtained from this seedst look different.

FIRST 4 pics are from Gileno´s palm. More a grey/green collor.

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Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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#2 Alberto

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:17 PM

.

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Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#3 Alberto

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:17 PM

This is one of the Listona sp obtained by seeds. The collor is more light green, shorter leaflets on the fans and the leaflets also are a little curved.
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Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#4 Alberto

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:46 PM

Some time ago Gileno gave me a seedling of Livistona muelleri.After that I also bought some seeds of this species from RPS but the plants obtained from this seedst look different.

FIRST 4 pics are from Gileno´s palm. More a grey/green collor.


This little Livistona was defoliated last winter, but grew all this new leaves this season.
  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#5 Alberto

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:46 PM

Some time ago Gileno gave me a seedling of Livistona muelleri.After that I also bought some seeds of this species from RPS but the plants obtained from this seedst look different.

FIRST 4 pics are from Gileno´s palm. More a grey/green collor.


This little Livistona was defoliated last winter, but grew all this new leaves this season.
  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#6 Alberto

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:50 PM

Some time ago Gileno gave me a seedling of Livistona muelleri.After that I also bought some seeds of this species from RPS but the plants obtained from this seedst look different.

FIRST 4 pics are from Gileno´s palm. More a grey/green collor.


This little Livistona was defoliated last winter, but grew all this new leaves this season.
  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#7 Alberto

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:50 PM

Some time ago Gileno gave me a seedling of Livistona muelleri.After that I also bought some seeds of this species from RPS but the plants obtained from this seedst look different.

FIRST 4 pics are from Gileno´s palm. More a grey/green collor.


This little Livistona was defoliated last winter, but grew all this new leaves this season.
  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#8 Alberto

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:52 PM

Gileno´s L.muelleri looks like like this on this pics


http://thsgarden.wor...tal-camera-122/

http://davesgarden.c...image/328356/#b
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Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#9 tank

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:13 AM

Alberto,
The first palm looks like L. muelleri.
The second palm looks like what I have been calling L. nitida, mostly because of the spine direction and leaf form.
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Jason
Gainesville, Florida

#10 gyuseppe

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:17 AM

The second palm looks like what I have been calling L. nitida, mostly because of the spine direction and leaf form.

I have livistona nitida is totally different from that of alberto
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GIUSEPPE

#11 edbrown_III

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:30 AM

Alberto

Here's how it looks a few years into the future. Real pretty orange flowers . Mine burns and defoliates every year even mild winters but it is about 3 m tall.

Best regardss


Ed

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#12 Mike in Kurtistown

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:53 AM

Alberto,

Seedlings of muellerii and benthamii look somewhat alike, both having almost complete separation of leaflets down to the hastula. But muellerii leaflets are stiffer and grey-green, not glossy, while benthamii leaflets are lax and bend easily and are glossy emerald green. Petiole spines on the benthamii are pale and can also be bent easily.

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Mike Merritt
Big Island of Hawaii
Windward, rainy side

#13 tank

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:27 AM

Alberto,
What's the lowest temp these two palms have seen?
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Jason
Gainesville, Florida

#14 Alberto

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:35 AM

Alberto,
What's the lowest temp these two palms have seen?


The greener Livistona sp was planted out this last spring so it didn´t see negative temperatures.
The Livistona muelleri from Gileno saw near -5 ° C at grond level and was totally defoliated but recovered very fast.Maybe its adapted to lose the leaves due to fires in Australia (like Allagoptera campestris here)
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Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#15 Gileno Machado

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:17 AM

Hi Alberto,

I'll have to take a few pictures of mine here, both muellerii and benthamii to compare...
I guess Mike is correct, benthamii has softer leaves...
By the way, is that the red wine you are taking to our braai in South Africa? :winkie:
  • 0
Sirinhaém beach, 80 Km south of Recife - Brazil
Tropical oceanic climate, latitude 8° S
Temperature extremes: 25 to 31°C
2000 mm average rainfall, dry summers

#16 Jastin

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:23 AM

Great pictures, That's my kind of object for scale! Man, Drinkin straight from the bottle huh?
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Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

#17 Keith in SoJax

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:59 AM

I have a small L. benthamii in a pot. The floppy leaflets radiate 360 degrees from the center (I think this is known as "orbicular"). However, the leaflets are not all the same length so they make an oblique circle. I don't have mulleri. I put the potted benhamii inside during freezes so I can only speculate that it would defoliate if frosted or frozen. It seems like a slow grower but that might be because its potted. Planning to relocate to central Florida so I'll put it in the ground down there. FWIW, I have L. drudei that defoliates every year. Though it recovers in a flash, I've concluded its foliage is about as hardy as banana. :huh:
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Winter Haven, FL, about 1 hour drive (60 miles/100 km) from both Tampa and Orlando
Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun
Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.
Every 20 years or so it gets cold enough to kill arborescent Ficus benjamina to the ground.
We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates.

#18 Alberto

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:58 PM

Alberto,

Seedlings of muellerii and benthamii look somewhat alike, both having almost complete separation of leaflets down to the hastula. But muellerii leaflets are stiffer and grey-green, not glossy, while benthamii leaflets are lax and bend easily and are glossy emerald green. Petiole spines on the benthamii are pale and can also be bent easily.


Mike, your description fits exactly on my two Livistona species. The spines of the sedond Livistona bends and the leaflets also are more soft compared to L, muelleri. So I think its L. benthami....Thanks!

Nice L. muelleri you have there Ed. I hope mine will look like this some day. It definately has a " copernicia look " on it!



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Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#19 Alberto

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:05 PM

Hi Alberto,

I'll have to take a few pictures of mine here, both muellerii and benthamii to compare...
I guess Mike is correct, benthamii has softer leaves...
By the way, is that the red wine you are taking to our braai in South Africa? :winkie:




South Africa,Thailand here we gooooooooooooooooo!!!............. And the wine we will buy there!!!!!Posted ImagePosted Image

Ons gaan nou al 'n bietjie afrikaans praat:
Sal dit goed smaak, wyn met wild gebraai vleis. Ek dink van wel, hé Gileno?Posted Image

I´d like to see both your Livistona seedlings.....................
  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#20 Alberto

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:11 PM

Great pictures, That's my kind of object for scale! Man, Drinkin straight from the bottle huh?


Posted ImageNot straight from the bottle. It´s not so bad!!!.......Posted Image
  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#21 Alberto

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:11 PM

Great pictures, That's my kind of object for scale! Man, Drinkin straight from the bottle huh?


Posted ImageNot straight from the bottle. It´s not so bad!!!.......Posted Image
  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#22 Alberto

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:14 PM

I have a small L. benthamii in a pot. The floppy leaflets radiate 360 degrees from the center (I think this is known as "orbicular"). However, the leaflets are not all the same length so they make an oblique circle. I don't have mulleri. I put the potted benhamii inside during freezes so I can only speculate that it would defoliate if frosted or frozen. It seems like a slow grower but that might be because its potted. Planning to relocate to central Florida so I'll put it in the ground down there. FWIW, I have L. drudei that defoliates every year. Though it recovers in a flash, I've concluded its foliage is about as hardy as banana. :huh:


Thanks! This description also fit my little seedligs : "However, the leaflets are not all the same length so they make an oblique circle. " The leaflet arrangement also is like a "cone" form with different lenghts....



  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#23 Alberto

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:18 PM

I have a small L. benthamii in a pot. The floppy leaflets radiate 360 degrees from the center (I think this is known as "orbicular"). However, the leaflets are not all the same length so they make an oblique circle. I don't have mulleri. I put the potted benhamii inside during freezes so I can only speculate that it would defoliate if frosted or frozen. It seems like a slow grower but that might be because its potted. Planning to relocate to central Florida so I'll put it in the ground down there. FWIW, I have L. drudei that defoliates every year. Though it recovers in a flash, I've concluded its foliage is about as hardy as banana. :huh:


Thanks! This description also fit my little seedligs : "However, the leaflets are not all the same length so they make an oblique circle. " The leaflet arrangement also is like a "cone" form with different lenghts....
Keith, i read your topic about your L, benthami and also Mikes reply:

Posted 11 September 2009 - 03:43 PM

I grew them outside in the ground for many years in the Orlando area. They are one of the more cold-hardy Australian Livs like rigida and muelleri, but in one bad winter (2000-01) some of the leaflets fried while the petioles and hastula remained green. I imagine you could lose them in an unseasonably cold winter in Jax.

  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#24 Alberto

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:18 PM

I have a small L. benthamii in a pot. The floppy leaflets radiate 360 degrees from the center (I think this is known as "orbicular"). However, the leaflets are not all the same length so they make an oblique circle. I don't have mulleri. I put the potted benhamii inside during freezes so I can only speculate that it would defoliate if frosted or frozen. It seems like a slow grower but that might be because its potted. Planning to relocate to central Florida so I'll put it in the ground down there. FWIW, I have L. drudei that defoliates every year. Though it recovers in a flash, I've concluded its foliage is about as hardy as banana. :huh:


Thanks! This description also fit my little seedligs : "However, the leaflets are not all the same length so they make an oblique circle. " The leaflet arrangement also is like a "cone" form with different lenghts....
Keith, i read your topic about your L, benthami and also Mikes reply:

Posted 11 September 2009 - 03:43 PM

I grew them outside in the ground for many years in the Orlando area. They are one of the more cold-hardy Australian Livs like rigida and muelleri, but in one bad winter (2000-01) some of the leaflets fried while the petioles and hastula remained green. I imagine you could lose them in an unseasonably cold winter in Jax.

  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#25 Alberto

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:23 PM

I´d like to see both your Livistona seedlings.....................


  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#26 Alberto

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:23 PM

I´d like to see both your Livistona seedlings.....................


  • 0
Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.
Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

#27 Gileno Machado

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:55 PM


Hi Alberto,

I'll have to take a few pictures of mine here, both muellerii and benthamii to compare...
I guess Mike is correct, benthamii has softer leaves...
By the way, is that the red wine you are taking to our braai in South Africa? :winkie:




South Africa,Thailand here we gooooooooooooooooo!!!............. And the wine we will buy there!!!!!Posted ImagePosted Image

Ons gaan nou al 'n bietjie afrikaans praat:
Sal dit goed smaak, wyn met wild gebraai vleis. Ek dink van wel, hé Gileno?Posted Image

I´d like to see both your Livistona seedlings.....................


Ôxente, help me Dennis !!!

I know what it means...Not many Livistonas in South Africa, hmm? but reading your message I guess the red wine is all gone by now...sniff :)
  • 0
Sirinhaém beach, 80 Km south of Recife - Brazil
Tropical oceanic climate, latitude 8° S
Temperature extremes: 25 to 31°C
2000 mm average rainfall, dry summers




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