is this a rich mans hobby ?............

[BS Man about Palms]

On 1/13/2011, 6:36:57, BS Man about Palms said:

I am,

Christopher Walken,

see?

 

 

And I would like to buy,

 

an Island,

 

 

But no palm,

 

trees,

 

 

 

Understand?

 

 

Chris.

I thought this was a really great impression of a Christopher Walken speech... bUt I got no traction...   aahhh oh well  

[Turtlesteve]

I would vote "no" to the original question.

There does not seem to be any shortage of palms planted in lower income areas, and often they seem to be more appreciated there.

Steve

 

[Alberto]

1 hour ago, Phoenikakias said:

A very ambivalent statement, because the causality sequence is not clear......

???

[Phoenikakias]

16 minutes ago, Alberto said:

???

Alberto, I was referring to late Dick's statement. 

[Jimhardy]

Is and isn't.....if you live somewhere that palms grow, you can enjoy them everywhere.

[Hammer]

46 minutes ago, Jimhardy said:

Is and isn't.....if you live somewhere that palms grow, you can enjoy them everywhere.

Speaking of places they don't grow...would love to see a full Summer update thread on your place Jim.

[cm05]

Not unless you're into instant gratification and/or the rarest exotics. Seeds are cheap/free.

My most expensive palm, a 4 foot tall Rhapidophyllum hystrix, was $59. And that's more than twice the amount I spent on any other palm or plant.

[Phoenikakias]

3 hours ago, Jimhardy said:

Is and isn't.....if you live somewhere that palms grow, you can enjoy them everywhere.

What does grow  mean? Can palms in an arid climate with no table water really grow? Most of the meditteranean places with big concentration of palms are most probably naturally unsuitable for the cultivation of whatever palms. Supposingly that in those places arable and most fertile earth is used for traditional agricultural activities, what else regularly remain for other uses is the poorest land  And water in arid places does cost, to name only a single costly variable.

[sonoranfans]

of my 60 plus palms, only  6 cost more than $100, and probably 3 dozen cost $20 each or less.   I have an archrontohoenix alexandre triple that is pushing 20' overall, it cost $9, $3 each.  Hardscape is much more expensive, patios, pavers, walkways, raised beds.  My landscaping cost less than 5% of the cost of the house.  I know many people who spend more on lawns and patios or resurfacing a driveway.  Is a patio and hardscape walkway a "rich mans" landscape?  I would say that if you are older when bitten by the palm bug, you may have to go bigger to see a mature palm in some slower growing species.  

[rprimbs]

I suppose we tend to be "rich" -- in terms of property.  But we also probably tend to be the types who chose to live inland -- on a larger piece of property -- rather than on the coast in an apartment or condo.

Am I rich?  I work as a garbage man, drive a 2000 Ford Windstar van ... and own a house and piece of property worth over a half a million...  We are an odd bunch.

[Jimhardy]

14 hours ago, Hammer said:

Speaking of places they don't grow...would love to see a full Summer update thread on your place Jim.

Thanks!

 

I was going to quit and move somewhere else so a lot was let go...

but I decided to stay and have replanted with a much better selection!

 

I will do a post sometime this month-Thanks again.

[Missi]

On 7/2/2017, 5:30:10, kinzyjr said:

If you want a mature, reproducing grove of each palm that exists, yes. 

By the same token, if you live in a relatively affordable area, and grow from seed, you can save quite a bit.  For example, you could buy a box of medjool dates, some solo cups, and some potting soil from your local stores and have the beginnings of some wonderful blue/green date palms for under $20.  Most of my plants were bought at or below $20 as seeds or seedlings, and it brings me joy to watch them grow year after year.

Just doing some reading to see if one can successfully grow Medjool for fruit in the Florida environment In my off-PalmTalk research, I discovered that to get the same quality of fruit, you have to grow an offshoot. You won't get the same "luxurious" quality of fruit from a plant you grow from seed. Your thoughts?

Then again, maybe you're just growing them because you like the look of the plant 

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

To the original question this thread is about -   to me its both yes and no.   Yes of you are not rich and must make sacrifices on other things.  No if your wealthy and  a crazy expensive rare palm is barely a drop in a very large bucket for you.   At the end of the day we all love what we love, and we will do what we need to to have the things we love most.    Weather or not one is rich or poor is fairly irrelevant,what ultimately matters is the answer to one simple question.  Are you happy?   If you can say yes to that, then that makes you among the richest people on earth.   Remember, there are many many millions on this earth that don't even get to have any hobbies, let alone one as luxuriant as ours.   Many many millions or more on this earth are just thankful for their next meal.  It is all about perspective my friends.    I am def no rich man by any stretch, but I have most things I want and like and my needs are met and then some, and thus, I am a happy man.   

[kinzyjr]

On 8/28/2017, 1:06:32, Missi said:

Just doing some reading to see if one can successfully grow Medjool for fruit in the Florida environment In my off-PalmTalk research, I discovered that to get the same quality of fruit, you have to grow an offshoot. You won't get the same "luxurious" quality of fruit from a plant you grow from seed. Your thoughts?

Then again, maybe you're just growing them because you like the look of the plant 

It's option 2 in my case.  I like the blue/green look.  The fruit is off type for sure, and I haven't had any fruit reach edible maturity here.  Some of the old grove palms that were planted in our medians produce fruit, but it usually spoils before maturity as well.  There was a cultivar called Zahidi that is supposed to be even more humidity tolerant.  That's probably what I would need here.  Medjool is pretty much the middle ground as far as humidity tolerance.

[pin38]

I'm currently growing two Medjool Date seedlings that I germinated this last spring from grocery story date pits. Speaking of cheap... and you get a tasty snack as a bonus. They love the growing season here in Denver.

[DoomsDave]

Hmm. What's rich? And I hope this includes women too. (Must . . . stop . . . . there.)

In the urbanized areas of southern California, being rich certainly helps. Palm Society of Southern California members tend, as a group, to skew upscale. Land is expensive here, far and away the biggest cost in raising palms. You can, of course, raise palms in pots, but that's seriously limiting. I wouldn't want to grow things like Jubes and CIDPs to maturity in containers.

Cheap land, relative to incomes, is a thing of the past here, unless you're willing to endure hassles, like renting from the power company. (I had a chance to rent from SCE a property right next to Beverly Hills City Hall, with the only trailer in Beverly Hills on it. "Beverly Hills Trailer" sounds way too 80s.)

And, high-density housing is getting more and more prevalent. In the coastal zone, the average price for a detached house with land is about $400K to $600K depending on where you are, and the prices can easily spike from there.

[CLINODAVE]

I have an online friend who I don't think is wealthy (yet) as she is a young adult, but her love of plants and enthusiasm for container plantings tells me that our passion is not limited to the rich.

[JubaeaMan138]

It can be a rich mans hobby if you let it get to that point. If you are young enough it doesn't have to be . I'm 30 years old and I wish I would of got more into this hobby 10 years ago. I would have some killer palms. But I have time so I settle for smaller plants. Most palms you can find for under 20 dollars that are rare and would be worth a hole lot more if they were in 24 inch crates or bigger . But I have bought must of my stuff small and I think seeing the growing stages more rewarding then spending a ton of money for instant gratification. I have a handful of larger palms that I have spent way to much money on but I did it cause they are soooo slow Copernicias jubaeas and some Phoenix species I wanted that head start . Now onto collecting cycads which I have also got into. Now there is a rich mans hobby. 

[Kim]

Merely visiting a great palm garden is an enriching experience.   Not much money required for that.

[Hillizard]

2 minutes ago, Kim said:

Merely visiting a great palm garden is an enriching experience.   Not much money required for that.

And here's another thought along those lines: anyone can donate palms to arboretums, conservatories, public botanical gardens and zoos, for all to enjoy. Additionally, anyone can volunteer as a gardener -- to fit one's schedule and with no expense --  in those venues and watch the palms develop. For some of the slower-growing and long-lived species, generations will benefit from such generosity. 

It can be sad to learn of the passing of a homeowner who develop their garden with great care for decades, and now a new owner has different plans for this private space. Even if some large palms can be uprooted and sold off, many others cannot handle transplantation. Better to plant them where they're assured many decades of cultivation and appreciation. That's my two cents! 

[Missi]

1 hour ago, Hillizard said:

It can be sad to learn of the passing of a homeowner who develop their garden with great care for decades, and now a new owner has different plans for this private space. 

*cough* Old Naples *cough*

[Silas_Sancona]

A great topic with many great thoughts indeed..

On one hand, i'd agree that this can be quite a costly endeavor, or that the best of the best are most easily obtained by those who have the means to say, obtain the biggest specimens to satisfy the " instant gratification" look for their space. Some have this at their disposal and heck, why not go big if you can, correct?.. one could say it is like collecting.. anything.. Cars, antiques, etc.

Collecting orchids is another example that, in times past, was exclusively pursued by the especially wealthy. Now one can spend say $100. Once a year, at their favorite growers place and continuously grow a great collection, full of really neat stuff. Compared to many other things one could collect and/or spend money on, palms.. and/ or most plants are cheap. I've told many people in the past.. " I could be spending my money doing drugs, drunk, on nightly adventures to the local strip joint, or gambling. etc."

On the other hand, no, you don't have to be worth millions to gain the kind of richness that building collection of palms, or any other sort of plant can bring.

There can be a balance as well, ie: as mentioned, where one grows stuff from seed ( freely collected, traded, purchased at a reasonable price) Obtaining smaller specimens at reasonable prices, and perhaps budgeting for a few bigger purchases down the line .. stuff that takes its time reaching admirable size. Nothing wrong with that at all.

We see it here on the forum many times how rewarding it can be watching gardens started out with 1 or 5gal plants grow into show stopping places worth a visit. Like hearing the stories of how different stuff was obtained.. Imo, esp. the stories of how X palm was planted as a tribute, for a special occasion, or, how X specimen was obtained on a trip somewhere.. isn't that how the greats like Fairchild, or Mark Dimmitt started their legacy?

Donating extras to a local arboretum, community garden or park, ...where all can enjoy is another aspect of finding richness in this pursit. Add to that the priceless educational opportunities that come with this.. we all have green spaces in our communities that would look a whole lot nicer with some extra special eye candy.. 

As far as the garden, Dave has a great point, land, especially closer to the coast in CA. (Or parts of Florida for that matter) isn't cheap, and likely won't become any less expensive. Anyone starting out or looking at something bigger than a postage stamp sized yard has to be ok with living farther away from the most ideal locale.

I myself would be happy finding acouple acres say 30 min to an hour away from the beaches of San Diego and building a simple, ranch style home less than 2k Sq ft vs. shelling out 7-900k for an overpriced ( imo) 2 story home closer to ocean breezes. Its the land im after, not "fitting in/ keeping up with.."  I'd hate cleaning a big house anyway..

While not dirt cheap by any means, I've been surprised by how many land listings I have come across on zillow in the 280-400k range across San Diego county which, compared to San Jose CA. prices is a steal. In that case, finding something is still reasonable, at least for now.  Still, there are plenty of opportunities in less expensive, yet just as sunny states favorable for growing palms/ tropicals.

Failure can also be costly, and be a sign of richness.. how many times have we lost something special to the cold, heat, etc.. just to learn something quite valuable in the end. Surely loosing a batch of valuable seedlings can cause many choice words of frustration, trust me. 

Lastly, if there is one thing I have seen that can ruin such a rewarding hobby/ pursuit, it would be a high school-esque " I think im better than you because I have/ you don't have.." type of additude.. that certainly has no place in the garden, any garden.. or horticultural related group. The greatest plant people I have known or have met/ will meet are humble and are egar to teach great things to the next generation of gardeners/ collectors, ..regardless of how much is in your wallet, or level of knowledge.

No matter where they came from, where they live, or do to support themselves and/or family, these kind of people are the richest, .and the ones we remember the most, or  get to know more. 

A great garden isn't always as memorable if the care taker is a poor soul.

-Nathan

[Jamesasb]

On 12/01/2011, 01:48:14, trioderob said:

philosophy question-

 

 

is this a hobby for only the upper middle class and rich ?

not at all, i have been given many palms for free and seeds aswell

 

[Moose]

Rich as referring to personal income, don't qualify.

Rich in the process of acquiring my palm collection, growing them, developing friendships in the pursuit of, living long enough to see my palm vision on my property come to fruition - yes I am rich.

Did it one palm at a time. Few as 7 gallon plants, mostly 3 gallon plants, many more 1 gallon and smaller plants. Grateful for my garden.

[Cindy Adair]

I had missed this topic previously and just enjoyed reading all the funny, smart, insightful comments!

As many of you know I went from being a crazy plant collector dealing with two greenhouses (that I kept above 50 degrees) on a 3/4 acre lot with a modest house in suburban VA to a much cheaper multi acre property (where nature provides perfect temperatures) and space for most of the plants I love. 

Think of how nice it is to have water bills and electric bills under $40 each per month, so more money for plants and travel in my case.

Had I stayed in VA, and continued my plant obsession there, I would still need the full time job. In this case perhaps my hobby will over time save me money! 

Yes, you all reading this are correct-just another rationalization for more plant buying, but I like it nevertheless.