Butia x Jubaea at walmart in zone 7b??

[palmtreeguy]

There were two Butia palms, one was all green and the other had purple leaf bases. I almost left it there knowing Butia palm would be largely problematic here unprotected with death a high chance, but the chance of it being a hardier hybrid and it was on sale for only $10, I thought what the heck and I went back and bought the purple base one.

If it really is a BxJ F1 or F2 I'll be really excited, but a regular Jelly Palm would still be ok since I like the look of them so much and it was a great price at just $10.

Everything is looking like a BxJ to me, but I'm inexperienced in ID'ing Butia, especially the hybrid ones.

What do you all think?. There are no spines that I can tell just that fiber stuff at the leaf bases.

The palm from the soil up is about 2.5 feet tall, and the trunk is about 4 inches wide. The palm is in a 2 gallon container grown by Costa farms of Florida.

Full palm:

Trunk/leaf petioles:

The bottom half of the palm had fronds that twisted to the right (I've read the hybrids can have this also):

Petioles have no thorns, just that fiber stuff at the petiole base:

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Petiole:

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Pictures taken today in the sun:

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Picture link

[MattyB]

It's always hard to tell hybrids, but keep an eye out for the tell take hooks on the leaflets tips for jubaea.

[richnorm]

More likely Butia x Syagrus? Very green! Nice score whatever it is.

[Patrick]

Sorry to be the buzz kill, but I say it's a very nice Butia. I would like one like that in my yard, if it's any consolation.....

[Funkthulhu]

Is Costa Farms a big player? Seems all the palms and tropicals at my local Home Depot garden center have their label or "Grown at Costa Farms" on the pot.

[palmtreeguy]

Thanks everybody, I don't think it's a Mule palm because mine it's too squat looking, compare it to this link:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=15641

You can see the highly upright fronds on the Mule palm.

I read a old message that Nigel posted last year about a mystery palm that looked almost the same as mine and from the same company. Nigel posted: "judging from complete absence of spines on the petioles you scored a f1 BxJ"

Mine has no spines so that's why I was very curious of a hybrid.

If the seeds are from CA, then it could be a F1 BxJ, and if it came from FL it may have came from a BxJ parent. That's what I'm guessing since it's looks odd with no spines unlike a normal Jelly Palm should have the spines on the petioles.

Can a BxJ self pollinate, or does it need a Butia odorata (capitata) etc?

Edited March 18, 2012 by palmtreeguy

[amazon exotics]

Is Costa Farms a big player? Seems all the palms and tropicals at my local Home Depot garden center have their label or "Grown at Costa Farms" on the pot.

yes their a 700 pound gorilla

[Nigel]

It looks a bit like Butia eriosptha , but I wouldnt discount a hybrid. Maybe still too young to show the spines , if it remains spineless it can only be a hybrid.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Coming from a grower in Florida, it's doubtful there would be any Jubaea DNA present but that doesn't rule out some other type of hybrid.

[palmtreeguy]

It looks a bit like Butia eriosptha, but I wouldnt discount a hybrid. Maybe still too young to show the spines , if it remains spineless it can only be a hybrid.

Thanks Nigel, it was sold as a Butia capitata (odorata), but it looked very odd for that, that's why I bought it. It would be cool if it was Butia eriospatha. Butia eriospatha does have spines I think, right? And if it's still spineless when older does that mean a definite Butia x Jubaea type hybrid in your option?

I think I'm going to plant it out soon by a SE facing wall and protect the trunk and spear area during the winters if it gets below about 15°F (-9.4°C).

Coming from a grower in Florida, it's doubtful there would be any Jubaea DNA present but that doesn't rule out some other type of hybrid.

If it does turn out to be a hybrid I think it might could easily be a BxJ F2. Because I know there are some older BxJ palms growing in Florida, many might not know but there are.

Edited March 18, 2012 by palmtreeguy

[Patrick]

Are you sure that fuzz at the base of the petiole isn't a little prickly? They call Butias "spiny" but it can be kind of deceptive...

[palmtreeguy]

Are you sure that fuzz at the base of the petiole isn't a little prickly? They call Butias "spiny" but it can be kind of deceptive...

This is what a normal Butia odorata (capitata) looks like with the obvious sharp thorns or spines all along the petiole:

http://www.horticulture.lsu.edu/plantmaterials/species/butia_capitata/BUTcap32spinesA.jpg

Mine is a tad rough at the very base because the fibers quickly taper to bumps as you go up from the trunk, but there are no sharp thorns at all that would cut you if you rub your hand down the petiole. If one was to call any of the few bumps a thorn, I would call it underdeveloped blunt thorns or deformed blunt thorns (again only a few).

My palm with no sharp thorns, just fiber that very quickly tapers to "fiber bumps":

Edited March 19, 2012 by palmtreeguy

[Brad Mondel]

It appears to be a butia odorata (formerly butia capitata).

We have tons of these here; on every corner. Very beautiful and a very variable species.

Some have twisted fronds, some more arching and some more upright. etc

[Patrick]

Ah, gotchya!

I gotta go look at my mule now!

Nice palm even still.....

[_Keith]

Coming from a grower in Florida, it's doubtful there would be any Jubaea DNA present but that doesn't rule out some other type of hybrid.

Jim, that may be more by where the seed source is, than where the grow out takes place.

[DoomsDave]

Booteee-ah!

But nice!

In Zone 7, go whiddit!

[Phoenikakias]

BUMP! Yet I have a very similar plant, which originates from seed gathered under a Syagrus romanzoffiana by a knowledgable friend of mine (he can tell apart Butia from Arecastrum seeds). As far my own knowledge reaches, a pure Butia odorata produces always prior to entirely divided leaves at least one windowed leaf. In my case, since I grow this plant from seedling with the eophyll stil in spear form, I am sure that it never produced a single windowed leaf, instead it went over quite rapidly after second strap leaf to divided ones unlike also an Arecastrum; all these are facts recorded in stills. Moreover while first leaves were all upright, all other leaves after a complete defoliation begun growing strongly arching, kind of ... ovidian metamorphosis! 

[Mandrew968]

Is Costa Farms a big player? Seems all the palms and tropicals at my local Home Depot garden center have their label or "Grown at Costa Farms" on the pot.

Huge player--own at least half of Homestead, Florida...

[mcrawford]

Hard to tell based on the size, but I got a BxJ hybrid ealy last spring from Fallbrook Ca.

It has done great here, where no one has been able to keep a pure Jubea alive more

than a yr or two.  Here is a recent photo for comparison, albeit as a 36" boxed plant.

I am not certain if this is a BxJ or JxB, but it is completely different from my Butias

and from my former short-lived Jubeas.

 

 

[mcrawford]

Sabal v. lisa in the left background

[Josh-O]

can you post pic's of your Sp. Lisa Mutant?

[mcrawford]

Here is the Sabal v. Lisa.  It has been in place about 7-8 yrs.  The fronds stress a little in the summer heat, but look good the other 9 mos/yr.

I can't help but wonder how it went over at home when they guy who described this mutant named it after his wife!

 

 

Monte

[DoomsDave]

Sorry to be the buzz kill, but I say it's a very nice Butia. I would like one like that in my yard, if it's any consolation.....

I must agree