varieties of phoenix canariensis

[greekpalm]

does anyone knows if there are different varieties of CIDP ? as there are with Chamaerops humilis ( var. argentea & var. humilis )

[Butiagrus]

Hello,

you have the (Phoenix canariensis var. porphyrocarpa) with red fruits/seeds.

JBG

[Kris]

Hai

Here are few links for you ! hope you love it.....

http://www.palmtalk....?showtopic=2289

http://www.palmtalk....=1

Love,

kris

[greekpalm]

thank you Kris ! i appreciate your input .. and I've noticed your particular interest in CIDP .. do you know if " var. porphyrocarpa " grows faster compared to normal CIDP ?

thanks

[Kris]

.. do you know if " var. porphyrocarpa " grows faster compared to normal CIDP ?

thanks

Hai

To the best of my knowledge goes,it seem to be much slower in growth rate compared to the standard form of CIDP.But the leaf fronds are not arching as beautiful as seen in CIDP's.The leaves resembles very closely to a regular Phoenix Sylvestris palm.And since this red fruticas Cipd has Phoenix Dactylifera blood line in it.Its bound to be a slow grower.

And since our house garden does not get full sunlight but semi shade the grouth rate of these palms are much slower..Now its raining,Once we are in our early summer season,i will post new stills and if possible you-tube videos of those phoenix palms.

And wish you all the best with your CIDP...

Lots of love,

kris

[Geoff]

We see lots of 'varieties' of Phoenix canariensis here in Los Angeles... though really is it more a cultivational variation and one of hybridization... There are rows of very old Phoenix canariensis in Beverly Hills and a good portion of them look like they come from mixed marriages.

[Fallacia]

Geoff i can't see any hybridization on any of the two ph. canariensis because even in the canary islands in "clean" ph. canariensis population you can see foliage with more or less leaves, thick or thinner bark.

Today i discovered in my city that there is the only one phoenix porphyrocarpa although i live in there 25 years and especially i am "studying" the palms at least 7 years now, i saw it just today!! The only bad news is that these fruits from that palm are smaller (looking like phoenix loureiroi on the size) than the more normal sized fruits i saw in 2011 in Rethymno-Crete where there were 2 palms of that species near the old port. If anyone is interested i'll bring more of those fruits for seeds.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Fallacia

[Kostas]

Take a close look at the smaller,red fruits you saw Fallacia and check them for seed borers. I noticed that look on P. canariensis this year that I knew were normal fruiting(yellow/orange) and found the color and smaller size to be a result of severe seed borer infestation that caused aborting/rotting of the fruits and seeds. Needless to say,such fruits and seeds are totally useless and won't germinate. Saw whole infructescences like that and most palms in that region were not setting good seed due to it getting ruined by borers while forming.

[Phoenikakias]

Take a close look at the smaller,red fruits you saw Fallacia and check them for seed borers. I noticed that look on P. canariensis this year that I knew were normal fruiting(yellow/orange) and found the color and smaller size to be a result of severe seed borer infestation that caused aborting/rotting of the fruits and seeds. Needless to say,such fruits and seeds are totally useless and won't germinate. Saw whole infructescences like that and most palms in that region were not setting good seed due to it getting ruined by borers while forming.

Uh, uh...

[Fallacia]

Kostas i saw that the no destroyed or downtrodden fruits, hadn't inside any borer's hall-tunel except the destroyed fruits that had their seed in one only spot each one, a borer's hall but i think not so serious, i had seen worse leaky seeds on the past under a phoenix canariensis and phoenix theophrastii!! That porphyrocarpa palm has a "companionship" with a pine tree in its south side, so i can guess that the sun light and the heat is much less than of that the fruits need naturally to grow better.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Fallacia

[Phoenikakias]

Porphyrocarpa very probably blooms twice yearly namely in February/March and again in September/October. It may well be that blooming during one of those seasons does not overlap with the blooming of a male typical CIDP and thus produced fruits are unpollinated. Not to mention that mature male CIDP's become less and less available due to rpw .

[Kostas]

In that case it should be the true red fruited variety. The ones I talked about,the really few fruits in better condition,were orange. The reddish ones were dessicated and the seed black. The chances of germinating and growing a seedling from a seed with borers is quite low even with healthy embryo due to easy fungal infection of the endosperm,usually already from the borer itself.

Indeed,P. canariensis is becoming a rare palm in Greece and Europe. So much that it's worth growing and the expenses of protecting it. Plus a well grown pair is a sight to behold!

[Fallacia]

Phoenix canariensis a rare palm... WHAT?????

Maybe you had to tell about the phoenix theophrastii as a rare species in Europe, not canariensis.

I have been "bored" watching everywhere ph. canariensis palms. Rare palm??? ....OMG!!!!

[Phoenikakias]

P theophrasti is a lovely looking palm, I have three of them in my garden and still not a single genuine CIDP, but you have to face the cruel truth, theophrasti is not suitable for public places! As for the CIDP it is getting in some places much more rare than you may think. One example is the coastal Avenue of Athens, where 10 years ago it had the most crowded CIDP population in whole Europe, now you can not find one CIDP, all are dead and got replaced by Washies. Same in some parts of Glyfada, and after all we are talking about a future possibility and not an existing situation, though for the male CIDP's I pretty much fear they are close to total demise.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Phoenikakias

[Kostas]

Don't know how it is in your area, but here it's rare now... No more than a handful(?) remain in Pyrgos and general area and the kill rate is very fast and spreading. Wait a few more years and you will see its rarity increase all over Greece....

[Fallacia]

In other words you speak about that devil red beetle!! Yes you are true. In more southern places of Greece phoenix canariensis species had many deaths, mostly in Rhodes and Crete but serious damages had also the west parts of Greece and Athens. But i think phoenix theophrastii is a more strong species to replace the dead canariensis palms or the half of them and the other half the washingtonias. Especially in the middle "islet" in high speed avenues, how dangerous can be a spiny phoenix theophrastii for the people? I can't understand that?

Here in Lesvos we had only 4-5 dead phoenix canariensis in 2009. Nothing else. And fortunately we hadn't nothing the next years because we have a... palm forest here. 150-160 ph. canariensis, only the older 26-30 are from mans hand. The rest younger to young-mature are from... natural seedlings, that took part many many years ago, so we have today a small semi-natural palmforest in eastern Lesvos. This is Kalamiaris palmforest with phoenix canariensis. I'll post some photos when i can. One more but artificial planted is the Eresos palm forest but is huge and if we have any invader beetle in the future... "let's cry"!!!

Edited October 14, 2014 by Fallacia

[Kostas]

Let's hope it doesn't get introduced to the island again. I am from Pyrgos,Western Peloponissos, one of the very first areas where the weevil got introduced in the country(through P. dactylifera brought over by sea to the hotels and for public landscaping). The weevil is almost extinct locally in Pyrgos due to lack of P. canariensis now(only a handful remain that are protected by their owners). I don't see any nor any infections when I am late in my protection schedule. I am happy for that at least.