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Early January Freeze.


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#41 Palmə hl′ik

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:12 AM

my mangoes still got foliage and flowers! :drool:
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Brandon, FL
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#42 gsytch

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 07:39 AM

33.6F this morning here in NPR with some frost but far from anything serious. The temps dropped then held steady at 33/34 then rose rapidly after sunrise. Already 61F at 1030a giving a rise of 27 degrees in 4 hours. Very little damage other than the expected sensitive stuff. No palms damaged, but the marginal ones went the past two years anyway :-)).
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Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

#43 JungleGina

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:10 AM

We flatlined at 34 degrees for a couple hours this am. After yesterday, the banana leaves were fried and my tomato plant dropped all its fruit. I think this is the last winter for my large bottle palm--has been looking worse each year and now down to one leaf...despite the fact that I put fire only a few feet away. No frost in my yard but I did spot some further inland on open lawns.
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#44 Dakotafl

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:02 AM

After this short freeze, i can see just how mild it was compared to the last two years.

The coconut palms that survived last winters are looking beautiful again :)
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Malabar, Florida. Zone 10a, East Central Florida.


#45 Mark Heath

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 01:06 PM

27degrees both mornings at 6:00am. I am in a low spot where all the cold funnels to. I have 3 analog temp guages and one digital and they all were within one degree from one another. Holy smokes!!! :angry:
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#46 PalmatierMeg

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 01:17 PM

39.9 at 6 a.m. The palms that were indoors are now back out, except for lippsticks and dwarf Areca. The bellweather bananas & heliconias show no damage so far.
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#47 Walt

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:04 PM

Yesterday morning I recorded an open yard low (about 3-4 feet above ground) of 25 degrees with virtually no frost. This morning I also recorded a 25-27 degree low (two thermometers) with medium frost. In protected areas (mostly lightly wooded areas) I suspect it was just above 30 degrees because banana, papaya, alocasia, jak fruit, brugmansia, Ficus elastica and lyrata and microcarpa, Monstera, pothos, etc. weren't damaged.

Also, yesterday morning Archbold Biological Station (10 miles south of my location in south Highlands County) recorded 16 degrees. I don't know what ABS recorded this morning.
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#48 Palmə hl′ik

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:35 PM

We flatlined at 34 degrees for a couple hours this am. After yesterday, the banana leaves were fried and my tomato plant dropped all its fruit. I think this is the last winter for my large bottle palm--has been looking worse each year and now down to one leaf...despite the fact that I put fire only a few feet away. No frost in my yard but I did spot some further inland on open lawns.




You need a spin da bottle hybrid from Catherine down there... Mine held up like a champ these last two nights... Flawless.

~Ray.
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Brandon, FL
27.95N 82.28W (Elev. 62 ft)
Zone9 w/ canopy


#49 Trpico

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 06:35 PM

Yesterday morning I recorded an open yard low (about 3-4 feet above ground) of 25 degrees with virtually no frost. This morning I also recorded a 25-27 degree low (two thermometers) with medium frost. In protected areas (mostly lightly wooded areas) I suspect it was just above 30 degrees because banana, papaya, alocasia, jak fruit, brugmansia, Ficus elastica and lyrata and microcarpa, Monstera, pothos, etc. weren't damaged.

Also, yesterday morning Archbold Biological Station (10 miles south of my location in south Highlands County) recorded 16 degrees. I don't know what ABS recorded this morning.


No matter how different our minimum temperatures ended up being, I'm hearing the same story all over: damage only to tendermost plants out in the open but no damage under canopy. It's neat to see how my tallest brug abruptly gets damaged above the fence line, but not a blink below it. In an exposed allamanda, the exposed twigs got scorched but protected the inner ones which look totally intact.
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Frank

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humid/hot summers; dry/cool winters
with yearly freezes

#50 Palmə hl′ik

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:03 AM

That frost IS brutal; ain't it Frank... :rage:
I'm surprised at the BIG differences aswell... I've come to realize most palms are tolerant to the cold, it's the frost that does the damage.

~Ray.
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Brandon, FL
27.95N 82.28W (Elev. 62 ft)
Zone9 w/ canopy


#51 buccaneers37

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:27 AM

That frost IS brutal; ain't it Frank... :rage:
I'm surprised at the BIG differences aswell... I've come to realize most palms are tolerant to the cold, it's the frost that does the damage.

~Ray.


Very true. I have several palms that supposedly are 9B/10A that got none to minimal damage last year at 24/25deg. that are under fairly substantial oak canopy. I have no illusion that these would not have been toast if they were out in the open subject to frost. There was some minor burn here and there where frost managed to sneak through. I also have some 9B palms that got defoliated in the same conditions, which means these are frost AND cold sensitive. Coccothrinax GREAT palms, Dypsis not so much (for my yard, anyway)
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#52 gsytch

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:00 AM

Some tip burn showing on a large Fishtail that is about 25' high. It survived the past two winters with burn only on the outer leaves. It grows under a taller Queen. My large Triangle out front is fine. The past two winters it got scorched but came back well. It is about 30' tall. My Mango tree, which offers me beautiful shade, is fine as are the flowers. Fruit again this year? This monster grows under higher pine trees and is so tall my nephew loves climbing it. Areca under canopy fine. I planted a several 6" Spaths together this fall in a clump, under the pines. They are untouched. I'd expect toast. All of the other palms are fine. Only damage to anything is in open spaces. 70F today!!!!!!!
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Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

#53 Eric in Orlando

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:32 AM


Only 38F here this morning


That's amazing eric! Where is your thermometer located at?



Out in the open next to the main building. We get almost the exact temperatures as the NWS station at Orlando Executive Airport which is just about 1-2 miles away.

Where in Orlando are you at ??
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#54 JimStPete

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 08:33 AM

Wednesday 1/4/2012 morning's low was 37.7F in my yard with no frost. Thursday 1/5/2012 morning got down to 36.4F. No frost in my yard but 1 mile away on the way to work (further inland away from the gulf) there was frost on the cars in the parking lots. I'm waiting to see if my most tender palm (Montgomery Palm triple) shows any damage or yellowing in the next few days. Thankfully I'm not seeing any damage on anything else from these two cold nights.
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#55 Trpico

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:19 AM



Only 38F here this morning


That's amazing eric! Where is your thermometer located at?



Out in the open next to the main building. We get almost the exact temperatures as the NWS station at Orlando Executive Airport which is just about 1-2 miles away.

Where in Orlando are you at ??


I am near Rose Avenue, close to Lockhart. It's halfway between Downtown and Apopka.
My thermometer sensor is tucked in between the branches of a medium size bush (Viburnum), about 10 feet from my west wall. The bush is out in the open yard. That is the coldest part of my yard and there is nothing protecting all the way to the neighbor across the street, a good 60 ft away to the west (I'm in a corner and most of my yard is west of the house). During last year's freezes I recorded 24F. I'm sure there is a 5 degree drop from any canopy to that spot. I stored about half of my collection in the pool deck which probably got down to 33F or above and stayed undamaged.

About frost, I still equate it to cosmetic damage to the leaves. A dry freeze can kill a palm to the bud. Frost will burn leaf surfaces and only make a palm look terrible, but can start a slow decline if the palm relies heavily on green leaf surface. Those are my observations so far, but I'm still learning.
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Frank

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with yearly freezes

#56 Walt

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 01:38 PM


Yesterday morning I recorded an open yard low (about 3-4 feet above ground) of 25 degrees with virtually no frost. This morning I also recorded a 25-27 degree low (two thermometers) with medium frost. In protected areas (mostly lightly wooded areas) I suspect it was just above 30 degrees because banana, papaya, alocasia, jak fruit, brugmansia, Ficus elastica and lyrata and microcarpa, Monstera, pothos, etc. weren't damaged.

Also, yesterday morning Archbold Biological Station (10 miles south of my location in south Highlands County) recorded 16 degrees. I don't know what ABS recorded this morning.


No matter how different our minimum temperatures ended up being, I'm hearing the same story all over: damage only to tendermost plants out in the open but no damage under canopy. It's neat to see how my tallest brug abruptly gets damaged above the fence line, but not a blink below it. In an exposed allamanda, the exposed twigs got scorched but protected the inner ones which look totally intact.


In the 14 years I've lived here, I can state that no two cold events are ever the same. 95% or more of my damaging cold events are radiational in nature. I haven't had an advective cooling event yet that did any substantial foliage damage. The only advective advent I can recall is late January of 2003, when I had a windy 29.5 degrees. My traveller's palm only had some dessication to its uppmost leave. All the rest were fine. Yet, 29.5 with frost will basically defoliate all of my traveller's palm's leaves.

Today I took a walk around inspection of my property (5.60 acres). Even in the coldest areas the foliage damage was limited to below 8 feet above the ground. That indicates air stratification. The bulk of foliage damage was below 4 feet above the ground, and the coldest air is always nearest the ground level.

Back in my wooded and canopied areas there's virtually no damage. I have low temperature/frost indicator plants planted about my property. Thermometers can be miscalibrated, inaccurate, and misplaced causing false readings, but plants don't lie. Even paypaya and bananas in my canopied areas weren't hurt. Yet, on the north side of my property (the coldest side that backs to state preserve property) I have 8 feet high Philodenron selloms melted to the ground. I believe the preserve area probably saw low 20s. All the wild muscadine grape vines on the preserve are fried, and this is now a fire hazard.

Many years ago when I was trying to learn and understand the atomospheric and ground physics of what was going on here during radiational freezes, I strategically placed hi-lo mercury and digital thermometers (remote sensors) here and there about my property. I moved the devices around each night under various radiational cooling conditions and recorded my readings. No one radiation cooling event is the same. Some events the air is highly stratified where every 1-2 feet in elevation corresponds to a 1 degree F temperature increase. One other nights, the cold air is far deeper and less stratified, to where 10-20 feet above the ground is almost as cold.

But what I did find was that under dense tree canopy I've recorded up to a seven degree higher temperature than the ambient air just outside of the canopy. But I estimate on average, in highly canopied areas, it's good for a 1/2 USDA cold hardiness zone.

Luckily, the past two coldest nights were relatively frost free (although the second night was frosty, but not heavy, heavy frost). Frost is the biggest factor in defoliation. I've seen my majesty palms (leaves) take 26-27 with no frost, yet see lots of defoliation on low 30s nights with heavy frost.

I'm hoping that if we do get any further freezes and/or frosts, they aren't as bad as what I had on this second cold night. If that proves to be the case, I will consider this a good winter for me.
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#57 TropicalDude

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 02:32 PM

my mangoes still got foliage and flowers! :drool:


Not to be a downer but Mangoes are deceiving. Leaves and flowers can look fine for a few days then eventually start turning reddish and after a few weeks, finally brown. Flowers hang on for a while and then drop. But if the damage is light Mangoes usually flower again later.
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#58 Eric in Orlando

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:35 AM

No flowers on our 3 mango trees yet but the lychee has started flowering.
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#59 gsytch

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:31 PM

The mango flowers are still plump and blooming. I have a Philo growing up the tree and that is completely undamaged, as is a Cattleya on a nearby palm. The Spath clump also undamaged. What a difference tree cover makes, even if it is mostly pines and palms. A chilly day here as temps dropped through the 50's all day, fell to 48F after dark and have risen to 51F right now. To be 75F by Monday and then a nice week again. Fingers keeping crossed as the cold air banked up in Alaska (record low of -34F in Nome)needs to go somewhere, doesn't it? Greg
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Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

#60 Takil-Explorer

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:34 PM

Well those folks able to grow Cattaleyas on a palm do not have the right to complain about winter. Where I live you can only keep them alive in a hothouse! That is if the heathing those not fail in a big freeze. Had that ones a long time ago. After a night with -17 C almost all plants where dead. Only Sarracenias had not damage.

Well winter is certainly not my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alexander
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#61 Takil-Explorer

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 07:51 PM

Still deepfreeze here. Coldest about -17C. For all those folks from Florida, this is serious winter...

A reqium for most exotics here!

Alexander
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