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Palms in Sonora


richtrav

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Love this photo Richard from your albums. Hope you don't mind me displaying it. It's a beauty.

post-51-1152251495_thumb.jpg

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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Richard:

Looks too [expletive] much like So-Cal for me.

Hug the Ole Lady, boink the low-rider .. .

dave

Yeah, the palms ROCK!

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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excellent photos - the fire cycle clearly evidenced

I get by with a little help from my fronds

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Nice pics Richard!  It was good to meet you and Zac at the Huntington last week...

Jack Sayers

East Los Angeles

growing cold tolerant palms halfway between the equator and the arctic circle...

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Rich,

Brings back memories from my trip 2 years ago.  Me and my buddy are going again in October.  We're going back to a canyon we found on the coast that has the blueist form of S. Uresana with really droopy leaves and also B. nitida.  

S. Uresana habitat A-32.jpg

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Nice photos from all.  Thanks.

Tampa, Interbay Peninsula, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10A

Bokeelia, Pine Island, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10B

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Great photos !!

Even the photo before here, the S. uresana, i like the dropping leaves, that effect is very nice.

Southwest

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Seeing them in habitat..great. What would the winter temps be for them?...Isn't that area famous for pools of vernal and desert springs? Mexican cichlids and pup fish habitat.

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The are we found them in is tropical, zone 11.  I don't know what minimum temps in the winter are.  S. uresana is fairly cold tolerant though.

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The cacti and succulents would make a great post for the "non palm" part of the board..not since Paul posted some Agave and Nolinas have we seen those beautys. What are the big cacti in the distance?

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JD

Yes I remember that trip, you wrote an article for our journal, that's one thing that made want to get down there so badly. From what I saw, the bluest Sabal uresana are found nowhere near the coast, it's almost as if the coastal form is a different species than the inland form, though the variation seen in the coastal form is remarkably unsabalike. There certainly may be some coastal ones that are bluer than the type seen in the immediate vicinity of San Carlos. Some of the ones near San Carlos almost superficially look closer to rosei. But the inland form, WOW. Extremely ornamental, almost more of a whitish grey than blue.

There are lots of the Brahea elegans near the coast that are nice and blue, though others are greener. We did not see any Brahea nitida close to the coast, it seems to be an inland species that favors protected canyons with large boulders in more humid country - mesic enough to support oaks - and can easily be distinguised by the long inflorescences that do not branch until they have passed the crown. If you have seen the long inflorescence on B. moorei it much resembles that species.

Stan, there are sooo many cacti in the area, I'll have to look at the shots again. The most impressive are the Pachycereus near the coast, they are massive and beautiful

Richard

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Richard, that is a fabulous picture that Wal posted that you took! Palmate palms never looked so great!

Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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Rich,

Yeah, I never got a copy of it.  I wrote a separate article for our Socal palm journal that should be out soon.

The picture doesn't do the palm justice.  They are so blue, they're almost glowing, I'm not kidding.  I have a seedling that I grew from that tree and it is also very very blue.

We did find a grove of B. nitida about 2 miles inland.  Yes, very long inflorescence and glaucous green leaves.

I think I told you that I also found an unknown Brahea that I am still trying to identify.  So far, the top 5 world experts on palms cannot identify it.  It looks to be in the armata complex, but has very long black petioles and the inflorescences don't extend past the leaf crown and don't droop as much as armata.  Here's a pic.  Any ideas?

Brahea sp Guaymas2.jpg

brahea petioles.jpg

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JD

If you send me a PM I can send you a pdf copy of the article.

That's an interesting observation about Sabal uresana, I have a form bought in AZ which I was told had come from the coast and has an unusual bluish cast to it, not too unlike a blue Saba yapa I have (do you have any pics of the babies?). They are variable in that region for sure. The eastern populations of S. uresana were more uniform and had an almost whitish look to them.

That Brahea is interesting, the elegans in the area is really really variable, from apparent dwarfs to 50 footers, green to blue, weeping to stiff. My guess is that it is just a variant of elegans merely because it's so variable and the only Brahea known from the Sonoran coast where it is not uncommon, but that is simply a guess - I just pulled it out of my .... head .  Without a specimen it's hard to make any sort of detemination. Was it just a single plant or a colony of them? If it stands out as a looker it would be a good plant for cultivation. Now a population of Brahea nitida a few miles from the coast would be quite notable. Did it look different from the other braheas in the area?

Richard

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Rich,

I'll PM you my email address now.

It can't be B. elegans.  Here is the crown and seeds of B. elegans:

b. elegans.jpg

Here's the crown of mine:

brahea petioles.jpg

I know its a crappy pic, but notice the petiole bases on mine are jet black.  Also, the fruit is quite large, whereas my Brahea's fruit was smaller- about the size of armata but with strange brown patches on it.  I'll take a pic of the seeds.  Also, B. elegans has a crown of 3-6 feet wide and grows to 10 feet tall.  My Brahea had a crown at least 15-20 feet wide and was 20-25 feet tall overall.  It also had heavily armed petioles.

It was a lonely palm in a gully with B. nitida groves all around it.  It looked like a S. uresana when I approached it and I only really found out it was a brahea by looking at the seed!

JD

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Photos by John and Faith Bishock.

Two different Braheas from the mountains above Puerta Vallarta. One photo with Faith under a Brahea sarukhanii and the rest an unknown rheophyte growing in the mountains of Nayarit. This area is rich in palms and thanks to our wonderful guide we saw them all. ~John

post-48-1152714833_thumb.jpg

Jeff Wilson

SW Florida - 26.97 N 82 W

Port Charlotte, FL, United States

Zone 9b/10a

hot, humid subtropical climate - mild winters

approx. 50" rain annually during growing season

Summer came too early, springtime came too late...

went from freezing cold to bleached out summer days

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photo #2

post-48-1152714948_thumb.jpg

Jeff Wilson

SW Florida - 26.97 N 82 W

Port Charlotte, FL, United States

Zone 9b/10a

hot, humid subtropical climate - mild winters

approx. 50" rain annually during growing season

Summer came too early, springtime came too late...

went from freezing cold to bleached out summer days

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photo #3

post-48-1152715021_thumb.jpg

Jeff Wilson

SW Florida - 26.97 N 82 W

Port Charlotte, FL, United States

Zone 9b/10a

hot, humid subtropical climate - mild winters

approx. 50" rain annually during growing season

Summer came too early, springtime came too late...

went from freezing cold to bleached out summer days

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photo #4

post-48-1152715079_thumb.jpg

Jeff Wilson

SW Florida - 26.97 N 82 W

Port Charlotte, FL, United States

Zone 9b/10a

hot, humid subtropical climate - mild winters

approx. 50" rain annually during growing season

Summer came too early, springtime came too late...

went from freezing cold to bleached out summer days

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photo #5

post-48-1152715153_thumb.jpg

Jeff Wilson

SW Florida - 26.97 N 82 W

Port Charlotte, FL, United States

Zone 9b/10a

hot, humid subtropical climate - mild winters

approx. 50" rain annually during growing season

Summer came too early, springtime came too late...

went from freezing cold to bleached out summer days

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photo #6

post-48-1152715196_thumb.jpg

Jeff Wilson

SW Florida - 26.97 N 82 W

Port Charlotte, FL, United States

Zone 9b/10a

hot, humid subtropical climate - mild winters

approx. 50" rain annually during growing season

Summer came too early, springtime came too late...

went from freezing cold to bleached out summer days

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I post again the fotos of the coco i found with fruit in Puerto Peñasco Sonora, at top of Mar de Cortez 31 north. Only 100 kilometers/60 miles from Arizona USA. I put these before in the old palmtalk.

Not native, but intresting for they are very far north.

I think some body in Calexico California, Yuma Arizona or Mexicali, Baja California should try to grow cocos to see how they do in these area its same climate, only little more hot in summer and little more cold in the winter for theres no ocean.

post-285-1152752804_thumb.jpg

TEMP. JAN. 21/10 C (69/50 F), AUG. 29/20 C (84/68 F). COASTAL DESERT, MOST DAYS MILD OR WARM, SUNNY AND DRY. YEARLY PRECIPITATION: 210 MM (8.2 INCHES). ZONE 11 NO FREEZES CLOSE TO THE OCEAN.

5845d02ceb988_3-copia.jpg.447ccc2a7cc4c6

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same coco

post-285-1152752880_thumb.jpg

TEMP. JAN. 21/10 C (69/50 F), AUG. 29/20 C (84/68 F). COASTAL DESERT, MOST DAYS MILD OR WARM, SUNNY AND DRY. YEARLY PRECIPITATION: 210 MM (8.2 INCHES). ZONE 11 NO FREEZES CLOSE TO THE OCEAN.

5845d02ceb988_3-copia.jpg.447ccc2a7cc4c6

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fruit on the coco. yellow malayan i think

post-285-1152752970_thumb.jpg

TEMP. JAN. 21/10 C (69/50 F), AUG. 29/20 C (84/68 F). COASTAL DESERT, MOST DAYS MILD OR WARM, SUNNY AND DRY. YEARLY PRECIPITATION: 210 MM (8.2 INCHES). ZONE 11 NO FREEZES CLOSE TO THE OCEAN.

5845d02ceb988_3-copia.jpg.447ccc2a7cc4c6

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Another coco i find in Puerto Peñasco, no fruit i can see for the tree in front.

post-285-1152753119_thumb.jpg

TEMP. JAN. 21/10 C (69/50 F), AUG. 29/20 C (84/68 F). COASTAL DESERT, MOST DAYS MILD OR WARM, SUNNY AND DRY. YEARLY PRECIPITATION: 210 MM (8.2 INCHES). ZONE 11 NO FREEZES CLOSE TO THE OCEAN.

5845d02ceb988_3-copia.jpg.447ccc2a7cc4c6

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another coco i find by the malecón by the ocean. i take these fotos in january, the palms look ok.

post-285-1152753367_thumb.jpg

TEMP. JAN. 21/10 C (69/50 F), AUG. 29/20 C (84/68 F). COASTAL DESERT, MOST DAYS MILD OR WARM, SUNNY AND DRY. YEARLY PRECIPITATION: 210 MM (8.2 INCHES). ZONE 11 NO FREEZES CLOSE TO THE OCEAN.

5845d02ceb988_3-copia.jpg.447ccc2a7cc4c6

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map to show wheres Puerto Peñasco, Sonora México

post-285-1152753452_thumb.jpg

TEMP. JAN. 21/10 C (69/50 F), AUG. 29/20 C (84/68 F). COASTAL DESERT, MOST DAYS MILD OR WARM, SUNNY AND DRY. YEARLY PRECIPITATION: 210 MM (8.2 INCHES). ZONE 11 NO FREEZES CLOSE TO THE OCEAN.

5845d02ceb988_3-copia.jpg.447ccc2a7cc4c6

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Time for plant a S. uresana!

Richard, excelent pictures!!.- Those landscapes are also fantastic.- The tall Brahea at Nacapule is gorgeus.-

Gaston,Ar

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Yay. I have finally gotten back to a computer after a while. Seeing the palms in Sonora was a blast. It was neat to see them in habitat. The Inland uresanas were one of the most gorgeous palms I think I have ever seen in my life.

Jack- It was great to meet you as well. I wish I would have had a bit longer in SoCal, but that is the way things work. Rancho Soledad was very cool though.

Zac

Zac  

Living to get back to Mexico

International Palm Society member since 2007

http://community.webshots.com/user/zacspics - My Webshots Gallery

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