New Members

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Okay so you have grown palms for a decade or three and have the basics by now. Along comes a new member to palmtalk who asks something basic or has been misinformed. You think its a stupid question...but to those who dont know all the answers, its important to them or they would not have asked it. Sometimes I notice a distinct lack of kindness to the new members by many of our knowlegable oldsters. Could we not sit back and recall our own first palms and all the things we didnt know about, then be generous with our time and information, maybe a few words of encouragement and making newbies feel welcome will keep them coming back and one day being able to share their own experiences with future new people. It's all about the palms kiddies, not our own feelings of superiority.

Peachy

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Peachy, I waited almost a year before posting the first time. I wanted to have a little "palm knowledge" under my belt, before making a complete fool out of myself by asking what I thought were rookie questions. To you lurkers out there, c'mon out & identify yourselves! :D Randy

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That is quite sad that you had to wait so long before you had the confidence to ask a question. This is one of the issues I was hoping this topic might help to address. To quote Tyrone, the only stupid question is the one you should have asked. (or something along those lines.) Of course rookies ask rookie questions...thats why they are rookies. :hmm: Now to any newcomers reading this, the term 'Lurkers' is not a pejorative, its just palmtalk slang for people who are too shy or too embarrassed to post questions or topics or just like to keep a low profile. The question you ask just might save a palm so lets be a lurker free zone.

Peachy

Edited by peachy
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In general If a newbie asks a question and has say less than 25 posts under their belt and I don't KNOW them personally, I tend to answer fairly politely if I know the answer. I also try to at least respond in some way in a lot of the newbies threads, even if I don't know the answer, just so they know someone is reading it....

I try to save the snark for people I know and folks with maybe 75+ posts.. :D

But, Peachy, Maybe you saw something in another thread recently that prompted this. I do remember reading somewhat of a "slapdown" to a newish poster somewhere here recently and I really winced. I wasn't sure whether to chastise the veteran on the thread, in a PM, or just let it be ignored. Sadly I chose the latter.

Thanks for putting words to this, I've heard from many that they like it here because that sort of thing doesn't happen. Lets keep it that way.

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I've been "slapped up" as well as "slapped down" before. laugh.gif Not all new newbies are compassionate and knowledge-seeking. Despite that, if a new member comes across well in their first post, they will always get a welcome from me.

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This topic dovetails nicely with the recent "women member" topic, in that the lesson is to just make people feel welcome.

Just as we should be sensitive here to women, children, other cultures, and religions, we should also remember that not all new participants are aware or immune to our sporadic outbreaks of snarkisms.

I think as a rule, new members are treated kindly and given a great welcome. But until they become accustomed to the occasional snark attack, it might be wise to keep that in mind.

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That is quite sad that you had to wait so long before you had the confidence to ask a question. This is one of the issues I was hoping this topic might help to address. To quote Tyrone, the only stupid question is the one you should have asked. (or something along those lines.) Of course rookies ask rookie questions...thats why they are rookies. :hmm: Now to any newcomers reading this, the term 'Lurkers' is not a pejorative, its just palmtalk slang for people who are too shy or too embarrassed to post questions or topics or just like to keep a low profile. The question you ask just might save a palm so lets be a lurker free zone.

Peachy

I think I know the topic that prompted your post, Peachy. And the responses to the newbie's topic involved something to the effect of a "second level snark attack" or some such thing. Frankly, this continuing outbreak of "snarkness" and "snark attacks" has gotten overdone and tiresome. If a person can't give an honest, truthful answer to someone's sincere question, statement, announcement or photos, he/she should keep his/her hands away from the keyboard.

I support you in this topic. I'm here for the palms, not to witness someone's effort to launch a career in standup comedy.

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That is quite sad that you had to wait so long before you had the confidence to ask a question. This is one of the issues I was hoping this topic might help to address. To quote Tyrone, the only stupid question is the one you should have asked. (or something along those lines.) Of course rookies ask rookie questions...thats why they are rookies. rock.gif Now to any newcomers reading this, the term 'Lurkers' is not a pejorative, its just palmtalk slang for people who are too shy or too embarrassed to post questions or topics or just like to keep a low profile. The question you ask just might save a palm so lets be a lurker free zone.

Peachy

I think I know the topic that prompted your post, Peachy. And the responses to the newbie's topic involved something to the effect of a "second level snark attack" or some such thing. Frankly, this continuing outbreak of "snarkness" and "snark attacks" has gotten overdone and tiresome. If a person can't give an honest, truthful answer to someone's sincere question, statement, announcement or photos, he/she should keep his/her hands away from the keyboard.

I support you in this topic. I'm here for the palms, not to witness someone's effort to launch a career in standup comedy.

Well said Ladies.

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Why do we have to tolerate "snarkism" "snarkasm" or anything that removes the dignity of another even in the smallest way. If you won't say it in person to someones face, don't type it. It's called being polite, and some have forgotten what it is to be polite. This is the International Palm Society and it has a dignified reputation to uphold. Treat new people like rubbish and don't expect them to come back. Also many will no longer post with this lack of decorum. I've got nothing against humour, use it as much as possible, but not at others expense.

Tyrone

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It is nice to see that I am not alone in finding this unpleasant to see happening. It wasnt just one topic that compelled me to start this thread. This has been going on for quite while on and off and combined with a few others things that got me angry (which is quite hard to do as a rule) I just thought it was time to speak out. Yes, the topic most people are alluding too was the last straw of a series of similar posts. It's about the palms, sharing the knowledge and being a society, not a clique. Old members eventually die, new ones are needed and should be nurtured.

Peachy

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I hesitate to reply here, but I guess I have to say it. Although, a few members have reached out, it can be pretty lonely out here if you are not from California, Florida, Hawaii, or some other tropical region. I realize that the small palette of palms us lower zoners can grow can be pretty boring to those in the Zone 10+ regions of the world, and as I said, some have reached out, but I see many marginal zone folks come and go here. Many are active on other cold hardy type palm boards, but too many don't seem to last long here. There are exceptions, of course, but in general it makes me sad, as this is the "International Palm Society."

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Keith, I understand what you are posting and I am always not sure how to approach the subject. While I am happy to have the "cold zone" people post and interact here, I don't even own most of the cold hardy palms, so I often don't know a good answer. I could surmise a guess, but I usually hope that a "co-zoner" can cover it.

But to a minor degree, I do the same thing. I rarely read most of the "coconut" or "lipstick" threads because I cannot easily grow these palms, yet I have plenty that I can grow and will fill my yard to overflowing. Likewise, as you can guess, I rarely read the cold hardy threads unless its a poster I know that I have enjoyed their posts in the past OR......

Kinda hard to describe because I do it kinda on the fly, but I generally look at all the "new content" and will usually skip my "non-zone related threads" UNLESS I do not recognize the poster AND I see 25-30+ views and no responses. Then I want this new person to know they are not ignored, so I will look and try to respond in some way.

Not all the time, but I give it a good effort. To that end I know some people think I post too much, I've decided I'm not hurting them, it's my time (or lack there-of) and I don't care if they don't like it. (my multi-posting)

Please return to your scheduled programming.

PS- Keith, good to see you back posting..

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Keith, I am glad you spoke up. The NZ members are in a quite a cool spot and the boys from Tasmania get really cold, as do a lot of the European members no doubt. Sometimes when I see all the delightful colder climate palms that would just frizzle at my place, I get a bit envious. I live in the subtropics officially, but unlike the other brisbane members, my suburb gets the odd winter frost and below freezing nights, so I can't grow all the exotic tropical things they can, which makes me the odd one out and it can get lonely when nobody else shares your climatic conditions. Since I joined IPS, I have spoken to some really lovely people from all over the planet, who, like me, think most palms are beautiful things no matter what zones they come from. Yes there is some palm snobbery, a lot of it is light hearted banter and a little bit is just stupid people's closed minds. Don't let them put you off posting and socialising. I am sure you have a lot of things to share and remember there are a lot of states between florida and california...with palm people in them I am sure. Now that other people have hopefully read your post maybe they would care to discuss which species they know of that do well in your zone.

Peachy

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Oh yeah, I just wanted to add a quick note to Tyrone. While I know they are not the only ones, MattyB and Pohonkelapa have the full on snark-fest here, but I find it hilarious because that IS THEY WAY THEY TALK TO EACH OTHER FACE TO FACE! :floor: When Len is around some of the snark gets splashed about and we all get hit and "splash back". :D

But you are right, snark should not be throw at newbies...it smells a bit..:blink:

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Oh yeah, I just wanted to add a quick note to Tyrone. While I know they are not the only ones, MattyB and Pohonkelapa have the full on snark-fest here, but I find it hilarious because that IS THEY WAY THEY TALK TO EACH OTHER FACE TO FACE! rofl7gpcm6.gif When Len is around some of the snark gets splashed about and we all get hit and "splash back". biggrin.gif

But you are right, snark should not be throw at newbies...it smells a bit..blink.gif

Maybe the snark could come slowly, but I love it. Actually, it is the individual personalities that keep me coming back to this board. Here, thanks especially to Ohana Nui, people can be themselves, so I feel like I know real people and not just post personalities. Bill, you have always reached out, and Paul, and Mattie, and Dave, and others. And Wal, we have a special snarky relationship, ever since you told me I should just grow conifers, lol. Bo and Dean, you continue to surprise me as well. I come here for the friends I have made, not necessarily for the tropical palm posts.

Thanks, my friends. And thanks Peachy. I enjoy your posts, even though I rarely reply. Actually, I have a love/hate relationship with this board. Everytime I think I want to say goodbye to it, someone post something that drags me back in.

To all the newbies, hang in there. You'll find it worth your while.

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keith glad youve stayed on,your input is valued by many.

not by me,but many.

oops,was that snarky? :innocent:

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Peachy - thank you for this thread! It seems that you have voiced an opinion that many have been quietly sharing.

We should show courtesy to new posters on PalmTalk. It does not take any effort. If the IPS forum is not a place for new comers to ask questions, where should they turn? This would also be in conflict with the directive and spirit of the IPS "to promote palms and desiminate information".

I find the banter and snarky comments amongst the veterans, who know each other, as entertaining and often hilarious. That is where it should remain and not directed at our new posters.

A bit of civility and thoughtfullness goes a long way! innocent.gif

Kindest regards to all,

Ron.

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I hesitate to reply here, but I guess I have to say it. Although, a few members have reached out, it can be pretty lonely out here if you are not from California, Florida, Hawaii, or some other tropical region. I realize that the small palette of palms us lower zoners can grow can be pretty boring to those in the Zone 10+ regions of the world, and as I said, some have reached out, but I see many marginal zone folks come and go here. Many are active on other cold hardy type palm boards, but too many don't seem to last long here. There are exceptions, of course, but in general it makes me sad, as this is the "International Palm Society."

Don't worry, Keith... I am from the tropical region, and sometimes I feel the same way. I think we just have to support each other...

Regards, Ari :)

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Keith, I understand what you are posting and I am always not sure how to approach the subject. While I am happy to have the "cold zone" people post and interact here, I don't even own most of the cold hardy palms, so I often don't know a good answer. I could surmise a guess, but I usually hope that a "co-zoner" can cover it.

But to a minor degree, I do the same thing. I rarely read most of the "coconut" or "lipstick" threads because I cannot easily grow these palms, yet I have plenty that I can grow and will fill my yard to overflowing. Likewise, as you can guess, I rarely read the cold hardy threads unless its a poster I know that I have enjoyed their posts in the past OR......

Kinda hard to describe because I do it kinda on the fly, but I generally look at all the "new content" and will usually skip my "non-zone related threads" UNLESS I do not recognize the poster AND I see 25-30+ views and no responses. Then I want this new person to know they are not ignored, so I will look and try to respond in some way.

Not all the time, but I give it a good effort. To that end I know some people think I post too much, I've decided I'm not hurting them, it's my time (or lack there-of) and I don't care if they don't like it. (my multi-posting)

Please return to your scheduled programming.

PS- Keith, good to see you back posting..

Bill this place would get rather boring without your good natured postings. Keep it up.

You're right, a bit of good natured ribbing is fine between those who know each other. The written word can look a lot harsher than it may be intended, so new people and those who don't understand the relationships between members may wonder what's happening. Some cultures would treat our western way of ribbing one another as total gross disrespect.

I think we need to nurture and take new people under our wings so to speak, especially when it comes to questions. I remember the first time I asked a question here and got it answered I was chuffed, and my participation grew. If I was ignored or made to look stupid, I would never have returned.

Best regards

Tyrone

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That last posting was a good approximation of the reception I had as a newcomer. I just used to read the topics that were of use to me and say nothing. My background was one that had me accustomed to dealing with cliques so I sat back, got a picture of the gurus and acolytes and the general population and saw that it was nothing that couldnt be conquered. Should it be so daunting ? Personally I don't think so. Not everyone is a battle hardened veteran of society like me. None of us would walk up to a stranger in the street and insult them, expecting a laugh. So why do it online ? Is it a covert form of cyber bullying ? Why not leave that to the adolescents ? If we all behave like adults, members of a Palm Society, not a football club, then threads like this would not even need to exist.

Peachy

Edited by peachy
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That last posting was a good approximation of the reception I had as a newcomer. I just used to read the topics that were of use to me and say nothing. My background was one that had me accustomed to dealing with cliques so I sat back, got a picture of the gurus and acolytes and the general population and saw that it was nothing that couldnt be conquered. Should it be so daunting ? Personally I don't think so. Not everyone is a battle hardened veteran of society like me. None of us would walk up to a stranger in the street and insult them, expecting a laugh. So why do it online ? Is it a covert form of cyber bullying ? Why not leave that to the adolescents ? If we all behave like adults, members of a Palm Society, not a football club, then threads like this would not even need to exist.

Peachy

Good on you Peachy :D Well said

I wanted to know how things in the Society work, so I sat in on one part of the Board of Directors meeting in Rio recently,

one of the issues that came up was that old members certainly do die :( and we need to encourage new ones and most agreed that PalmTalk was the best place to do it.

Having a joke with each other is great and what keeps many of us coming back :), besides the palm info we get, but we should all make an effort to welcome new people even if they are not IPS members, because many of the forum members go on to become members.

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Thanks Bruce. Sadly some don't seem to die soon enough.

:evil: Guess its like growing a palm, one has to be patient.

Peachy

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I've been a member of the IPS on and off for the last 25 years and I have to say that I've always, even when I was a palm newbie, found that by and large palm people are a very kind, good-natured, gregarious and well-humored group. When I was in my early twenties, I really couldn't tell the difference between Washingtonias and a few other (after enlightenment) pretty obviously different species, and the late Ron Harris--I think many of us oldies here will remember him--at that time worked at an L.A. nursery I patronized and helped me very much to "see" palms in their wondrous variety...and through him I discovered the SoCal chapter and went to a lot of really fun meetings and met many kind and friendly palm-nuts, everyone from Pauline to Ralph Velez and Don Hodel and many, many others. I don't remember a single bad apple, actually. Even though I moved away from SoCal a few years ago and haven't been to one of those meetings in a long time, I feel that the same spirit still pervades PalmTalk and I've personally only seen very considerate responses to newbies...I guess I missed the posts you reference above, Peachy.

I can tell you from personal experience that there is some very mean and aggressive back-and-forthing going on, including toward well-meaning newbies, on other boards. Though we have room for improvement, we have it pretty good overall, I should say.

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That last posting was a good approximation of the reception I had as a newcomer. I just used to read the topics that were of use to me and say nothing. My background was one that had me accustomed to dealing with cliques so I sat back, got a picture of the gurus and acolytes and the general population and saw that it was nothing that couldnt be conquered. Should it be so daunting ? Personally I don't think so. Not everyone is a battle hardened veteran of society like me. None of us would walk up to a stranger in the street and insult them, expecting a laugh. So why do it online ? Is it a covert form of cyber bullying ? Why not leave that to the adolescents ? If we all behave like adults, members of a Palm Society, not a football club, then threads like this would not even need to exist.

Peachy

I was thinking about this topic on my way to work this morning. Peachy, I had a similar experience after I first joined PalmTalk 2+ years ago. I chimed in on a topic on Ohana Nui, only to receive a pithy snark attack from another poster. Since then, I seldom post on Ohana Nui or even read its topics. It is not about palms, so why should I subject myself to "humorous" zingers for the amusement of others? Somehow, humor and snarkiness have become entwined in some people's minds. We can be humorous without being hurtful.

Perhaps I'm being too analytical, which I am prone to be, but I observe that some PalmTalkers seem unable to express any thoughts or feelings without an accompanying putdown. Maybe they are attempting to express superiority or latent anger, gain attention and praise, or keep the world at arms' length. If so, that is sad but why should newbies and those of us who also love palms be targets of people who can't connect to others? Because usually those jokes and zingers contain no info or knowledge whatsoever about palms. Being a charter member of PalmTalk doesn't give anyone the right to insult newer members. And if people think they can cover hostility with a "smiley face", i.e. a smarmy "emoticon", they are dead wrong.

I am well aware of the friendships, cliques and bonding that go on between longtime members. That's fine if they want to razz each other. I understand that and the fact that, as a girl, I'm not allowed in the treehouse. I'm here for the palms. I've made a lot of palm friends here and I'm very fond of them. But I notice that none of them include members of the "good ol' boys" cliques and networks - I'm completely shut out of those (I'm a girl, after all, so can't possibly understand). And that's fine with me.

As I mentioned in my post above, the fun and games get redundant and really TIRESOME fast. Maybe Ohana Nui should have an ongoing Snark Attack Topic. Then when a palm topic deteriorates in dueling zingers, combatants can adjourn to Ohana Nui to shoot it out. Those of us who want to discuss Palms, Other Tropicals, Weather, etc. can do so in peace.

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We can be humorous without being hurtful.

We-have-a-winner.jpg

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I understand that and the fact that, as a girl, I'm not allowed in the treehouse. I'm here for the palms. I've made a lot of palm friends here and I'm very fond of them. But I notice that none of them include members of the "good ol' boys" cliques and networks - I'm completely shut out of those (I'm a girl, after all, so can't possibly understand). And that's fine with me.

Meg,

You just do what I do - climb up in that tree house and beat the s@#t out of those bad boys! Maybe my attitude comes from being the oldest of 6 children - with 3 younger brothers that I kept in line. In my case, I kept them out of the tree house!

Having said that, I do try and be nice to people (I can be pretty snarky at times) but I also understand the different personalities. And I perservere. If I don't liek the answer - read "it was snarky" - then I will just repost or reply with another question. And as some have stated, all questions are good ones. For instance, I am still not happy with answers I've received about sun here and Hawaii and any differences. So I wll just do my own experimenting and have an answer when the question is asked by a newbie.

I don't agree with the policies on the board but since I am not on the IPS board I have to either live with them or post elsewhere - which I do. But to each his/her own. - I was even politically correct there - which I think is way overdone.

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Keith, I am glad you spoke up. The NZ members are in a quite a cool spot and the boys from Tasmania get really cold, as do a lot of the European members no doubt. ...

Peachy

as a newbie Europeen member from cool zone (I know I accumulate the defects) I would have a lot of to say about this, but I can't, I would risk to make close the thread. :badday::D

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Peachy and Meg wrote one of the most important arguments I love them!

To say it in simply words (and English):

The normal European palm grower is reading ... and reading .. and reading ... and yes, from time to time we have problems to follow. Why? The singularity of some special english phrases are ... well ... not really clear. ;)

As far as I can judge ... it is not a problem of the gender ... it is a problem of identity. Not all of us and surely not all of the women like the sarcasm of the male pendants.

But: this is - in my humble opinion - not a special problem of palmtalk, it is a generally one! That´s why I do NOT understand some restrictions of the administratives! I never identified any offense, any chat-up line.

The women here are strong, palm enthusiastics, lovely and: theirselves!

As long as we can discuss about palms and joke besides, the world goes on.

Verena

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Since I was just re-elected President of the IPS for another two years (technically almost 2.5 years), I'd like to add my opinion. I am familiar with a couple of other forums as well (not palm forums), and I have found PalmTalk to be very unique. The friendly atmosphere here, and the willingness to share information with others is pretty special. The fact that so many who post here are regular posters, who typically log on daily, and many times several times a day, adds to the feeling of this being an extended family, with members all around the world. That being said, I think it's important for new PalmTalk members to understand that the unique dynamics that exist on PalmTalk is in great part thanks to personal friendships and connections. Don't get intimidated by the very personal comments between various Forum members.

I just returned from the Biennial in Rio de Janeiro. We had about 170 participants from 18 different countries. At the Welcome Dinner, I asked all the PalmTalk members to stand up, and there were quite a few. Didn't count them, but definitely at least a couple of dozen. I had the pleasure of meeting Gileno and Alberto for the first time, and after having been in communication with them here on PalmTalk, it was great to finally meet them and spend time with them in Brazil. We actually had a special "PalmTalk" bus, with all the PalmTalk members. The social aspect of PalmTalk is something that is not often talked about, but I believe that's part of its success. And then for many of us to get together for a week during a Biennial only adds to that experience. So, signing up here on PalmTalk is often just the very first step to a pretty unique experience!

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I recall the some similar cliques when I first joined this message board - and it wasn’t just a male thing. That was about six or seven years ago when Robert was the moderator. I would post a question or some pictures from my area and there was little response to no response.

Things have gotten much warmer for new posters around here since then. I try to respond to any post that haven’t received much attention, but I don’t have as much time as I would like.

I wish the Palm Basics for Beginners sub-forum was used more. Perhaps some of the knowledgeable people could start topics there. You don’t have to be an expert, just have some wisdom to share about a particular topic.

As to the jokes, sometimes they are funny and sometime they are annoying - especially when I’m following an interesting topic and every time I check it the additional posts don’t have anything to do with the original subject. I learned a long time ago that I can’t control the world - although sometimes I still try.

I have made so many friends here and I really enjoy getting to know them better in the Ohana Nui off topic sub-forum.

Wai`anae Steve posted some wonderful hiking video that I enjoyed while drinking my morning coffee that day. I loved the topic about pets where everyone continues to post pictures of their own. Someone asked who was the youngest forum member and lots of youngsters came out of the closet. Gbrace has some great ponds. Jeff in Costa Rica recently got a new puppy. Bo opened a hamburger joint on the big island (not) and has taught us more than I thought I wanted to know about airplanes. MattyB has a veggie garden. I stared a topic about the Saints in October and then they won the super bowl! Zeeth added a palm topic in Wikipedia. John in Andalucia documented Rocky the Swift learning to fly. Kim made pizza on Christmas Eve. Palmarati pointed out that Louisiana is the happiest state in the country. BSman learned about king cakes and lagniappe.

We could discuss more controversial subjects if everyone was mature enough, but that’s not likely. The discussions quickly turn to arguments and personal attacks.

I like these perspective topics to get people talking about what’s important to each of us so that we can respect our differences.

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For instance, I am still not happy with answers I've received about sun here and Hawaii and any differences. So I wll just do my own experimenting and have an answer when the question is asked by a newbie.

Now that we are for the most part all warm and fuzzy (a good thing) I'll tell you Kitty, what I have observed/read? about the above bit.

I have pored over pictures, and posts and personal observations (admittedly only from the Florida end) But the "sun" issue is not bad at either place due to humidity. It seems to be the overnight temps Hawaii is regularly quite a bit cooler overnight in the summer than Florida.

BS Man's 1 cent worth of info.

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Oprah would be so happy.

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If Oprah becomes a newcomer to this site, then I certainly hope she is happy too. As all newcomers should be.

Peachy

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Since I was just re-elected President of the IPS for another two years (technically almost 2.5 years), I'd like to add my opinion. I am familiar with a couple of other forums as well (not palm forums), and I have found PalmTalk to be very unique. The friendly atmosphere here, and the willingness to share information with others is pretty special. The fact that so many who post here are regular posters, who typically log on daily, and many times several times a day, adds to the feeling of this being an extended family, with members all around the world. That being said, I think it's important for new PalmTalk members to understand that the unique dynamics that exist on PalmTalk is in great part thanks to personal friendships and connections. Don't get intimidated by the very personal comments between various Forum members...

that's exactly why i'm here, for this "extended family" who, like in all famillies have ups and downs.

If I would get answers on Trachycarpus, Jubaea, Chamaerops and other cold palm I would post on North European forum. Here I dream about exotism, beautiful travels, rare seeds I had never seen yet (thanks Jim) that why I LIKE palmtalk.

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I can't add very much to what already has been said, but I can say this for sure, if I had a treehouse in the garden, it still wouldn't be big enough for all the lovely ladies here on Palm Talk. :D ( I hope Andrea understands,lol!)

Even though I get quite a few pm's asking me questions, I will be the first to admit that I should do more in helping and answering with some of the newbie's questions. I can't help much with cold hardy hybrids and cold hardy palms in general, but I should do more with what I DO KNOW.

Peachy, thanks for the eye opener.

Jeff

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That´s why I do NOT understand some restrictions of the administratives! I never identified any offense, any chat-up line.

Verena

The reason you "never identified any offense" Verena is because any offense is promptly removed, or in PMs that you never see.

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I had a funny example of the perceived cique-eeness of this board, a couple years ago I posted a thread of a garden with a lot of great pictures that went completely ignored only to have one of the more prominent members post a thread on the same garden about a week later with fewer and lower quality :winkie: ( <---notice winkie emoticon) pics get immediate comments. I laughed my tail off (after I got done crying in a dark room :mrlooney: ).

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Hhmm... I thought that only happened to me, Matt :).

Actually, I have talked to some members, and they all share the same sentiment... Some of them think... why bother posting, if you don't get a respond. I just don't care anymore. I have a few good friends in the forum who I know want to see my pics, so I post for them. If any other reply to my post, it is a bonus... and eventually, more people actually reply to my post... maybe they are warming up to me?? So, like anything... if you persist, something will come out of it.

It would help though... for new members to feel welcome. They might not be as persistent as me... :winkie:

Regards, Ari :)

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For instance, I am still not happy with answers I've received about sun here and Hawaii and any differences. So I wll just do my own experimenting and have an answer when the question is asked by a newbie.

Now that we are for the most part all warm and fuzzy (a good thing) I'll tell you Kitty, what I have observed/read? about the above bit.

I have pored over pictures, and posts and personal observations (admittedly only from the Florida end) But the "sun" issue is not bad at either place due to humidity. It seems to be the overnight temps Hawaii is regularly quite a bit cooler overnight in the summer than Florida.

BS Man's 1 cent worth of info.

On the issue of differences between Florida and Hawaii, you need to understand their geographic locations. Florida has the Gulf Stream running past so that the warm water helps keep air temperature up, especially overnight. Hawaii is at the end of the California Current and so is surrounded by cold water. Thus you have the reverse effect. Add to that, Hawaii is an island (chain of islands) situated just within the tropics, so that the sea stops the air temperature from dropping too much. Florida is at the end of a continental land mass extending to the Arctic. Winds passing over the continent don't get moderated as they would if passing over water. Hence the frequent freezing that you don't get in Hawaii. On top of that, Hawaii is in the tropics and gets the sun direct over head meaning that the sun is stronger than in Florida which isn't in the tropics and has a less intense sun. In Florida it's important which direction the wind comes from. In Hawaii the wind always comes from over the sea, no matter which direction.

On the actual topic. I also noticed there was a strong clique-ness here and I was nearly ready to throw the towel in but decided, stuff it. And like Ari I've kept at it in the belief that someone might eventually respond, even if only to tell me to shut up. It takes more than just sending me to Coventry to get rid of me. biggrin.gif

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I have found this to be a friendly forum, and responses have been mostly helpful and sincere. I do notice the 'snarkiness' among long time posters, and I don't mind it. I don't expect to be a part of any cliques here until I'm at least 'trunking'. That may be several years away.

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