Palms and Cycads

[Phil]

Hi Group,

It's been quite a while since I posted an ad. This is to let you know we have a lot of desirable things for sale. As most of you know we have about 800 species of palms and cycads in a whole assortement of sizes, little to big. We're in Enciinitas, just minutes off the Freeway 5. We're open Monday through Saturday. Hours are 10AM to 3PM during the week and til 4:00 PM on Saturdays. New things are continually available.

For you cycad guys, we're getting in a private consignment of E. latifrons, dyerianus, giant cupidus, "false" woodii and eventually a real woodii. Contact me privately about these things. Right now we have big Chambeyronia, Burretiokentia and lots of nice Dypsis. All prices are at our website.

Hope to see you soon.

Phil

619 291 4605

Directions

Take Freeway 5 to Encinitas, (10 minutes south of Oceanside,

30 minutes north of San Diego). Exit Leucadia Blvd West (toward ocean).

Immediate left on Orpheus Ave,m left on Union St,

Right on Oceanview Ave to 450 Oceanview.

[DippyD]

Hi Phil,

What does a "false" woodii consist of? when will you be getting these plants in?

[Ampli]

Hi Phil,

What does a "false" woodii consist of? when will you be getting these plants in?

Probably it's a hybrid with a female of E. Natalensis

[DippyD]

Interesting, well how big are the latifronds you are getting and how much do they cost as well as a "true" woodii?

[Phil]

Matt,

You'd have to talk with Loran about the true story of the "false woodii". As I heard it many years ago, it was hoped to be the "lost colony" of woodii. That proved not to be the case. I've only seen a few plants in my career. It is probably equally as rare as true woodii. The plant I told you I'd be getting sold within an hour of its arrival.

I do have photos of the same species. But, this was a unique one and did not show the spines. Unfortunately, these photos don't show the beauty of this plant. But, I'll post them here.

Phil

[Phil]

I thought I'd also show another unique plant: Dioon argentium. It is also very rare. I haven't figured out how to add photos within the text yet, so they'll be clumped below.

Phil

[Phil]

Below are some photos of the latifrons I hope to be getting in. It's a trapps valley form. As you can see, it's still in a garden.

Phil

[Phil]

Bummer, this new photo system has limits as to what one can do. It's not a "publishing" type format at all. I's going to be tough to tell a story with photographs. But, if it's gtood enough for Craigs List, then I guess we'll have to put up with it here.

Phil

[DippyD]

how much would a latifronds that size go for phil? ive been looking for one about this size.

[ixigena]

Matt,

You'd have to talk with Loran about the true story of the "false woodii". As I heard it many years ago, it was hoped to be the "lost colony" of woodii. That proved not to be the case. I've only seen a few plants in my career. It is probably equally as rare as true woodii. The plant I told you I'd be getting sold within an hour of its arrival.

I do have photos of the same species. But, this was a unique one and did not show the spines. Unfortunately, these photos don't show the beauty of this plant. But, I'll post them here.

Phil

Phil,

Looks very beautiful to me

[Phil]

how much would a latifronds that size go for phil? ive been looking for one about this size.

Palmfreak,

I don't have a price on this one as of yet. It's not at the nursery, as you can tell. But, I'm always shocked at what people want for them.

I thought I'd show a few pics of the hybrid called Encephalartos "Horwood". This is a horridus female with male pollen from the woodii. Interesting, huh. I'm not a huge fan of hybrids, but can see the interest and beauty when you get a nice cross.

Also, for those guys who live in the cold, I've got a few very nice 5g T. wagnerianus. They have about 9 inches of trunk.

Phil

[MattyB]

I'm a newbie at the Cycads so I'll just sit back, watch and learn. But I got one of those 5 gal T. wagerianus last year, put it in a 15 gal, set it out in full sun and forgot about it. It looks perfect! Summer, Winter, it dosen't care what you throw at it. I don't care what Shon says, this is a great little palm. Lot's of people ask me what it is because I guess they've got some T. wagnerianus that aren't this compact looking. These are a nice batch.

[Phil]

Good Morning,

I thought I'd show a few more pics you don't see very often.

First are two photos of Encephalartos dolomiticus, a Transvaal species from RSA.

The third and fourth photos are Encephalartos giant cupidus, aka E. nubimontanus, robust form. It likewise is a Transvaal species from South Africa.

The fifth and sixth photos are Encephalartos munchii. This species has variable color from green to blue. This one is sort of a "blue-green". It's from Central Africa.

Phil

[BS Man about Palms]

Phil, Thanks for posting the pics of those rare beauties. Improves all our knowledge bases!

[Phil]

More,

First is the crown of Dypsis plumosa. It's about 8 feet tall.

The second shot is Louis Hooper's Rhapis humilus X laoensis.

The third is Chuniophoenix nana from China. The amazing thing about this species is that it only gets about 3, perhaps 4 feet tall. We have one at the nursery that has lots of red, marble-sized fruit handing on mulitple brachts.

Phil

[tropicalb]

Bummer, this new photo system has limits as to what one can do. It's not a "publishing" type format at all. I's going to be tough to tell a story with photographs. But, if it's gtood enough for Craigs List, then I guess we'll have to put up with it here.

Phil

Phil...you can actually post the same way you did before....but to do it unfortunately you will now have to:

1. host your own images somewhere

2. "insert" images instead of "attaching" them to the post

it's kind of a lot of extra effort though just to be able to put descriptions immediately above or below the pics....

[Phil]

Thanks Burt,

I'll give it try next time.

Phil

[Shon]

I'm a newbie at the Cycads so I'll just sit back, watch and learn. But I got one of those 5 gal T. wagerianus last year, put it in a 15 gal, set it out in full sun and forgot about it. It looks perfect! Summer, Winter, it dosen't care what you throw at it. I don't care what Shon says, this is a great little palm. Lot's of people ask me what it is because I guess they've got some T. wagnerianus that aren't this compact looking. These are a nice batch.

I would'nt even put that palm in Bill's yard.

[BS Man about Palms]

[Phil]

Here we go again: palm snobbery. I understand it but don't agree. The wagnerianus are cute, you have to agree.

Gaussia attenuata

Gaussia maya in a box

Phil

[Phil]

Beccariophoenix madagascarensis. Have up to boxed size

Beccariophoenix no windows, have up to 15g plants. This one is a 5g.

Cycas wadei palawan, not a bad species for So Cal

Phil

[MattyB]

Enjoying the thread Phil. Can you post some Dioons? I like them now.

[Phil]

MattyB,

Good to hear that you like Dioons. I think they are very cool as well. Most are pretty cold hardy, they take heat and sun, and don't take up too much space.

I like to approach Dioons in terms of groups, or "complexes", to understand and remember them. There is the "Dioon edule complex", the "Dioon spinulosum complex", the "Dioon purpusii complex", and the "Dioon merolae" group. There are not too many Dioon species, so it makes it easier to remember them all. This is something I do, but is not something you'd see in references or a book that I know of.

The purpusii group above would contain D. purpusii, D. calafanoi, and I would also include the Dioon argenteum. They have spiney leaflets, not too wide of leaflets, and are keeled to some extent,

I mentioned Dioon argenteum above. This species was discovered after Loran published his book, so you'll have to go to the literature to read more about it. It is unbelievably rare. I've only had a few plants in my career. The way you spot this species is by the wooly, whispey silver substance attached to the back of the leaflets. Once you see this stuff, you'll be able to recognize it. Look at picture number one below. Remember that the latin derivation for "argent" is "silver", the color of the wooly tomentum. It almost looks like old cobwebs on the leaves.

Dioon califanoi is a species that I've come to appreciate and admire more and more over time. It has this peculiar appearance that is quite alluring. I would consider califanoi and purpusii to be the "fishbone" types of cycads. Look at photo number 2 below. Either you like it or you don't.

Dioon purpusii is always a hard to find and sought-after species. It has keeled, thin leaves with spines on the leaflets. It looks a bit different than califanoi. See the third photo below.

Phil

Phil

[MattyB]

Thanks Phil. I like that they'll take full inland sun and not burn like some of the green Encephelartos.

[Phil]

Group,

First a few more pics of the silver tomentum on the D. argenteum. You can see it on the front of the leaflets (1st photo) and on the back (second photo).

Now on to the next complex, that of Dioon spinulosum. This would include D. spinulosum, mejiae, and rzedowskii. The 3rd photo shows a 5 yo plant, the 4th a 15 yo plant, and the 5th photo the leaflets. Note they are somewhat spiney, but not overly so. This will be important to tell it from the other species of this group. Also important, the leaflets hold less spines as the plant ages. Thus, a younger plant shows more spines on the leaflets, a very old plant fewer spines. The leaflet shot here is on the previous plant. On the younger plant you'd see more spines.

In the next post I'll talk about D. mejiae and rzedowskii.

Phil

[Phil]

Dioon mejiae has a few unique characteristics. First, the leaflets are not very spiney at all. They are not totally without spines, but they are rare, especially as the plant gets bigger. Also, the newly emerging leaves are covered with soft tan colored tomentum. They are real fun to feel, but are fragile and can snap. The caudex is also like felt, sort of like the Teddy Bear Palm. See pictures 1-3 below. Also note that the leaves emerge more vertically with mejiae compared to the other two. Everyone who has a Dioon mejiae knows about the fuzzy new emerging leaves, especially before they fully open. They are soft and gentle.

Dioon rzedowskii is a rarer species. See the first photo below. You can see how it's part of this group. It sort of looks like a spinulosum, but there are differences. First, The caudex is a bit more like the mejiae, furry. Also, the leaf spines are more prominenent and held at a bit more of an angle from the leaflet. They sometimes are more of a yellow color as well. See photos below.

More tomorrow.

Phil

[DippyD]

Phil,

These are some nice plants but none of them have any prices. this is a for sale thread and require pictures and prices. You advertised a latifronds and you don't even have possession of the plant. Maybe these threads would be better in the discussing palms or other tropical plants. seems like there are a few cycad threads in there where people show off what they have.

[gsn]

Phil,

As always an interesting and informative educational thread!

Phil,

These are some nice plants but none of them have any prices. this is a for sale thread and require pictures and prices. You advertised a latifronds and you don't even have possession of the plant. Maybe these threads would be better in the discussing palms or other tropical plants. seems like there are a few cycad threads in there where people show off what they have.

This from a man who doesn't even have the courtesy of answering a long standing complaint in his own thread in Palm Grower Ratings... You obviously never had possession of a FOXYLADY, or if you did, you simply ripped this guy off and refused to ship it,after it had already been paid for!

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21154

Edited March 19, 2010 by gsn

[DippyD]

Yes however i had a picture and a price

[freakypalmguy]

Here's the actual rule, Phil is well within these guidlines.

"For larger venues or sales, such as nurseries, a link to a price list or a promise of listed prices "at the door" are required"

[Phil]

Dear Palmfreek (Sorry, I don't know you name, it's not at your profile),

I understand your point and apologize that I don't just mention what I have with a price. But, I've never really been a "here they are, come and getum" type guy. My posts for years here have been more about education than selling plants. I get satisfaction out of talking about the species and telling stories/showing pictures. I've done this for many years here. Sure, it's nice if people drop by the nursery. But, this forum is all about education. If I posted one of my threads at the "Discussing Palms" section, I am sure that there would be those that would say it should be in the "Palms for Sale" section. So, here I stay, posting a thread every few months. I've discussed this at length with various Forum Moderators over the years, Dean in the past few years. And, Matt is correct, my threads do follow the rules. Re the latifrons, I actually was in the process of obtaining it to sell when the seller got cold feet. Too bad as someone from this group made a very reasonable offer. It still might appear here depending on the sellers circumstances. We'll know soon.

Everyone has his own style, all of us do. When you sell a plant, do it your way. I'll probably keep doing it as I always have. It's just more my style.

Best regards,

Phil

[Phil]

Now, back to what we were talking about.

The third group or complex is the Dioon Edule complex. If you look at it in a simple way, this is very easy to understand. There is "Dioon edule variety edule" and "Dioon edule variety angustifolium". But, as most growers recognize, there are a lot of other varieties that look different. Loran mentions in his book quite a few of these other varieties and says some day taxonomists may start naming some new species.

Dioon edule variety edule is a slow growing cycad that, in a few hundred years, may get up to a height of ten feet. The largest one I've ever had for sale is 2 feet and I think it was about 50 years old. A one foot plant could be 20 years old. The crowns are rather small, perhaps 3 to 4 feet across. The leaflets are fairly narrow, but not as narrow as the angustifolium (below). The caudex is never too fat in cultivation, typically 12 inches or so wide. The trunk scales are tight and the leaf color is usually green or a gray-green. The first photo shows a containerized specimen of Dioon edule var. edule. The second shows a female blossom. The third shows leaflets of a different and smaller plant. Note the width of the leaflets.

Dioon angustifolium typically has a shorter trunk at maturity. But, the main difference is the very thin leaflets. This is the most striking thing about this species. Sometimes they look like needles protrubing from the petiole. Look at the next three photos. The last one shows a specimen that is suckering. I've seen this frequently with angustifolium.

I hope that these photos get large enough so you can really see the characteristics of the leaves and leaflets. Tomorrow I'll cover other varieties that are an interesting part of this complex.

For those of you in So Cal, don't forget there is a PSSC meeting today in San Diego. I've got to get ready to go to the Board Meeting. See you there.

Phil

[Phil]

This morning let's talk about the "Merolae complex". In this complex I would place D. merolae, holmgrenii, and caputoi. One could also add Dioon tomaselii and sonorense to this group if you wanted to.

Dioon merolae has always been one of my favorites. It is slow growing. Plants in the wild can get trunks up to ten feet or more. In habitat these trunks sometimes lay on the ground for a ways, only to turn up toward the sky again. The leaves are stiff, up to about three feet, typically upright with new throws and more relaxed over time. They have a great color and this is somewhat variable. Typically the leaves are green to gray-green but there is this noticable white powdery look to some plants. They look sort of "frosty". This is the result of tomentum on the leaves. The leaves are gently keeled in "seagull" type of shape when looking along the axis of the leaf. It is really exciting when a merolae is throwing a big set of new leaves. I'll try to show a photo below of new leaves.

The first two photos are 15g plants. You'll note the second one shows more that unqiue color I'm talking about above. The third photo shows a set of fairly new leaves. This is a very old plant. Note how the lower leaves lay down, making room for the new throw.

The fourth picture gives you a little better look at the leaves. You can see the gently keeled leaves that then flex backwards. And, look at the orientation of the end of the leaf It tends to point toward the distal end of the leaf. Once you recognize this appearance, you'll spot a merolae every time. The fifth picture shows another very old specimen.

Dioon merolae are really a plant of beauty. You can't help but like them. They like heat, full sun and sandy soil. They don't take up much roomn int he garden. You can see I really like this species. More later.

Phil

[Phil]

Dioon homgrenii is another species in this "merolae complex". It's trunks can get a bit taller than merolae and are about the same diameter. It's leaves are flat or minimally keeled. The crown size and leaf length are longer than merolae, but the plant crown diameter is still not really big like other types of cycads. They like full sun in coastal areas. The new leaves emerge with tomentose hairs which is quite noticeable. This species, like most of the Dioons, is from Mexico.

The first photo is a 15g homgrenii. You can see how it looks sort of like the merolae. But, when you look more closely at the leaflets, they are different. Photos 2 and 3 show this. They are rather straight, without the "seagull-like" flex (see above, a hallmark of merolae)(.

Dioon caputoi is a smaller cycad and until about ten to twenty years ago unavailable on the market. The leaves are shorter than the merolae and holmgrenii. I include this species in this complex because the leaves are more or less flat in cross section. Like the other species, small spines can be seen on the leaflets. A noteable and identifying characteristic of this species are the narrow leaflets that are widely spaced with an "air gap" between the leaflets. There are characteristics of the leaflet's attachment that help as well, but these are quite difficult to show here. Also appealing is that this species does show some blue color to the leaves.

Photo number 4 below shows a containerized plant and the final picture shows a closeup of the leaf.

Phil

[MattyB]

Oh man, I'm gonna have to reference this thread several times before I learn all that. Thanks again for all the great information and pics.

[jkjt11]

Phil, Beautiful cycads and great info about dioons. I had heard of Dioon argenteum- it is very nice. Jeff

[Phil]

Jeff and MattyB,

Thanks for the feedback. I could cover a lot more Dioons here but want to shift gears to some palms.

I've been growing Pritchardia for about 30 years at the nursery. I figure I've sold at least 5000 of them. As long as you stick to the Hawaian species, they all do pretty well for us in So Cal. We presently have boxed/25g specimens of at least six or seven species and 15g size of a lot more. These would include hildebrandtii, munroii, "nut brown", beccaryana, possibly minor, lowyreyana and a whole lot of others. I'll show a few Pritchardia below. Maybe tomorrow I can get some pics of our bigger ones.

They are in order:

Pritchardia lowreyana

Pritchardia beccariana

Pritchardia schauttauerii

Pritchardia munroii

Pritchardia hildebrandtii

Pritchardia minor

Pritchardia sp.

Pritchardia sp. "nut brown"

Phil

chad

[BS Man about Palms]

This will be another Epic learning thread again... THANKS Phil!

Also, saw a "nut-brown" is Dennis W's yard after the last tour. Man that thing was looking b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l!

[Shon]

This will be another Epic learning thread again... THANKS Phil!

Also, saw a "nut-brown" is Dennis W's yard after the last tour. Man that thing was looking b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l!

Had a beauty of 15g and and killed it this year. Totally my fault.

[MattyB]

You killed a Pritchardia Shon? Oh man, you seriously better downshift to Trachycarpus brother. I don't think you can handle the tropical stuff.