Brahea decumbens

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18F in north Florida w/ heavy frost.

Event was unusual as it was preceded by an extended warm period of over two weeks with several days reaching highs into the 80s(F).

Plant showed no damage. Plant is small, not showing its blue color yet and is located in a well drained raised bed.

Interestingly, a few Trachycarpus wagnerianus plants located nearby lost their spears (all have recovered) during this event.

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Bought 15 gallon from slopalms this Spring, this specimen was still in green phase and had minor spotting on leaves, Perry tells me it got exposed to 27F in Grover Beach, no overhead protection, probably 26F in that part of Perrys garden. So this is definitely not a zone 8b palm as indicated on PASCOA website. May become hardier in the blue-gray stage.

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Bought 15 gallon from slopalms this Spring, this specimen was still in green phase and had minor spotting on leaves, Perry tells me it got exposed to 27F in Grover Beach, no overhead protection, probably 26F in that part of Perrys garden. So this is definitely not a zone 8b palm as indicated on PASCOA website. May become hardier in the blue-gray stage.

Axel,

the description of minor spotting on the leaves sounds like a fungus. Braheas are prone to this in a wet cool season. And perhaps the ones closest to the ground may be most susceptible with dew being most consistent there.

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Bought 15 gallon from slopalms this Spring, this specimen was still in green phase and had minor spotting on leaves, Perry tells me it got exposed to 27F in Grover Beach, no overhead protection, probably 26F in that part of Perrys garden. So this is definitely not a zone 8b palm as indicated on PASCOA website. May become hardier in the blue-gray stage.

Maybe you don't have a decumbens :sick: .

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Bought 15 gallon from slopalms this Spring, this specimen was still in green phase and had minor spotting on leaves, Perry tells me it got exposed to 27F in Grover Beach, no overhead protection, probably 26F in that part of Perrys garden. So this is definitely not a zone 8b palm as indicated on PASCOA website. May become hardier in the blue-gray stage.

Maybe you don't have a decumbens :sick: .

It's decumbens, got two of them, one is from another source, they both cross check ID wise. It's a more tender brahea, at least until it gets mature waxy leaves. In habitat it's a ground creeper and thus tends to get some canopy from surrounding vegetation and rocks. Some suggest to grow it in filtered light.

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Bought 15 gallon from slopalms this Spring, this specimen was still in green phase and had minor spotting on leaves, Perry tells me it got exposed to 27F in Grover Beach, no overhead protection, probably 26F in that part of Perrys garden. So this is definitely not a zone 8b palm as indicated on PASCOA website. May become hardier in the blue-gray stage.

Maybe you don't have a decumbens :sick: .

It's decumbens, got two of them, one is from another source, they both cross check ID wise. It's a more tender brahea, at least until it gets mature waxy leaves. In habitat it's a ground creeper and thus tends to get some canopy from surrounding vegetation and rocks. Some suggest to grow it in filtered light.

Funny,

I've had a very different experience with mine than you have with yours.

In fact, I would say most of the reports I've seen contradict your

findings. Also, you describe the damage at 27F as minor spotting on the

leaves. I can get minor spotting on the leaves of any palm at any time

during the year! I would refrain from making sweeping conclusions

based on limited experience.

These plants will

handle upper 20sF, even when young. Really have a hard time with your

description that B. decumbens is "a more tender brahea" even as a young

plant.

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Bought 15 gallon from slopalms this Spring, this specimen was still in green phase and had minor spotting on leaves, Perry tells me it got exposed to 27F in Grover Beach, no overhead protection, probably 26F in that part of Perrys garden. So this is definitely not a zone 8b palm as indicated on PASCOA website. May become hardier in the blue-gray stage.

Maybe you don't have a decumbens :sick: .

It's decumbens, got two of them, one is from another source, they both cross check ID wise. It's a more tender brahea, at least until it gets mature waxy leaves. In habitat it's a ground creeper and thus tends to get some canopy from surrounding vegetation and rocks. Some suggest to grow it in filtered light.

Funny,

I've had a very different experience with mine than you have with yours.

In fact, I would say most of the reports I've seen contradict your

findings. Also, you describe the damage at 27F as minor spotting on the

leaves. I can get minor spotting on the leaves of any palm at any time

during the year! I would refrain from making sweeping conclusions

based on limited experience.

These plants will

handle upper 20sF, even when young. Really have a hard time with your

description that B. decumbens is "a more tender brahea" even as a young

plant.

I am just reporting the observation - spotting that Perry said showed up right after these specimens got exposed to 27F out in the open. He was surprised as well. Keep in mind, these are still juvenile palms, and the heavy inversion layer conditions could have accounted for far colder conditions at 1 feet off the ground, not to mention exposed to the night sky, where radiational processes could easily have super-cooled the frond surfaces to the upper teens to low 20's. I would still call it "hardy", it's just spotting, which suggests it's one of the less hardy braheas, that's all, but even if turns out 9b juvenile, 9a mature, that's still pretty hardy.

I can verify the correlation between the spotting, which does look like cold stress, and the Jan freeze, that's all. This is just "one" observation, so it hardly makes it conclusive, nor does it verify causality, so I wouldn't sweat it. I used this observation to inform how I sited these specimens.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions and put decumbens in the 8b category, be safe and assume 9a for the time being until there is conclusive evidence these things can take 8b type of conditions out in the open. My bet is they can't. But I've lost plenty of bets in the past. :)

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Axel,

I'm just wondering how much "research" you've done on this plant. Many folks on this forum have reported this plant (young plants and relatively "old" plants) will take temps into the mid teens just fine. Your report is the first to argue that B. decumbens isn't that hardy. My personal experience is that it has taken multiple events into the upper teens undamaged. My plant is about 5 years old and has been in the ground for about 4 years. This is from the plant that sits out in my front yard and that has seen low 20Fs to upper teensF many times Just because folks aren't reporting on this thread doesn't mean that they haven't discussed its ability to take the cold. Do some searches on this forum. What do you consider "conclusive" evidence. You seem to be willing to make sweeping conclusions on very little experience, often ignoring the experience of others.

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Axel,

I'm just wondering how much "research" you've done on this plant. Many folks on this forum have reported this plant (young plants and relatively "old" plants) will take temps into the mid teens just fine. Your report is the first to argue that B. decumbens isn't that hardy. My personal experience is that it has taken multiple events into the upper teens undamaged. My plant is about 5 years old and has been in the ground for about 4 years. This is from the plant that sits out in my front yard and that has seen low 20Fs to upper teensF many times Just because folks aren't reporting on this thread doesn't mean that they haven't discussed its ability to take the cold. Do some searches on this forum. What do you consider "conclusive" evidence. You seem to be willing to make sweeping conclusions on very little experience, often ignoring the experience of others.

Tank, I say it's hardy to 9a, which means that my own conclusion is 20F, and I am not proclaiming this as "truth", it's what I believe, that's all. You say 18F, you are really going to argue to change my world view by 2 degrees Farhenheit? That's not even 1 degree centigrade. Any hardiness rating is nothing but a theory, it doesn't always work. Besides, real "hard" hardiness numbers aren't accurate anyway, the USDA zones are better, I usually round off to the nearest zone, which means 18F would still be 9a in my book.

We each are entitled to draw our own conclusions as we wish. All I did is to share one single data point, that's all. The plant that I am referencing to wasn't reading PalmTalk to make sure it's as hardy as everyone else says. For me, since it's the only one I got, I decided to accept the fact that this particular one isn't hardy to 18F. I just pass the data point along and you're free to do with as you please. If that data point doesn't agree with your world view, then just ignore it. Botany is a complex subject, there isn't always a black and white answer to everything. With each plant, "your mileage may vary".

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Axel,

Did these plants experience any damage while you have had them, as you describe your "zone" as 10a?

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Axel,

Did these plants experience any damage while you have had them, as you describe your "zone" as 10a?

No, I was reporting what Perry from SLO Palms related to me. He said it got the black dots when it was exposed to 27F. I really wouldn't worry about it, if yours have survived 18F, then this is probably a data point that can just be thrown out. I bet they get tough when they are bigger and have turned silver.

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Best info I have been able to find is that B. Decumbens are zone 8b palms, good to 15 degrees F. Sounds like tanks palm surviving with no damage to the upper teens is consistent with that. However, cold wet is different than just cold hardiness. In the norcal wet winter, it probably will be less hardy due to wetness more than cold.

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I also have one (?5 gal or less) from Perry Glenn which I planted more or less in the open in mid 2012.

It took quite a hit last winter in the low to mid twenties here and lost most of its foliage but it is growing again.

I predict it will settle in if it gets through another winter.

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I also have one (?5 gal or less) from Perry Glenn which I planted more or less in the open in mid 2012.

It took quite a hit last winter in the low to mid twenties here and lost most of its foliage but it is growing again.

I predict it will settle in if it gets through another winter.

Well, there you have it, another data point on Perry's decumbens. Not sure why there is such a discrepancy, Tom is surely onto something here, but I doubt North Florida freezes are always dry, and last Winter's Norcal freeze was definitely dry. We rarely get wet freezes even in Norcal because it usually freezes as a result of very low dew points. The other possibility is that Perry has something that isn't actually decumbens. Third possibility is that decumbens greatly increases in hardiness once it morphs from the green stage to the waxy stage. Fourth possibility is that Tanks' temperature measurements are not accurate. Well, we can postulate until we're blue in the face. Best to keep all the data points coming in so that a very comprehensive picture can emerge on how hardy these palms actually are.

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Folks have been growing what has been sold as B. decumbens in Atlanta, San Antonio, Dallas and even colder spots with success for several years. These areas see mid to low 20Fs several times a year and regularly have temps into the upper to mid teens(F). I really think that you may have a misidentified plant, especially since it came from the same source, basically giving it a single data point. Or else they are the same species but from vastly different origins. I would still lean towards the former.

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I suspect that there is at least one batch of Brahea decumbens going around that is not actually B. decumbens. I'm reserving final judgement for another couple of years, hoping that my 3 green ones turn blue, but it doesn't look promising. I have experience growing real B. decumbens from 1 leaf seedlings and these other plants just don't look right to me. I hope I'm wrong.

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I purchased plants sold as B decumbens a few years ago, that just didn't look right. They grew in a slightly decumbent manner but the leaves didn't look right and they spotted up badly every winter. We looked at them here on palmtalk and some agreed that they just weren't true to name. I pulled them out some time ago.

This small plant however, has been crawling along the ground in my front yard for 10 years. I honestly couldn't tell you if it is truly decumbens but I can say that it is among the slowest palms in my yard. It is fully exposed in my North facing front yard and handles extremes in temperature and moisture without ever getting a spot on it. Just this year I've noticed some real blue appearing as just a dusting of it on the back and front of this years leaf.

If this is decumbens it is completely tolerant of mid 20's F wet or dry.

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I planted out a clump of 20 plants and a larger older single specimen last summer and this winter killed them both @ 13F. The remainder of my plant will stay in pots until they get larger before I plant them out again.  

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Hi Joseph ! Have you any for sale for spring ?

 

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