Allagoptera (Polyandrococos) caudescens

[Tyrone]

I've just acquired a fairly sizeable Allagoptera caudescens that had been growing in a pot neglected for many years behind a shadehouse. Does anyone know the best way to grow these so they look great. ie Do they want full sun or part shade? I know they grow in sandy soil so I should be able to accommodate that requirement rather easily.

Picture following soon.

Best regards

Tyrone

[ariscott]

Hey... I have a little one too... still in the shadehouse, growing well. It will be a while before it goes in, but it is interesting what others will say...

Regards, Ari

[peachy]

Tyrone, mine is in a pot at the side of the carport. (I actually forgot it was there and only found it a week ago) It gets filtered sun from noon till late afternoon then full sun and it looks great. Considering its been neglected and hidden among other stuff for so long, I am amazed by what a tough little beastie it is.

[quaman58]

Tyrone,

For better or worse, I'm treatinting them like Allagoptera arenaria & leucocalyx; that is full sun. Both plants are still small, but so far so good.

Bret

[Al in Kona]

Tyrone, I've got two Allagoptera caudescens that were planted in ground (rocky soil) as very small 1-gallon size plants and they have been in full sun the whole time without any problems. I'd consider them to be slow growers, especially so during their first few years. This picture shows my biggest one and a smaller one can be seen partially hidden to the rear right of the picture.

[Tyrone]

Here's the palm in question. Thanks for the replies. In the sun sounds best.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Detail looking at spear etc. These are a beautiful palm especially with all the white under the leaves.

Best regards

Tyrone

[ariscott]

What a score, Tyrone.... Keep us updated... Mine is tiny compared to yours..

Regards, Ari

[Tyrone]

Thanks Ari. When I saw it there my eyes nearly popped out of my head.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Wanderanwills]

Good find Tyrone, it is a really good size! and healthy.

Regards

Stephen

[BS Man about Palms]

Very Nice find Tyrone, should be good to go!!

[Really full garden]

Here they do best with partial sun.They do speed up when the leaves go pinnate.

[ariscott]

Do they burn there, Scott?? Good to know since our climate is not that much different

[Really full garden]

Do they burn there, Scott?? Good to know since our climate is not that much different

Ari, I did burn one at my beach place.It even had some shade in late afternoon.I think they look so much better and it really shows off their silver undersides.

[Tyrone]

I got this flowering Lytocaryum for $30 from the same place. He'll go with my other one in the garden.

Thanks for the part shade info Scott. Perth sun can get harsh so part shade may be the go here for the P caudescens.

Best regards

Tyrone

[garrin]

I tend to look at the natural habitat when considering what a palm will like. Considering that Allagoptera arenaria grows most thickly in the beach dune habitats near Rio, I assume that they get a lot of very hot unshaded sun. But we have to consider where the palm was growing before it got to our gardens -- most nursery grown plants come from shade houses so it is good to allow them sufficient adaptation to the sun. Here in the east (rainy) side of Hawaii's Big Island I have planted Allagoptera seedlings in full sun with great results. If you can judge from that, I'm glad to give this info.

[ariscott]

I really doubt that Allagoptera arenaria & Allagoptera caudescens will have the same requirements, even though they are now lumped in the same genus. They just look too different!! I have both and yes, my Allagoptera arenaria are growing in FULL sun.

Regards, Ari

[Charles Wychgel]

My A.arenaria never burned in full sun, A.caudescens burned heavily when planted out in full sun; they had a setback of almost two years and this is in a climate that is almost similar as yours Tyrone

Leaflets of A.arenaria are a lot thicker and more leathery than A.caudescens which explains their sun resistance

A.leucocalyx is another one that is as resistant to full sun as A.arenaria

[Tyrone]

Ok. This all very good info. I'm beginning to think a place with morning sun and then shade during midday then maybe afternoon sun in summer, but also a place that gets full sun in winter. So for me on the north side under canopy.

Thanks guys.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Mandrew968]

I have two of these that are already pinnate. Why is it that every book I read says they love the full sun, like a Copernicia?! Yet anyone with experience, I talk to, says they can't take full sun, and they do well in the shade. I am leaning towards putting them in the shade, but why does all the publishing say full sun??? Who has one in full sun that's done/doing well? Because until I hear from them, I'm saying this palm can't take full South Florida sun...

[mike in kurtistown]

I saw some of these in their natural habitat in southern Brazil during the Rio biennial. They inhabit the dense jungle of the Atlantic coastal forests. Henderson says that they "persist in cleared areas". I've seen good specimens in gardens there, like Harri Lorenzi's garden, in at least partial sun.

[realarch]

Ran across this palm at a PRA not too long ago and posted it for ID. Good ole Matty B. identified it as Allagoptera caudescens. Looking at

the inflorescence I think it's a correct one. Thanks for posting the pics, the juvenile palms are just as beautiful as the adult.

[Dr. George]

Pics taken in private garden, Kona side, Big Island, HI:

gmp

[edbrown_III]

I saw this one in Jardim Botanico in Rio

[Al in Kona]

I have two of these that are already pinnate. Why is it that every book I read says they love the full sun, like a Copernicia?! Yet anyone with experience, I talk to, says they can't take full sun, and they do well in the shade. I am leaning towards putting them in the shade, but why does all the publishing say full sun??? Who has one in full sun that's done/doing well? Because until I hear from them, I'm saying this palm can't take full South Florida sun...

You asked who has one growing in full sun? Well I do, infact I have two in full Kona upslope sun conditions and do very well here. We do tend to get a lot of afternoon cloud cover. However, there are days of sun all day but that is more likely to happen during the winter season when it tends to be a few degrees cooler.

[stygiana]

Here is my view on A. caudescens sun tolerance. It works also for quite a few other species.

If it ever gets both sunny and dry, I mean with low air moisture, then forget about it.

Sun + low humidity + extreme heat (like what you may experience almost anywhere on Australia's mainland, or here on the Eastern Canarian islands as well as the Western islands' leeward side) will burn your A. caudescens.

While if you have sun + reasonable heat (like in Hawaii, or on La Palma's windward side) + constant, dependable good air moisture, then you won't have any trouble.

[Mandrew968]

I have two of these that are already pinnate. Why is it that every book I read says they love the full sun, like a Copernicia?! Yet anyone with experience, I talk to, says they can't take full sun, and they do well in the shade. I am leaning towards putting them in the shade, but why does all the publishing say full sun??? Who has one in full sun that's done/doing well? Because until I hear from them, I'm saying this palm can't take full South Florida sun...

You asked who has one growing in full sun? Well I do, infact I have two in full Kona upslope sun conditions and do very well here. We do tend to get a lot of afternoon cloud cover. However, there are days of sun all day but that is more likely to happen during the winter season when it tends to be a few degrees cooler.

You Hawaiians can grow all sorts of shade palms in your full sun, but there's a huge difference between Hawaiian sun and South Florida sun...

[Gonzer]

Page 181 of Palms of the World by McCurrach, full sun in Rio photo.

[mike in kurtistown]

Since this thread has re-emerged, I'll post photos of two A. caudascens I saw on the Rio biennial and post-tour. The two trunked ones were in a waterfront park in Rio. The huge non-trunked one was in Harri Lorenzi's garden. I suspect that the crowns diminish in size when the trees start trunking.

[Tyrone]

Some beautiful pictures here. Still trying to figure out where to put mine, but it will not be in direct midday summer sun. It will never be a canopy emergent and survive in my climate. It's doing very well in it's 90L pot and has put out some lovely leaves and is very happy in a sunny dappled light area in my nursery. I don't want to put it in too much shade and have it languish, idling along trying to stay alive.

Best regards

Tyrone

[richnorm]

Sun is no problem here but they are not happy below 5c in our damp climate. I think mine will live but only until I run out of patience.

[DoomsDave]

Planted out a couple of A. caudescens yesterday.

Hmm. They do get large in the crown, don't they?

Mine are planted a bit close to the path . . . .

[SanDimas]

BUMP...

DoomsDave

Any update pic on your caudescens?

I have one of these as well.

Thanx.

Ritchy

[Phoenikakias]

How many of you, who have succeeded with caudescens , use a very porous growing medium?

[Beach palm]

I have two growing in 6 gallon pots in full south florida sun. No burn at all. They seem to be very happy.

[Alberto]

This pic (not very good quality) is of the same palm at the Jardim Botânico Plantarum from Harri Lorenzi. Shows big infructescences and ripe fruits;

[SanDimas]

Alberto,

As in response #29(Aug 17, 2011).

As a juvenile pretrunk stage.... long Attalea like leaf length?

Then as it trunks....the leaf length shortens to like a pygmy date palm size?

Mines just turned pinate 5G size pot. Its located full SoCAL sun

but the leaf color is not as deep green as pictured here from another thread......

Posted 25 August 2009 - 02:52 PM

This is my current favorite palm and at this particular moment this plant is about to go pinnate on me.The camera does not capture the beautiful silver underside of the leaf.These were until recently Polyandrococos caudescens.I have mine in mostly bright shade with filtered sun in the early morning.This one is going to be planted in my new highland garden next year.

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[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I am always trying things out to see what new plants will surprise me and grow here. I planted one of these last Spring, I didn't think it would be a go here, but surprise surprise, not only did it sail through the early December freeze, but it's pushing a nice healthy new spear as right now and we're heading towards the end of January. Seems this is a great little candidate palm for Southern California if it does this well this far North. It lost all sun exposure around September, so it's growing in a relatively cool environment. It did much better than a pritchardia hildebrandii blue right next to it that is ok but has spots on the leaves.

I never cease to be amazed how some palms of real tropical origin can grow in much cooler conditions. It's not clear to me how this got shuffled out of the allagoptera genus, but it must have pretty strongely related genetics to the rest of the allagoptera genus which all seems to have a good dose of chill tolerance.

[Sabal Steve]

I am always trying things out to see what new plants will surprise me and grow here. I planted one of these last Spring, I didn't think it would be a go here, but surprise surprise, not only did it sail through the early December freeze, but it's pushing a nice healthy new spear as right now and we're heading towards the end of January. Seems this is a great little candidate palm for Southern California if it does this well this far North. It lost all sun exposure around September, so it's growing in a relatively cool environment. It did much better than a pritchardia hildebrandii blue right next to it that is ok but has spots on the leaves. I never cease to be amazed how some palms of real tropical origin can grow in much cooler conditions. It's not clear to me how this got shuffled out of the allagoptera genus, but it must have pretty strongely related genetics to the rest of the allagoptera genus which all seems to have a good dose of chill tolerance.

Has your P. hildebrandii shown any blue? I have a large 5 gallon that hasn't exhibited any of the blue trait yet.

[Sabal Steve]

This pic (not very good quality) is of the same palm at the Jardim Botânico Plantarum from Harri Lorenzi. Shows big infructescences and ripe fruits;

That thing looks.like a monster! Any idea on the crown width?