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Arenga engleri


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#1 gsytch

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 06:34 PM

My Arenga, growing open and exposed and getting a LOT of summer sun, looks toasted???? I thought it was hardy? I know, it prefers shade, but that was where there was room and the palms nearby will need to grow up to shade it. It was REALLY exposed to lots of frost as it is wide open and in a drain. 27.8 F was the lowest but it was below freezing for 10+ hours in that area. Should I move it come spring? I'm bummed! :rage: Greg
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Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

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#2 mnorell

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 07:30 PM

Greg--

Don't despair...if what you have is really A. engleri (and with those temps, perhaps you have another Arenga?), it will be back, just be patient. My exposed specimens get damaged whenever temps go below 25 or so, browning out completely about 23F, and those under canopy are good to about 20-21F before burning. They always come back if they are of a decent size, though I do mulch them each fall to protect the bud in case of a bad freeze. Mine are totally fried after our 3-day continuous freeze with lowest lows of 18.4, 18.7 and 19.8F, and 12 days in a row of sub-freezing lows. But I know these puppies will be back. They came back for most people after the '89 freeze even in places where low single digits were experienced.

Wait until the other plants grow up around it and you'll have to worry less and less about it. In your area I think you get mid-upper 20s each year? If so you should have no problem, needless to say this was a bad year!
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Michael Norell

Big Pine Key, Florida | 24° 40' N 81° 21' W | elev. 4.5 ft. | Zone 11b | Calcareous substrate
- avg annual min. approx. 48F | Jan 65/75F, July 83/89F | Historical extreme: approx. 41F

Natchez, Mississippi | 31° 33' N 91° 24' W | elev. 220 ft.| zone 9a | Downtown/river-adjacent microclimate | Loess substrate
- avg min. 23F / lows: 24F | 27 | 23 | 23 | 24 | 18 | 23 | 27 | 27 | 18 (2013-14) | Jan 43/61F, July 73/93F | Extreme: 2.5F (1899)


#3 gsytch

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 01:36 PM

Michael- Thanks for the reply. We rarely experience anything under 30F. The last two years were awful but we did not go below 28F either year. However, this is very exposed and open, so perhaps that area falls a little lower tho my thermometer is in the coldest, shadiest spot. It seems to grow slower in the sun, which I've heard. Greg :huh:
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Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

#4 Gallop

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 02:12 AM

As mentioned before you may a different type of arenga, my large A. engleri planted on the east side of my house only getting morning sun has been tough as nails @ 13nights below freezing has shown no damage in Pensacola FL.

My Arenga, growing open and exposed and getting a LOT of summer sun, looks toasted???? I thought it was hardy? I know, it prefers shade, but that was where there was room and the palms nearby will need to grow up to shade it. It was REALLY exposed to lots of frost as it is wide open and in a drain. 27.8 F was the lowest but it was below freezing for 10+ hours in that area. Should I move it come spring? I'm bummed! :rage: Greg
[/quote]
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#5 Davidl

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 09:51 AM

Mine grows in full blazing sun with no problems at all.
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#6 jaybo

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 03:14 PM

I have a large A. engleri thriving in full sun all day long. I have some seedlings (one gallon now) from this large palm. I planted them in north Florida, full sun this summer. After the January freeze where the coldest night was 18degF, no damage was observed. As mentioned earlier, I suspect you have something other than A. engleri.
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#7 mnorell

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 10:05 PM

jaybo--

If you have an exposed Arenga that took 18F at the location of the plant with no damage, you may have somehow procured Arenga ryukyuensis...though even that one is said to start damaging around 20F. You can tell the two apart by looking at the adaxial (top) side of the leaflets. On A. ryukyuensis, it has a strongly ribbed surface; on A. engleri, it's flat.

Another thing about A. engleri is that it can look pretty much okay for some time after it freezes, then all of a sudden it turns the color of straw and there goes your foliage. But you would probably have seen this transformation by now if yours was damaged. As I said above, for me it defoliates at about 23F in the open and probably about 20F under canopy, and I believe this is in line with most other reports for this species.
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Michael Norell

Big Pine Key, Florida | 24° 40' N 81° 21' W | elev. 4.5 ft. | Zone 11b | Calcareous substrate
- avg annual min. approx. 48F | Jan 65/75F, July 83/89F | Historical extreme: approx. 41F

Natchez, Mississippi | 31° 33' N 91° 24' W | elev. 220 ft.| zone 9a | Downtown/river-adjacent microclimate | Loess substrate
- avg min. 23F / lows: 24F | 27 | 23 | 23 | 24 | 18 | 23 | 27 | 27 | 18 (2013-14) | Jan 43/61F, July 73/93F | Extreme: 2.5F (1899)


#8 jaybo

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 05:07 PM

jaybo--

If you have an exposed Arenga that took 18F at the location of the plant with no damage, you may have somehow procured Arenga ryukyuensis...though even that one is said to start damaging around 20F. You can tell the two apart by looking at the adaxial (top) side of the leaflets. On A. ryukyuensis, it has a strongly ribbed surface; on A. engleri, it's flat.

Another thing about A. engleri is that it can look pretty much okay for some time after it freezes, then all of a sudden it turns the color of straw and there goes your foliage. But you would probably have seen this transformation by now if yours was damaged. As I said above, for me it defoliates at about 23F in the open and probably about 20F under canopy, and I believe this is in line with most other reports for this species.


I will be visiting the north Florida area where the Arengas are planted mid February. I will report back then. My last observation was less than one week from the 18deg night. The Ravenea rivularis and Phoenix roebelenii next to the Arengas are completely dead. I understand some palms take some time before any cold damage is recognized. So maybe the Arengas are fried. I will follow up after my next observation.
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#9 krishnaraoji88

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 05:19 PM

Multiple nights below freezing with ultimate low somewhere around 20. Those in open have somewhat damaged fronds while those in shade have minimal damage.

-Krishna
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Living in Miami becoming a doctor
Gardening in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)
Freezes yearly, down to about 20 degrees with frost


#10 _Keith

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 05:24 PM

Multiple nights below freezing with ultimate low somewhere around 20. Those in open have somewhat damaged fronds while those in shade have minimal damage.

-Krishna


I had 3 nights near 20 and many below freezing. A. engleri is completely toasted, but the spear is tight, so there is some hope.
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#11 krishnaraoji88

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 05:56 PM


Multiple nights below freezing with ultimate low somewhere around 20. Those in open have somewhat damaged fronds while those in shade have minimal damage.

-Krishna


I had 3 nights near 20 and many below freezing. A. engleri is completely toasted, but the spear is tight, so there is some hope.


Mine had some protection of being near the house but the results were consistent across 3 plants.
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Living in Miami becoming a doctor
Gardening in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)
Freezes yearly, down to about 20 degrees with frost


#12 FRITO

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 06:47 PM

I planted a 6 foot tall 7 gallon with 2 suckers a couple feet. 1st winter in the ground. planted under some canopy, palm is in a shaded canopy.

Weather for the first 15 days of January 2010:
Hi/Lo
56/39
51/32
45/28
48/24
44/24
49/17
56/18
47/32
38/22
40/20
50/14
57/19
53/22
61/23
69/30

official airport low 14 degrees 1/11/2010, I suspect my yard saw UPPER TEENS (like 18) as the airport is in a cold hole.

Arenga engleri about %50 defoliation, new leaf on one of the clumps fried(expected), spears strong and GROWING on all growing points.

For comparison:

Queens - Defoliated, showing no green all over the yard & diff sizes.
Chamaedorea microspadix about %70 burned 10-15 feet away (slow to show)
P. Sylvestris - 90% defoliated 15ft away
L. Chinensis - about 5-10% damage, not worth writing home about.
Agave americana var. variegata- 90% defoliated, not fatal, new growth occuring (never seen these damaged before)
L. decora - 10-20% damage on lower leaves, looked fine then had 2 spears and an entire leaf pull from the bud.

Edited by FRITO, 21 February 2010 - 06:51 PM.

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#13 gsytch

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 03:12 AM

I got my Arenga from the palm group at USF so I should hope it is the real McCoy. I pruned off the damage as one spike was toast the rest is green. I wonder how being exposed affects it. It does get sun, a lot of it, and is totally open to frost. I may move it into more shade. Greg
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Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

#14 jaybo

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 07:23 PM

mnorell,

It seems you were correct. I visited north Florida this past weekend. The A. engleri was nearly completely brown. However, there is some green and the spear seems to be intact. See photo below:

IMG_0325.jpg

BTW...The weather station at http://www.wundergro...sp?ID=KFLCRESC2 is within 2 miles of this palms.
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#15 mnorell

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 09:32 PM

jaybo--

Again, don't worry about you Arenga, even though it looks like it's pretty small...but with the green tissue, plus this species' well-known resilience, it should be back. These are such nice palms for colder areas and even in a seemingly endless winter such as this, you can pretty much figure they'll recover. Hopefully tonight will be the last night you Floridians have to deal with a freeze!!! We had ours last night (27.8F, 7 hrs below freezing) and I'm hoping it's the end of such cold for us up here in the subtropical Arctic also known as southern Mississippi...where temps are not projected to hit an average high for at least a week, probably longer. Our mean temperature has been sub-normal since November, and for February it stands about 12F below normal. Ugh!!!!!
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Michael Norell

Big Pine Key, Florida | 24° 40' N 81° 21' W | elev. 4.5 ft. | Zone 11b | Calcareous substrate
- avg annual min. approx. 48F | Jan 65/75F, July 83/89F | Historical extreme: approx. 41F

Natchez, Mississippi | 31° 33' N 91° 24' W | elev. 220 ft.| zone 9a | Downtown/river-adjacent microclimate | Loess substrate
- avg min. 23F / lows: 24F | 27 | 23 | 23 | 24 | 18 | 23 | 27 | 27 | 18 (2013-14) | Jan 43/61F, July 73/93F | Extreme: 2.5F (1899)


#16 Rafael

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 01:36 PM

Does anyone knows if arenga engleri is supposed to become sun burned, if in full sun, showing large brown areas on its leaves.
Mine is showing that, i cant understand if it is sun damage or some kind of root rot or other issue. :(
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#17 Tampa Scott

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:16 PM

Rafael, I am growing A. engleri in full sun here in FL. Planted 10 yrs ago from a 3 gal pot. Never has had a problem with sun burn. Also of note I purchased 2 of them at the same time and planted the other 3 gal palm in a spot that receives only filtered sun. The palm in filtered sun has grown 1/4 the size of the full sun plant. The full sun palm has flowered for 3 yrs now, the filtered sun plant has not flowered.
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#18 Rafael

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 01:34 AM

Scott, thnx a lot for your useful input. My arenga came from greenhouse nursery, and i put it in the ground one month ago, in full sun, as i said above. Maybe it is trying to costumize, and, in the meanwhile, showing some sun damage, as it happens also with my 2 mts tall jubaea chilensis, came also from greenhouse. I will wait and remain observing. :)
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Furadouro, coastline, zone 9b. Ovar, zone 10a.
PORTUGAL
http://www.palmtalk....showtopic=20668
http://www.palmtalk....ar-january2012/

#19 krishnaraoji88

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 09:05 AM

One of mine that I put out from a greenhouse also shows those large brown spots. Its just sunburn and its new frond doesnt show it.

-Krishna
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Living in Miami becoming a doctor
Gardening in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)
Freezes yearly, down to about 20 degrees with frost


#20 tank

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 06:03 AM

Low of 14F. 14 days straight of below freezing temps. 80% overhead protection. No damage.
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Jason
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#21 Austinpalm

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 01:41 PM

Two 10-gallon plants under partial live oak canopy. Ultimate low of 16F with multiple lows in upper 20's and low 30's. Both plants fried to the ground. However, both have resprouted vigorously from the original stem as well as new ones.
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Clay
Austin, Texas, Zone 8b/9a




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