Jubeopsis caffra in zone9

[edbrown_III]

I planted this tree in mid 90's after freezes. It is a zone 10 plant so had to plant up against the house for protection. consequently the photos arent so good as I have other zone 10 plnts against the house

[edbrown_III]

other photo.

[Patrick]

nice palm(s) Ed!

Whereabouts are you located?? I'm growing some caffras up here in northern california. I'm curious to see how they'll do. Keep up the good work!

[Alberto]

(edbrown_III @ Dec. 10 2006,13:18)

QUOTE

I planted this tree in mid 90's after freezes. It is a zone 10 plant so had to plant up against the house for protection. consequently the photos arent so good as I have other zone 10 plnts against the house

Hi Ed,

Nice Jubaeopsis!

What are your other´´zone 10´´plants?

I know you grow a brazilian´´carnaúba´´(Copernicia prunifera)How it fares through the winters? Strange but I cannot find one here in Brazil!

[ghar41]

(Patrick @ Dec. 10 2006,14:40)

QUOTE

I'm growing some caffras up here in northern california. I'm curious to see how they'll do. Keep up the good work!

I just recently purchased some seed.  This is the first time I have tried them from seed, I hear they are difficult to germinate.

Where did you find/purchase your plants, if you don't mind my asking?  

If you grew them from seed...any tips or ideas on germination?

[edbrown_3]

These are seed grown, I visited the habitat with a good  friends (in 1986)  and collected about 300 seeds---   I got about 6 germinations ,  I gave a few to Kopsick (one remains there) and a few to friends over the years.  

I didnt get good germination and tried differnt methods with a lot I collected in 1991 .  I just kept the one and it is pictured.  The second one at the Kopsick is larger as te climate is better.

Some folks remove endocarp and plant the seed and it works mine always rotted though.

There is one in Port Elizab eth which is pretty cool and I think htere is one at Stellenbosch in Capetown ( Dennis and other South Africans can opine here)--- This might give you a barometer of SF survivability.

Alberto ,

I have Copecia prunifera or alba---   the flowers are intermediate and I collected the seed from bot garden so it might be a hybrid. It has survived 21F ( -5or -6 C ?) several times.  Other is D. decaryii but up against the house and I put a heating pad to protect trunk when real low. Other zone 10s are a few Encephalartos.

Best regards,

Ed

[edbrown_3]

These are seed grown, I visited the habitat with a good  friends (in 1986)  and collected about 300 seeds---   I got about 6 germinations ,  I gave a few to Kopsick (one remains there) and a few to friends over the years.  

I didnt get good germination and tried differnt methods with a lot I collected in 1991 .  I just kept the one and it is pictured.  The second one at the Kopsick is larger as te climate is better.

Some folks remove endocarp and plant the seed and it works mine always rotted though.

There is one in Port Elizab eth which is pretty cool and I think htere is one at Stellenbosch in Capetown ( Dennis and other South Africans can opine here)--- This might give you a barometer of SF survivability.

Alberto ,

I have Copecia prunifera or alba---   the flowers are intermediate and I collected the seed from bot garden so it might be a hybrid. It has survived 21F ( -5or -6 C ?) several times.  Other is D. decaryii but up against the house and I put a heating pad to protect trunk when real low. Other zone 10s are a few Encephalartos.

Best regards,

Ed

[iwan]

(ghar41 @ Dec. 11 2006,10:27)

QUOTE

(Patrick @ Dec. 10 2006,14:40)

QUOTE

I'm growing some caffras up here in northern california. I'm curious to see how they'll do. Keep up the good work!

I just recently purchased some seed.  This is the first time I have tried them from seed, I hear they are difficult to germinate.

Where did you find/purchase your plants, if you don't mind my asking?  

If you grew them from seed...any tips or ideas on germination?

Glenn,

Soaked three days.  Germinated in less than 6 weeks with seeds in standard medium, covered with moist sphagnum moss.  80% germination.  One quickly rotted, but the other seven are holding their own.  Maybe I was lucky and got some very good/fresh seed, but I used the same method used on Jubaea and the seeds germinated about one month faster than uncovered seeds.

I thought this was going to be a much stronger candidate for zone 9.  Guess I will find out soon.  I am going to plant out two this spring and pot up the rest.

[ron@springhammock]

Zone 10, really?  ...damn.

[ghar41]

Actually....lots of literature and comments from palmophiles around California place Jubaeopsis caffra as at least as cold tolerant than even the Queen palm, if not more so.

Can anyone else comment on this?

[edbrown_3]

Ghar41,

possibly but not much data here in Florida

Theres 1 at UA Youngs that survived freezes of 85 and one at Daytona Beach that tolerated 85 freeze.

Mucurrach 1960 reports the one at Huntington then was killed by a freeze in the late 50's

I am hoping Dennnis or one of the South Africans can report if there is one at Capetown which has a San Francisco like climate.

Best regards,

Ed

[Jim in Los Altos]

Palms For Southern California (reference guide) says they are hardy to 22F. The author states that the low temp figures are conservative so it may be a reliably hardy palm a few degrees lower than that 22F

Glenn, I got a seedling from Gary Wood three years ago and it's growing fine in the ground its second year.

[ed110220]

Where abouts in Stellenbosch might it be? Stellenbosch is a town about 50 km East of Cape Town (note spelling!) and slightly away from the coast and its influences.

I'm not sure about Cape Town being similar to San Francisco, I have not been there but isn't it known for its fog? We don't get that.

[edbrown_III]

I visited Capetown in 1991 so my memories are hazy.. I thought I saw a exhibit sveral native of palms. If they arent there ..  

Capetown is the prettiest city I have ever visited (San Francisco is 3rd after Rio deJaneiro). I was relating it to

San Francsico as I think it is frost free and has a winter rainfall pattern. --- but I hadnt thought about the fog .

I only have the perspective of 2 visits   and it was during your winter.

I saw alot of your Cyathea capensis and Cyathea dregei there also which colored my opinion-- I am thinking how this was simular to prehistoric park at Golden Gate with the forest of Dicksonia antarticas.

Best regards,

Ed

[richtrav]

Ed

I didn't know there was one in Daytona Beach, do you have a picture of it by chance?

Richard

[edbrown_III]

Its in Jacksonville not Daytona

Ed

[ron@springhammock]

Hi Ed,

I'm about ready to put one in the ground; any tips on how to care for them?  Should I keep them away from overhead irrigation?  Are they more for dry versus damp soil? ...acid or alkaline? ...any special requirements?

Ron

[bahia]

Cape Town is probably more similar in climate and temperature range to San Diego than San Francisco, in any case, it is definitely cooler in both summer and winter here in San Francisco, although we don't get as much strong winds as Cape Town does.  The amount of wind was the main difference I noted in visiting Cape Town, and how the most expensive neighborhoods were always the most wind protected areas.

It didn't appear that Cape Town got the typical marine layer fogs off the ocean that we get here, but they most definitely get fog at the tops of the peaks that spills down into the valleys below.  I would have to agree that Cape Town, Rio de Janeiro and San Francisco are some of the most beautiful settings in the world for cities, and would probably include Hong Kong as well.

[Utopia Palms]

Hi All

In habitat these palms grow on sandstone right on the coast they seem to be growing best from what I have been told when they are on fresh water springs and some are even bellow the high tide mark, so they can handle salt very well. These palms should take the cold quite well

I will not say too much more as I think that there is a very good article being written for the palms journal by Michael ferrero very soon that should be much more informative than what I have just given, another good reason to be a member of the IPS gang of palm lovers.

There are many ways to germinate these seeds one of the way’s that seems to be working very well in Africa is that they are placing the seeds in scrub hens nest which is normally kepted at around 36C with this heat and the natural break down of the mulch or material in these nests they seem to germinate very well, another way worth trying is buy placing them in a bag with damp peat moss and then placing this in your car’s dash board the seeds must heat up to 45C plus in here, and after about one month most seem to germinate very well also.

I hope this might help in a few different ways to try to germinate these seeds or other seeds that are normally harder to germinate,

Ps we have bush turkeys here in Australia that makes this same sort of nest so I will give both ways a try and see how we go. ???

All the best

Clayton

[ron@springhammock]

(Utopia Palms @ Mar. 24 2007,18:46)

QUOTE

There are many ways to germinate these seeds one of the way’s that seems to be working very well in Africa is that they are placing the seeds in scrub hens nest which is normally kepted at around 36C with this heat and the natural break down of the mulch or material in these nests they seem to germinate very well.

Anybody know where I can get a scrub hen in Florida?  Maybe an alligator's nest will do?

[SubTropicRay]

Very nice Ed.

[edbrown_III]

Ron, To add to the commentary.  I grow them up against the house .  So the drainage is a bit better.  I have a high water table .  They are  up about 1 foot above the drainage.  I gave several  to Kpsik in St. Pete. only one made it into the ground .  I think it is prospering so you could look at growing conditions as well as UA Youngs plant in Tampa

I am in North Florida so more freezes etc and cold during winter that arrests growing.  I got about 3 trunks in 20 years. One was growing into house. I tried to remove it but didnt find roots unfortunately. They have seen lows of 21 F but I put poly over them to protect. The plant does not have the cracks of the Dypsis next to it .

I have maybe 3 foot of trunk on large one.

Relative to germination. I tried this in 86 and 91 long before this conventional wisdom of today.  The 2 theories (tehn) were  feeding oxygen to the plant during germination and second was put them in a pot and forget.  I used the latter.

South Africans had recommended in a later article to find dominant eye in the seed and notch that.  

I stand corrected on the climate of Capetown ..  I guess as you go further up the mountain at Stellonbosch you get cooler climate and mist/fog. That is where I saw the large grove of  Cyathea capensis.

Best regards,

Ed

[ron@springhammock]

Ed,

Thanks for the info, though it's kind of like trying to get a recipe from my mom...a little of this, a little of that, but never enough info to really know how she does it.  Besides your genus at growing things that shouldn't really grow where you're at, I suspect your high water table may have something to do with your success at growing this palm, i.e. dry surface, but constant supply of moisture below the surface.  This leaves me with a real dilemma, I have a good 20-25 foot drop in elevation on my urban lot, but the bottom elevation is in deep shade while the sunny top elevation, where I want to plant my palm, is far from the water table.  I thought of digging a very deep hole and filling it with plenty of peat so the roots have a fairly easy path towards the water table.  I wasn't sure if I should add other items to this, particularly lime.  Most plants on my sand hill concentrate their roots on the top 3-6 inches natural mulch, but than most of these plants know how to grow on a sugar sand hill.  This is probably not a problem you had to consider, but I would love to get your opinion on how you would deal with the situation.

[edbrown_III]

I would plant it in the sun and run drip to it.  I think you would just have to water to take the edge off the spring droughts. The more you water the more you have to weed also.

The one at Kopsik is in full sun and I guess it gets municipal irrigation. The ones in Huntington also.   The one at    UA Youngs, I dont knwo how much irrigation.

The ones in habitat,  I visited in Aug. September.. It was very dry. They were growing in crevices on a cliff. so the roots probably werent that deep.

I never really watered mine or worried about moisture. but I waited until it was a 25 gallon plant with plenty of roots before planting.

I am hoping this will alleviate some fears.

Best regards,

Ed

[ed110220]

The climate of the Cape Town metropolitan area varies very dramatically over small distances. For example the low-lying Cape Flats area have little over 400 mm of rain per year mostly in the cooler winter months. Coupled with a 'soil' of almost pure aeolian sand that drains like a collinder and strong drying winds that blow in the Summer and Autumn, it can be pretty harsh growing conditions. Places on the slopes of the mountains like at Kirstenbosch get a lot more rain (up to 1800 mm I think) and can be more sheltered from the wind. I don't think the famous Raphia australis at Kirstenbosch would fare well as little as 10 km away.

[PalmGuyWC]

A little info about my Jubeopsis:  I've always thought of it as a temprate palm, one that grows well in S. Calif. but kind of marginal in N. Calif.  I have not seen a large one in N. Calif. nor have I ever seen a "robust" one in S. Fla.

I was very surprised to see one for sale at the S. Fla. palm sale several years ago. It was a well grown 5 gal. size and expensive. The cost for shipping it to Calif by air was more expensive than what I paid for the palm.  It did well in a pot for 2 or 3 years, growing slowly, but still growing.  Unfortunately, I missed watering it and it almost went into shock.  I let it get way to dry. That was 2 years ago and the palm has slowly recovered, and I put it in the ground last summer.

When I removed it from the pot, I found it had a very weak root system, hardly any roots at all.  This leads me to believe that this palm doesn't like to get on the dry side.  Mine took about 24F this winter with no damage, but during the 2nd freeze and colder, I put a cover over it, and suplemental heat from a 100 W. light.  With 3 weeks of warmer than normal weather, it's started to open a new frond. I'm sure Jubeopsis is marginal for my climate and I'll probably protect it if low temps are expected. In N. Calif. Sunset zone 15 or 16 would probably suit this palm.  I'm zone 14 and colder. San Francisco which is zone 17 would probably be to cool for it.

Dick

[edbrown_3]

Dick,

you are right about the small roots .it took me the better part of 10 years to fill a 25 gallon pot.

Best regards,

Ed

[palmsrgreat]

I just placed my order for a nice 5 gal. It will be here later this week. I was debating on whether or not to keep it in a container or plant it out. I'm pretty sure I'll stick it in the ground as soon as it arrives.

Is anyone else growing this in Houston? I hope it likes humidity....