28 replies to this topic

[GA Palm Guy]

I just purchased this palm from Home Depot that was labeled as a Phoenix Roebelenii. At first glance sure it looks like a roebelenii, but at a closer look the thorns have a more orange color to them and are really sharp. Very close to a cross with Phoenix Theophrasti if you ask me. What do you think?


Pic from above


Pic close up of trunk

[gyuseppe]

not hybrid, is a phoenix roebelenii

[Palmlover]

Looks like a Phoenix Roebelenii. I have a few in my garden and it looks similar to yours with orange as more sun it is exposed too.

[GA Palm Guy]

Interesting. I have always known these to be more slender at the base with thorns that were softer to the touch. This has more stiff thorns and seems to have a fatter trunk than a typical roebelenii. I buy these palms all the time to use as accents in the yard but I have never seen one like this.

Keep the opinions coming.

[Mike in Nelson]

I have four roebelenii in my garden that are apparently hybrids. They look similar to yours. Phoenix are notorious for hybidizing.

[Phoenikakias]

IMO a hybrid! You lucky guy!! (It happens to love such hybrids). Such stout, pricky, radiating, intensely yellow acanthophylls I have once encountered on a palm that is supposed to be Phoenix loureiroi. Search please relevant topic opened by me during last months. I have posted there pictures of these thorns. They look identical!
http://www.palmtalk....=1

Edited by Phoenikakias, 05 April 2012 - 01:20 AM.

[TheMadScientist]

GA Palm Guy, I believe you should pat yourself on the back based on your intuition and posting #1. I removed a 27 yr. old rose garden to do a makeover and chose these 2 as part of the 5 going into the garden. Based on my hot temps., full sun, perhaps 28-29 degree F rare cold temps. and low humidity, these would fit my location about 45 miles north of L.A. and 45 miles inland from the ocean at Ventura off I-5. The Pygmy Date (Phoenix Roebelenii) fonds are a lot more flexibile in the wind and a little more plentiful compared to the Cretan Date (Phoenix Theophrasti). Both of mine shown have the thornes near the trunk and the colors you have discribed. The Cretan Date has a feel on the fonds closer to a Sago Palm than the Pygmy Date. These are similar in size. I am not discounting the hybrid possibility, but just supporting your original claim with my photos. Scott

Cretan Date (Phoenix Theophrasti)


Pygmy Date (Phoenix Roebelenii)

[Phoenikakias]

BTW speaking of roebelenii hybrids, can anyone guess what are those plants are ? (all of the same crossing)

Giuseppe do not betray out tiny secret prematurily please!

[gyuseppe]

Konstantinos not worry, I will not reveal what they are your roebelenni hybrid.
out of curiosity, all these hybrids have sucker ?

in this: http://www.palmtalk....showtopic=19712
There are some photos of hybrid phoenix roebelenii x dactylifera , that are in the Naples Botanical Garden

[pindo]

Hello to all

I am convinced that it is very difficult to find Phoenix sp "pure" in culture.
I think only in habitats are to be found
In our nurseries and gardens this genus hybridize very easily and that hybridization is multiplied over time to cover many of the characters of the original species

Best

[Phoenikakias]

Konstantinos not worry, I will not reveal what they are your roebelenni hybrid.
out of curiosity, all these hybrids have sucker ?

in this: http://www.palmtalk....showtopic=19712
There are some photos of hybrid phoenix roebelenii x dactylifera , that are in the Naples Botanical Garden

Giuseppe,
I have donated many seedlings and very young plants of the same crossing and I know nothing about them, but from those plants I have kept (7 in total) only one has suckered.

[Mark Heath]

BTW speaking of roebelenii hybrids, can anyone guess what are those plants are ? (all of the same crossing)

Giuseppe do not betray out tiny secret prematurily please!

I will take a guess. P.Roebelenii X P.Reclinata. I love Pheonix pure and hybrids!

[gyuseppe]

[/quote]
I will take a guess. P.Roebelenii X P.Reclinata. I love Pheonix pure and hybrids!
[/quote]


hello Mark !
no are not roebelenii x reclinata, but I can not reveal what they are

[gyuseppe]

phoenix roebelenii x reclinata:
photo n.1- phoenix roebelenii
photo n.2- hybrid phoenix roebelenii x reclinata(I have hybridized)
photo n.3- in this photo there are,3 hybrid phoenix roebelenii x reclinata and 1 phoenix roebelenii,see the difference

[Phoenikakias]

Giuseppe,
thank you for the pics. They are very educative; pure roebelenii has narrower more linear strap leaves, while crossing with reclinata has markedly wider more lanceolate same leaves!

[virtualpalm]

Interesting. I have always known these to be more slender at the base with thorns that were softer to the touch. This has more stiff thorns and seems to have a fatter trunk than a typical roebelenii. I buy these palms all the time to use as accents in the yard but I have never seen one like this.

Keep the opinions coming.

I agree that this is a hybrid, for the reasons stated. I don't know much about P. theophrasti, though, so cannot comment on that one. Here in south Florida, we see lots of P. roebelenii hybrids, the nicest of which are with P. reclintata.

Jody

[BS Man about Palms]

I should post my hybrid someday..

Actually have 2. Both are half reclinata... then roebellini and one with a rupicola

[gyuseppe]

I should post my hybrid someday..

Actually have 2. Both are half reclinata... then roebellini and one with a rupicola

your phoenix rupicola is hybridized with? with roebelenii?

[Phoenikakias]

BTW speaking of roebelenii hybrids, can anyone guess what are those plants are ? (all of the same crossing)

Giuseppe do not betray out tiny secret prematurily please!

I will take a guess. P.Roebelenii X P.Reclinata. I love Pheonix pure and hybrids!

Nice try Mark, but you' ve missed target slightly! Now the moment of truth; they are phoenix roebeleni X phoenix dactylifera (f1).

[BS Man about Palms]

I should post my hybrid someday..

Actually have 2. Both are half reclinata... then roebellini and one with a rupicola

your phoenix rupicola is hybridized with? with roebelenii?

Yes.. Very nice... but was in a 5 gal pot and never planted... and now its about 7 feet across and 6 foot tall

[gyuseppe]

[/quote]

your phoenix rupicola is hybridized with? with roebelenii?
[/quote]


Yes.. Very nice... but was in a 5 gal pot and never planted... and now its about 7 feet across and 6 foot tall
[/quote]


Bill this produces seeds?

[BS Man about Palms]

it has been , yes. not checked to see if viable though.

[GA Palm Guy]

More pictures of the hybrid in question.

Close up of double trunk. Still with an orange color to them but now also has a blue color in the rest of the palm.


I am starting to think that this may have some P. Sylvestris in it as well.


The label says they were grown by Sun Nursery so I'm thinking about calling them to find out what the cross is.

Question for you guys. A typical roebelenii fronds will turn brown at temps below 30. Is the hardiness of the hybrids improved any?

[Phoenikakias]

More pictures of the hybrid in question.

Close up of double trunk. Still with an orange color to them but now also has a blue color in the rest of the palm.


I am starting to think that this may have some P. Sylvestris in it as well.


The label says they were grown by Sun Nursery so I'm thinking about calling them to find out what the cross is.

Question for you guys. A typical roebelenii fronds will turn brown at temps below 30. Is the hardiness of the hybrids improved any?

Out of the 7 above pictured hybrids I outplanted 5 of them last autumn. During past winter with constantly low temps, they fared much better than their 'mother'. So my brief experience answers yes to your question. But I tend to revise my initial opinion and incline to say that your plants are not hybrids.

[gyuseppe]

More pictures of the hybrid in question.

sorry your phoenix roebelenii not hybrids,They are like those that sell in nurseries

[Phoenikakias]

More pictures of the hybrid in question.

sorry your phoenix roebelenii not hybrids,They are like those that sell in nurseries

I feel like I have to agree with Giuseppe...

[GA Palm Guy]

Ok, this is my last shot at this. Here is a pic of what I know as a typical roebelenii palm on the left next to the hybrid in question on the right.



To me there is no way these can be the same palms.

[mlovecan]

Ok, this is my last shot at this. Here is a pic of what I know as a typical roebelenii palm on the left next to the hybrid in question on the right.



To me there is no way these can be the same palms.

I had wondered about this years ago - but somebody cleared it up here:

http://www.palmtalk....showtopic=22054

In Europe, both palms that are sold under the name Phoenix roebelenii - both pure, similar in size, but both quite different. The true roebelenii is the one on the left. The palm on the right is actually Phoenix loureirii var. "Manipur". Looks like both are being sold as Phoenix roeb. in the US now also.

There is also a Phoenix loureirii var. "Loureirii". This is a much bigger palm.

Regards

Maurice

[Phoenikakias]

GA Palm guy and Maurice here is my Phoenix roebeleni growing in full sun. It also produces fruits that are typical for a roebeleni

Edited by Phoenikakias, 01 May 2012 - 02:58 PM.