Props to So Cal growers.

[palmazon]

(happ @ Jan. 09 2007,21:06)

QUOTE

Those Australian "mastotermes" sound real nasty.  Hope they don't invade the U.S.

I actually spotted one crawling around in the brush at the Huntington

[Moose]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2006‎ ‎9‎:‎20‎:‎11‎, JD in the OC said:

I think the hurricanes are the only thing keeping me from strongly considering moving to FL.  You guys do get 5 times the growth speed that we do.  Tempting...... but I'll stick with Cali

 

JD

[BS Man about Palms]

8 hours ago, Moose said:

Hahah Nice bump Moose.... as I was reading this, JD's post leapt out at me too.... Seeing hime 2 weeks ago and him telling about the house he and the missus just bought in Florida..

 

[Matt in OC]

On 12/21/2006, 10:25:58, bgl said:

After checking this thread off and on a couple of times I think a couple of pros and cons - on a serious note - wouldn't hurt...

 

Among other things, Gary wrote: "...another year of extreem gardening which includes, but not limited to: planting palms in cages, heating cables for Coconuts, freeze warnings, putting tents and mini greenhouses over the jeveniles, and going into the garden at three in the morning to shovel the hail away from the trunks of our most prized palms."

 

Obviously all of us, and that includes me, who've been there can relate to some of these issues. Living in Poway I built a little 4 ft tall, 5 ft wide, mini greenhouse between our house and the wooden fence along the property line. And yes, I was out there at 3 a.m. on cold nights checking to make sure the light was still on and all the little palms were doing OK!! SO, when I make the following statement, I'm perfectly sincere: read that sentence again and read it from the point of view of someone who is NOT a palm (or plant) fanatic. At the very least that person would question the sanity of anyone involved in these activities. So, would that person be right or wrong in that assumption....??

 

I'm sure we all consider ourselves sane, despite some of our actions being, shall we say, somewhat unorthodox. The question is, where do we draw the line when we tell ourselves "OK, this is it. I've had it"?

For me personally that conclusion came VERY quickly. I told the story elsewhere, so the short version: I had just planted my first palms in Poway in Jan 1990 and 5 weeks later (Feb 14, 1990) I woke up to 22F. A month later I was over here on the Big Island looking for property! And this was a FULL YEAR before I even knew about the Palm Society. For various personal reasons, I wasn't able to make the move until 1995, but the seed was there from the very beginning.

 

We have known a lot of people who have moved over here from the U.S. mainland. Many of them stay and love it here. Some simply cannot adjust and move back. Usually, but certainly not always, it's the wife who wants to move back (generally for family reasons).

Some of the important differences and issues, and I'm trying to be as objective as I can in the name of fairness (and the comparison is between the windward, i.e. Hilo, side of the Big Island and So Cal, but can certainly apply almost just as well to the Bay Area or S. Florida):

 

Culture, dining out, sports events: This isn't even close. If these things are important to you, FORGET about moving here. Cultural events certainly do exist here, but obviously not on the same level. Dining out is great here, but you have such a small number of restaurants to choose from that you tend to become a regular.l But that may be good or bad, depending on your viewpoint! Sports: I'm not interested in team sports but I do know that this is NOT the place!

 

Traffic: If you're used to gridlock and rush hour traffic in a major metropolitan area, Hilo and surroundings is like you've died and gone to heaven. And that's despite the fact that traffic is MUCH worse now than it was just 3-4 years ago.

 

Family: in the majority of cases moving here involves a separation from family, be it siblings, parents, grown children or whatever. For me this was not an issue since my only sibling, my sister, lives in Sweden (and our two grown children did not live close by anyway). I have found however, that when my sister and I do spend time together (at least once a year) we talk about a lot of issues that we would probably never get around to if we lived in the same community.

 

Jobs: unless you are in a unique position (self employed OR work for a company that can transfer you), OR you are retired, you will have a hard time finding a good paying job here. BUT, things are better now than they were just a few years ago because the Big Island's economy is booming.

 

Natural disasters: the Big Island can be, and has been, exposed to earthquakes and tsunamis and a couple of close calls with hurricanes (but no direct hit). The current volcanic eruption began in Jan 1983, almost 24 years ago, and the Puna and Hilo districts are all possible targets when Mauna Loa blows it top, or when Kilauea has an eruption in a different location than the present one. The village of Kapoho got completely wiped out by an eruption in 1960. How these future disasters compare with disasters on the mainland is anyone's guess!

 

"Rock fever" or "island fever" - obviously not an issue on the mainland, but a question I was asked quite a few times before moving here. I have never, ever, heard anyone on the Big Island complain about this. On a smaller island, like Kauai, I can certainly see it happening but the Big Island is large enough that this is not likely to happen.

 

Weather from a personal comfort point of view: having lived in S. Florida, S. California and now here, I can definitely say that on average, this is the most comfortable climate you can experience anywhere in the USA. We have no internal heat OR a/c in our house. How many other places do you know where that's possible? Humidity is rather high most of the time, but because of the (almost) constant tradewinds it's not as unbearable as S. Florida, plus even during a very hot summer afternoon here it'll typically only get up in the upper 80s. Open the windows and turn on the ceiling fan, and things are great!

 

Weather from a palm point of view: OK, now we're getting to the meat... If you're seriously into growing palms, what could possibly be better than to be in a place where Areca vestiaria, Pinanga caesia and Verschaffeltia splendida, to just name three, self germinate like crazy on the ground? Where growth rate is amazing, and where rainfall is so plentyful that no artificial irrigation is necessary. These are the things that "clinched" it for me. Seeing tropical palms open up new fronds in December and January was a beautiful experience in the beginning, but something that you (unfortunately) tend to take for granted after a few years!

 

If I forgot a particular issue, feel free to bring it up!

Great bump, Moose. Curious if Bo has any updates to this great post, 12 years later?

[bgl]

Wow, and wow again!  Yeah, thanks for the bump, Moose! And Matt, well, I'm sure I can do a bit of an update.  Not much has changed in these 12 years when it comes to the major issues. And I'm speaking only for the Hilo side of the Big Island, and specifically the Puna district, south of Hilo. We have experienced a major influx of people moving here from places like CA, OR and AK. Well, it's been "major influx" for us living here. Pahoa town, which was a pretty sleepy little place when I moved here in 1995 has seen quite a bit of growth, with new stores and restaurants, and it's a MUCH busier place than it was some 20 years ago. It's still a quaint little place compared to most places on the mainland, though. Hilo itself actually has something close to "rush hour traffic", but "rush hour traffic Hilo style". It's MOVING - it's just that there are more cars than there used to be. Also, parking in the downtown area, especially on Saturdays when the Farmers' Market is in full swing, can be somewhat tricky. Don't get me wrong, there's always a parking spot SOMEWHERE (and it's free), but you may have to walk a block or two.

About the friendliness here - the longer you live here, the more you experience and feel this. Almost no matter where you go, especially in Hilo, chances are you will run into someone you know and you end up having an unexpected and pleasant chat for 10-20 minutes. That's pretty unique. And related to that, and for a number of years now, Hilo has a non-stop flight to the U.S. Mainland. And you might ask "what's the big deal with that?" Well, let me explain - United Airlines is the only airline flying to Hilo from the U.S. Mainland: a daily non-stop out of Los Angeles (LAX). What's interesting about this flight and the small United station at Hilo airport is that everybody is like family. And the same flight attendants will bid for this Hilo flight so you tend to recognize them and they tend to recognize you. One of the female flight attendants is Swedish-American and she will great me in Swedish when I step on the plane. (Yeah, can't help it - I get a kick out of that!  ). Boarding this 737 at LAX is almost like being home already. On one of my flights last year when I got to the Gate at LAX, guess who was there already, waiting to board: Jerry and Cindy Andersen!  Not only that, but they had the two seats right behind me on the plane!  And I have had similar experiences with other people here that I know.

And since this thread was active a dozen years ago, and as many of you know, I have moved out of my old garden and I am now in the process of slowly and haphazardly developing my new two acre "garden".  And I use the word "garden" in the loosest of terms - parts of it are more like an untamed jungle. But that's part of the fascination. I mean - who of us wouldn't want his or her private jungle!?

OK, enough of that!

[Matt in OC]

Great post. Thanks, Bo! I love the Hilo side of the big island and could almost envision living there but realize it’s pretty unrealistic at this point due to a number of reasons laid out in your original post. One can always visit!

[JD in the OC]

I thought I would opine on this tread since Moose dragged me into it   It was good to see you and Bill Sanford at Jeff's sale!  In fact, Bill was a lot of the reason why I made the drive over- haven't had any of my old Cali palm peeps out here in more than 10 years.  And he still has the Chambey Houailou I sold him and it's doing well apparently.

It's true that I did at one time swear never to move to FL due to the hurricanes.  I suppose this is a good lesson in "never say never".  Having lived in CA for 23 years and FL for almost 11 years now, I just wanted to continue Bo's informative post, but in a CA-FL comparison.  First off, I've only lived through one hurricane- Irma.  And I would take a hurricane over a SoCal wildfire ANY day of the week!  (The neighborhood I grew up in in Yorba Linda was devastated by wildfires 12 years ago).  The reasons I moved here were 1)the more palm-friendly climate in which I could better pursue my horticultural career, 2)Derek, my business partner, located a retail nursery for rent in a prime location, and 3)the fact that I wasn't tied down at all in CA.  The first few years here were really rough, but after the initial tumult, things began to upturn.  And 9 years after moving, I was able to cut work to 35 hours a week, and God has blessed me with a wife, three businesses, two homes, and I'm part of a great local church that is growing.  I do miss my family and friends in the OC and San Diego, but as far as the quality of life here in Florida, I couldn't have asked for more:

-We have a sub-tropical climate, lower taxes, almost non-existent freeway traffic, an 8-min commute to work, no smog, one of the highest population and business growth rates in the country (having just passed up NY), and all of the amenities that SoCal had to offer except snow skiing and surfing over 6ft overhead. 

-You can get a nice 3bed/2bath with a pool and a yard for $200k.  Our sales tax is 6%.  No state income tax.  Car registration is $80/year.  Gas is $2.40/gallon. 

-Most of the population here is either retired or on vacation, so it is very laid back, there is some southern hospitality, and everyone is in an overall good mood.  It is quite the juxtaposition when compared to the rat race of Los Angeles/Orange County.

-Golf, yacht, and sport-fishing capital of the world!

-It is only a few hours to fly to the Bahamas, the Keys, Mexico, Costa Rica, Cuba, New York, Toronto, and lots of other fun cities.

Now, there are some negatives to living here such as a lack of good Mexican restaurants (or healthy eating in general), the older population (think Golden Girls), no hills/mountains, and limited job opportunities.  Hurricanes and mosquitoes too (they spray them in bigger cities).  Also, with regard to work, we only have three main industries: service/tourism, medical, and agriculture/horticulture.  Many people move here and find they can't get a job in other industries than those.

I just got a new yard last November and will be posting pictures of its progress soon.  Thanks for reading.  

JD