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Dypsis canaliculata


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#1 Ntheastpalms

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 03:14 AM

Hello fellow Dypsis nuts
I have a palm that was purchased under the name of Dypsis canaliculata & I have been wondering if this palm is a form of Dypsis pretoniana as has been whispered by a couple of fellow palm growers?.
I have a Dypsis pretoniana planted as well & I must say that the palms look nothing alike & the D canaliculata is much faster growing, the palm pictured was planted 20 months ago out of an 8 inch pot & it is now higher than the 1.8 metre fence behind it. Where as the D prestoniana is only about 1 metre tall in about the same growing time in the ground.
Leaf colour & arrangement is also quite different.
Here is a couple of photos of both plants, let me know what you think
Dypsis canaliculata
Posted Image

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#2 Ntheastpalms

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 03:17 AM

and here is the Dypsis prestoniana
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#3 Daryl

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 03:40 AM

Wow Matt, that is GROWING!



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#4 BS Man about Palms

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 06:54 AM

Matt-

First off, you have a PERFECT example of what some of us here have deemed the "Hedyscepe complex". Thats where some examples of Hedys (or large Dypsis) are ROCKETS, while others grow average, or barely at all. Under normal conditions, I have found the 2 you mentioned to be close to equal in speed.
So my guess is you have the rocket D. cana. and a slow D. presto.


That being said, I think they are 2 different species, the D. cana. being laden with tomentum.

But then again, I think D. bejofa and D. bejouf are 2 different species...:rolleyes: (Ryan..?)


Looking awesome by the way!
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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

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#5 BS Man about Palms

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 06:58 AM

By the way, it should be ready for more sun now... lest your petioles start bending..
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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#6 LJG

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 10:23 AM

Hi Matt,

They sure are pretty similar. They grow about the same speed. Dypsis canaliculata version has skinnier leaflets, darker petioles and the newest emerging spear has a red color with brown tomentum once it is more then 1/2 way out of the growing point. D prestoniana/Big Curly seems to have a little fatter leaflets, no tomentum and green petioles and the newest spear emerging is white/yellow/lime in color with no tomentum. Have you noticed this?
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#7 Ntheastpalms

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 01:23 PM

G'Day Bill
Thanks for your input. The shade cloth will come off in September, I dont want any winter damage.

Hi Len
I have noticed the difference between both plants as you have mentioned which is why I think that they will turn out to be two different species. But time will tell I guess & lets not forget that large Dypsis do change a LOT as they grow & mature.

G'Day Daryl
This palm is really growing fast for a big Dypsis.
I was settled in for the one leaf a year game that a lot of these big Dypsis sp play but I am really pleased with its progress.
I reckon I'll have to try & get a couple more for the bottom section of garden when I start on it in spring.
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#8 Walter John

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 02:22 PM

What a monster ! You better run for it when you let him out in Spring.. :D
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Wal
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#9 Tyrone

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 03:34 PM

Matt, I too purchased a D canaliculata as a one leaf seedling back in 04. It's now 1.2m above the pot and looks identical to your plant. I just potted it up to a 30L this summer. I'm beginning to wonder if it is D prestoniana but I only have smaller ones of them to compare with. I too have been impressed with its speed of growth especially in the last couple of years. Looking at your pictures I think this may be a different species but only time will tell. Yours looks awesome.

Best regards

Tyrone
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It rains 6 months of the year and the other 6 months it continues dripping off the trees. 

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#10 Ntheastpalms

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 03:50 PM

Hey Wal
Yeah I'll have to stay alert to avoid the wrath of the killer Dypsis :D :D

G'Day Tyrone
Thanks for the kind words & input.
I just feel that this plant is a little too different to be the same as D prestoniana that I have purchased as the real species (supposedly).
I have about 6 or 7 little one leaf seedlings of D prestoniana & in time I'll see if they develope the same or differently to the both the palms pictured.
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#11 Tyrone

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 03:56 PM

Hey Wal
Yeah I'll have to stay alert to avoid the wrath of the killer Dypsis :D :D

G'Day Tyrone
Thanks for the kind words & input.
I just feel that this plant is a little too different to be the same as D prestoniana that I have purchased as the real species (supposedly).
I have about 6 or 7 little one leaf seedlings of D prestoniana & in time I'll see if they develope the same or differently to the both the palms pictured.

We'll compare notes. I have just over a dozen D prestoniana's from various seed batches growing to compare with. I should plant my canaliculata next spring, but I have no room in the back yard and it will have to go into my yet to be constructed front courtyard. I hope it will sunharden up OK. I may have to put a shadecloth cover over it to begin with like you have.

Best regards

Tyrone
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Millbrook, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Winter 8C to 16C min/max, Summer 15C to 24C min/max. Approx 850mm rainfall with a winter peak. Driest month Feb with 25mm. 9km (5miles) from Southern Ocean. 6km (3.5miles) from Oyster Harbour. 13m asl. 1/3 clay, 2/3 peat soil on a flood plain.

 

It rains 6 months of the year and the other 6 months it continues dripping off the trees. 

The Tropical Look


#12 Moose

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 04:03 PM

I have one of each. I think that Dypsis prestoniana looks more like Dypsis robusta. Dypsis canaliculata looks simular but is definitely distinct in my opinion. I got the Dypsis prestoniana & canaliculata from Jeff Searle. The Dypsis robusta was from Claude Roatta.

By the way, Bill (BS Man about Palms) is 100% correct on the spears curving over in too much shade. It happened to me with the D. prestoniana. Good advice Bill!

I can't wait to see these bad boys get a trunk!!! Posted Image

Ron.






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#13 Walter John

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 04:28 PM

I have one of each. I think that Dypsis prestoniana looks more like Dypsis robusta. Dypsis canaliculata looks simular but is definitely distinct in my opinion. I got the Dypsis prestoniana & canaliculata from Jeff Searle. The Dypsis robusta was from Claude Roatta.

By the way, Bill (BS Man about Palms) is 100% correct on the spears curving over in too much shade. It happened to me with the D. prestoniana. Good advice Bill!

I can't wait to see these bad boys get a trunk!!! Posted Image

Ron.


Funny Ron, I was thinking the same thing, the prestonian looks like a robusta. It's about the leaflets.
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Wal
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#14 edric

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 04:15 PM

I have one of each too, I kinda thought the one that they say is a D. canaliculata, looks like a D. tokoravina, as far as the fronds go anyhow, does anyone have any photos of young D. tokoravina? thanks, Ed
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#15 edric

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 04:58 PM

HI all, just thought you might like to read this, the description says D. canaliculata has no petiole, mine looks just like matts, it has a petiole, Ed

http://palmweb.org/?...ad-1379686be1bf
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#16 edric

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 12:49 PM

HI all, just thought you might like to read this, the description says D. canaliculata has no petiole, mine looks just like matts, it has a petiole, Ed

http://palmweb.org/?...ad-1379686be1bf

Does anyone have one with no petiole? Ed
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#17 Tyrone

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 04:14 PM

HI all, just thought you might like to read this, the description says D. canaliculata has no petiole, mine looks just like matts, it has a petiole, Ed

http://palmweb.org/?...ad-1379686be1bf

When I ordered my palm which was labeled as D canaliculata many years back I almost was certain that it was not the real D canaliculata as it had not been seen since mid last century and the place it grew has no forest left. But I ordered it because it could be something special and in my eyes it is, whatever it is. Also the descriptions in the POM are for mature palms. Seedlings can take on many looks before they mature.

Best regards

Tyrone
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Millbrook, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Winter 8C to 16C min/max, Summer 15C to 24C min/max. Approx 850mm rainfall with a winter peak. Driest month Feb with 25mm. 9km (5miles) from Southern Ocean. 6km (3.5miles) from Oyster Harbour. 13m asl. 1/3 clay, 2/3 peat soil on a flood plain.

 

It rains 6 months of the year and the other 6 months it continues dripping off the trees. 

The Tropical Look


#18 edric

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 04:18 PM


HI all, just thought you might like to read this, the description says D. canaliculata has no petiole, mine looks just like matts, it has a petiole, Ed

http://palmweb.org/?...ad-1379686be1bf

Does anyone have one with no petiole? Ed


Is it possible that the info is not correct, I believe it's from Dransfield, click on the link, and under discussion, and also under description, he says in both, that the petiole is absent in this palm, Ed
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#19 BS Man about Palms

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 07:10 PM

Ed- I noticed in one of your recent links that Dypsis canaliculata was also referred to by the locals as "Monimony" which was a type of Dypsis/seed that came thru a while back. I have one, but it doesn't look very different. Also the latest is that palm is the same as "Jurassic Park". Follow all that? :unsure::rolleyes:
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#20 Walter John

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 07:32 PM

Ed- I noticed in one of your recent links that Dypsis canaliculata was also referred to by the locals as "Monimony" which was a type of Dypsis/seed that came thru a while back. I have one, but it doesn't look very different. Also the latest is that palm is the same as "Jurassic Park". Follow all that? :unsure::rolleyes:


Like this one Bill ? poor thing's variegated as well as nameless.

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daishs jurassic variegated.JPG
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Happy Gardening
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Wal
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#21 edric

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:06 AM

Thanks Bill, Well I guess we can stop calling it canaliculatta, when we find a palm meeting that description, one absent of any petiole, does anyone know what a juvenile D. tokoravina looks like? cause that's what I think it is, Ed
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#22 edric

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 02:08 AM


Ed- I noticed in one of your recent links that Dypsis canaliculata was also referred to by the locals as "Monimony" which was a type of Dypsis/seed that came thru a while back. I have one, but it doesn't look very different. Also the latest is that palm is the same as "Jurassic Park". Follow all that? :unsure::rolleyes:


Like this one Bill ? poor thing's variegated as well as nameless.

Posted Image

daishs jurassic variegated.JPG

Not the same palm, I don't think, ED
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#23 BS Man about Palms

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 05:20 AM

I think Wals pic is of D. tokoravina.
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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#24 peachy

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 08:52 AM

I think I have a D.canaliculata somewhere in the seedling/younger palm pile. I was ambivilent about it before but now I want to see how it turns out. I gave all the D.robustas away. (after paying way too much for them as seedlings) I don't have the patience to sit through another 12 months of looking at miniscule palms and hoping that one day they will grow enough to make it obvious that something is happening. I planted my biggest D. carlsmithii this season and it put up 3 spears in that time. The one still in the pot performed about the same. I am yet to find a decent sized D.prestoniana and have no intention of going through the robusta debacle again with another species. Actually I am starting to think about avoiding dypsis altogether until they get their act together with the nomenclature. After seeing a photo of D.ambositrae, I fell in love, went out and bought 3. These grew like weeds, very pleasing, until they became known as sp. fine leaf. I then bought a 'true ambositrae' and a wild form ambositrae.(on the same day) Both of those are just sitting there contemplating their navels instead of growing also. I still dont know what the specimens in the photos actually were. The D.pink crownshaft are a good performer here, more than doubled in size once planted. (about 7 months ago) My D. bejofo seeds were all duds I think. Been nearly 6 months now and no sign of them doing anything. :angry:
Peachy on an anti dypsis tirade.
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#25 Ntheastpalms

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:01 PM

Hi Ed
My palm has a very short petiole But it is very difficult to get a clear photo of said area.
BS Man, I wasn't going to say anything but I think that my plant & others that were labled as D canaliculata will turn out to be D tokoravina.
We will see in time.
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#26 Moose

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:33 PM

I have what was sold to me as Dypsis canaliculata and Dypsis tokoravina and appear very distinct. My Dypsis tokoravina resembles a Dypsis Carlsmithii more than a Dypsis canaliculata or a Dypsis prestoniana in my opinion. Posted Image
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#27 BS Man about Palms

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:39 PM

Sorry to hear you are anti-Dypsis lately Peachy... Hey, POM listed 140 species of Dypsis....there's bound to be confusion and new ones added. :D
But a big one like this Big Curley/prestoniana? at Mardys today shows the wait is worth it. The Lenster in the pic.

Mardy-5-5-10 006.jpg
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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#28 Ntheastpalms

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:43 PM

Great photo Bill.
I totally agree with you, these big Dypsis are certainly worth the wait.
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#29 BS Man about Palms

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:43 PM

Matt-Moose-
The Dypsis tokoravina looks very different at an early age...much thinner leaves and in grouped spacing. Moose, you've seen them at Jeff's.. :)

This is a young/ old (12+ year old) plant.

mybetafaka 002.jpg mybetafaka 003.jpg

I should add the more sun these see, the spacing tends to compact.
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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#30 BS Man about Palms

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 10:53 PM

Sorry- A quick reread of Moose's post brings up something. A LOT of palms have come in been sold over the past couple years as Dypsis tokoravina, overwhelmingly these have turned out to be D. carlsmithii.

The reason I listed Wal's pic in #20 as D. tokoravina is it is an exact match (except that cool variegation! :drool: ) to the palm that John Dransfield recently ID'd in Hawaii at Floribunda as D. tokoravina.

Peachy- did the water just get muddy again?
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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#31 peachy

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:16 AM

Sorry- A quick reread of Moose's post brings up something. A LOT of palms have come in been sold over the past couple years as Dypsis tokoravina, overwhelmingly these have turned out to be D. carlsmithii.

The reason I listed Wal's pic in #20 as D. tokoravina is it is an exact match (except that cool variegation! :drool: ) to the palm that John Dransfield recently ID'd in Hawaii at Floribunda as D. tokoravina.

Peachy- did the water just get muddy again?


I am finding Arengas so attractive lately.
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#32 edric

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 02:25 AM

If I knew what it was, or if it wasn't rare or endangered, I would barely be interested, but once again, you guys don't know how much I appreciate your input, Thanks, Ed P.S. I think what has happened, is that in nature D. tokoravina has crossed with D. canaliculata way back when, like it says, D. canaliculata hasn't been seen since 1951, however there may be some that still have the absent petiole, Ntheastpalms tree is mighty close to having no petiole, and he is in AU, where there may be some nearly pure D. canaliculata. Bill, I agree that 12+ year old palm in the photo you just posted, has the spacing way too far apart, to be the same palm as Ntheastpalms tree, even mine at about 4 years old has the spacing much closer together, and it doesn't seem like there is much red-brown color in the new rachis of the nearly pure D. tokoravina, Ed
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#33 ariscott

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 02:49 AM

Sorry to hear you are anti-Dypsis lately Peachy... Hey, POM listed 140 species of Dypsis....there's bound to be confusion and new ones added. :D
But a big one like this Big Curley/prestoniana? at Mardys today shows the wait is worth it. The Lenster in the pic.

Mardy-5-5-10 006.jpg


I am sorry BS... I think I have to agree more with Peachy in this subjects. This 'big' dypsis are just so annoyingly slow... I am used to palms that leap and bound after their first year in the ground... In that matter, I am falling in love with my Hydrastele (gulubia) costata all over again. They are SO FAST and so beautiful!! Maybe I just don't have the patient... I have a few dypsis now and they are now being shaded with everything else around them that grows WAY faster...

Regards, Ari :)

Edited by ariscott, 06 May 2010 - 02:49 AM.

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#34 edric

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 03:05 AM

Good things seldom come easy!
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#35 BS Man about Palms

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 09:45 PM

I planted my Dypsis canaliculata from Floribunda via Clark earlier this year. It has since thrown TWO leaves and has a spear of over 8" already moving! Thats FAST for what should prove to be a big Dypsis!

pyrican9-10 004.jpg
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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#36 BS Man about Palms

BS Man about Palms

    This TVR is trapped in my garage by PALMS!

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 09:51 PM

But as Matt noted, there is a lot of color and tomentum on these. Whereas my Big curley /prestoniana? is always green.

Mine is looking pretty colorful in full coastal So Cal sun.

pyrican9-10 003.jpg
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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

#37 Moose

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 02:27 AM

My Dypsis canaliculata is lacking petioles at this stage. It just had two spear leaves open up nearly at the same time. Looking where they emerged, the appear remote from one another. It will be interesting if this palm splits developing twin trunks? :unsure:

The Dypsis prestoniana I am growing seems to be a much slower. It was grown in too much shade in the container and was "stretched". It was planted as a seven gallon size in more sun and has the third spear emerging right now. Next growing season will tell about its speed as I am sure much energy was devoted to root development and acclimation when planted.

Viewing these palms in my yard, they definitely appear to be distinct species, or at least cultivars.

On to the Dypsis Carlsmithii and Dypsis tokoravina debate. I am growing both. As Bill said, the tokoravina has finer leaves. My observation is the Dypsis tokoravina is much faster than my Dypsis Carlsmithii. Both were planted as three gallon size, The carlsmithii had a two year advantage of being in the ground. The tokoravina has nearly caught up to the carlsmithii in one season. I will need to revisit this next summer to see if this is holding true .Once again I feel they are distinct Did the seed source have a mix of species? Is it a matter of luck what you have? :unsure:

Now lets throw another Dypsis into the mix. My Dypsis robusta planted as a three gallon has been pretty slow for me after being in the ground for one year. It is extremely difficult to compare with California grown palms since the conditions are vastly different.

On a sad note, my Dypsis pilulifera was looking a bit chlorotic. A gentle tug on the spear and it pulled readily. I got two years invested in this palm and it has been slow for me. I am not very hopeful that it will survive. :crying:

Mooseland Dypsis report is over. :innocent:
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Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

#38 ariscott

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 02:59 AM

I have a palm that similar looking to Matt's. I think Daryl did say it might be D. canaliculata. I have to say compared to the other big dypsis... it is quite fast. If I have time on the weekend (as I have to go to work for one day), I will take photos and BS can compare...

Regards, Ari :)
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Ari & Scott

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#39 Ntheastpalms

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 03:09 AM

Looking good Bill.

Bad news about the D pilulifera Moose I hope it pulls through for you.
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#40 BS Man about Palms

BS Man about Palms

    This TVR is trapped in my garage by PALMS!

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 06:43 AM

On to the Dypsis Carlsmithii and Dypsis tokoravina debate. I am growing both. As Bill said, the tokoravina has finer leaves. My observation is the Dypsis tokoravina is much faster than my Dypsis Carlsmithii. Both were planted as three gallon size, The carlsmithii had a two year advantage of being in the ground. The tokoravina has nearly caught up to the carlsmithii in one season. I will need to revisit this next summer to see if this is holding true .Once again I feel they are distinct Did the seed source have a mix of species? Is it a matter of luck what you have? :unsure:



Mooseland Dypsis report is over. :innocent:


I should address the D. tokoravina issue more. I am CONVINCED that the only "real" toko's are old plants like Jeff Searles or the one Wal posted OR what maybe? came in as "Jurrasic park" somewhat recently.

Almost without exception the "in between era" toko's are carlsmithii or a version thereof.

A TRUE toko. would have grouped, plumose, leaflets once the leaves are 18" or more longer. If what anyone has are leaflets on a regular plane, its probably carlsmithii.


Any and all pictures welcome.

And yes, I suspect there has been intended or inadvertant seed mixing over the years...
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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."
"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."
-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-




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