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A Greenhouse Question


MattyB

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I don't really know what forum to put this one in, but since I'll be growing palm trees in the greenhouse, I'll start it here.

How many hours of direct sun does a greenhouse need?

The only spot I have to put a greenhouse is a long but rather narrow swatch behind my garage.  The west wall would have to be the garage's exterior wall, the east wall would be butted up against a 6' tall wood fence, the north, south, and roof could be transluscent panels.  I'm estimating that the amount of hours that the sun will directly hit the roof will be 5-6.  Is this a good spot for a greenhouse or do I need more hours of sun and more transluscent panels on all sides?

Thanks for the help.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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why do you need a greenhouse in lemon grove,matt?

the giant lemon says it  has the "best climate on earth"

& humongous citrus don't lie!

the "prince of snarkness."

 

still "warning-free."

 

san diego,california,left coast.

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That's true!  I bet it's hot in that giant lemon!  I wonder how my seedlings would grow in there.  Seriously, I want to see at least some growth in my seedlings during the winter and from what I've seen/heard from other members, if I can get it 85 in the greenhouse when it's 60 outside I'll be in business.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Matt,

I had a greenhouse on my east side between my garage and 6 ft. fence. Similar to what you have in mind. So it only got sun up until about 2-3:00. Less in winter. It worked great. Because of my dispute with the neighbor on that side, I had to take it down.

PM me with your phone and I can give you some tips. I learned a lot during the 10 years I had it set up. I also have some top of the line greenhouse benches (2) that would be perfect for you. Free

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

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Wow Dean, you mean you aren't going to put up a big greenhouse on your mauka Kaloko property to protect those seedlings from the winter cold & possible frost!

Hawaii Island (Big Island), leeward coast, 19 degrees N. latitude, south Kona mauka at approx. 380m (1,250 ft.) and about 1.6 km (1-mile) upslope from ocean.

 

No record of a hurricane passing over this island (yet!).  

Summer maximum rainfall - variable averaging 900-1150mm (35-45") - Perfect drainage on black volcanic rocky soil.  

Nice sunsets!

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Matt:

I'm reading yuor post with interest, since I want a greenhouse too, and Greenhouse Brat can't be ignored.  (MUscled like Hulk, single-minded like Mongo).  

If my senile memory serves, the more sun the better, though half a day will work if that's what you have.

By that I  mean direct sun.

dave

P.S.  Show us pix when you do it . . .

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Al,

I have heard it gets under 50 once or twice every 5 years or so. That will seem like a frost.

I'm still getting a chuckle out of your tongue in cheek post from the old forum about your "greenhouse" idea with refrigeration, so you could grow all the rare plant species that won't tolerate our endless summers.

I don't think I have seen a true greenhouse anywhere in Hawaii. The closest is some covered "houses" to keep the rain off of tomatoes and the like.

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

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Dean,

Our absolute low (in more than ten years) is 57F/14C. We're at 880ft, and I believe you said you're at 2200 ft? Everything else being equal, the temp will drop about 3 degrees F for every 1000 ft in elevation, which would mean your lowest low should be right around 53F. If it were to drop to 50F (or below) that sounds like a very unusual occurrence. But then, I don't know if there are differences between Hilo and Kona side that needs to be taken into account.

Bo

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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Bo, I think you are probably right. The lowest I've seen is 53 F once a couple of years ago. The guy that said he has seen 49 F was up near Norman. At any rate, Hawaiian low temps probably last for an hour or less anyway, with 75 F shortly before and after.

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

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Matt, I have a greenhouse I built a few years ago and it gets full sunb pretty much all day. It's my OPINION that 5-6 hours would be ok. The last few weeks it has been really hot in there. It is not heated and last winter I left the door open because I will eventually bring my seedlings out doors. Make no mistake, the seedlings grow a lot faster in there than they do outside. I read an article that suggested growing seedlings in a greenhouse until they arew about five gallon size and then bring them out and acclimate them. This will will help your plants grow faster so the wait is limited. Also, seedlings need protection during the winter months. The only draw back is the acclimation period once you bring them out (don't think you should worry about that). My greenhouse is 8" x 12"> Seems small but there is actually pleny of room. Maybe I will post a pic if you like. I say BUILD THAT THING! Mike

Mike Hegger

Northwest Clairemont

San Diego, California

4 miles from coast

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Matt, I have a greenhouse I built a few years ago and it gets full sun pretty much all day. It's my OPINION that 5-6 hours would be ok. The last few weeks it has been really hot in there. It is not heated and last winter I left the door open because I will eventually bring my seedlings out doors. Make no mistake, the seedlings grow a lot faster in there than they do outside. I read an article that suggested growing seedlings in a greenhouse until they arew about five gallon size and then bring them out and acclimate them. This will will help your plants grow faster so the wait is limited. Also, seedlings need protection during the winter months. The only draw back is the acclimation period once you bring them out (don't think you should worry about that). My greenhouse is 8" x 12"> Seems small but there is actually pleny of room. Maybe I will post a pic if you like. I say BUILD THAT THING! Mike

Mike Hegger

Northwest Clairemont

San Diego, California

4 miles from coast

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Matt,

The GH is good for protecting those too tender items, germination, and pushing some species.  The amount of light you get will be ample for your purposes.  Re HI, I was told by the previous Director at National Botanical Gardens (Pacific Tropical Gardens) near Popui in Kuaii that the lowest ever temp there (and they are near the beach) was 52 degrees.   And, Matt, what about the picture of your wife at the old site?  You're not as pretty as her.

Phil

Jungle Music Palms and Cycads, established 1977 and located in Encinitas, CA, 20 miles north of San Diego on the Coast.  Phone:  619 2914605 Link to Phil's Email phil.bergman@junglemusic.net Website: www.junglemusic.net Link to Jungle Music Palms and Cycads

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Matt,

I have a greenhouse in my backyard and I do exactly what you want to do - works great. I keep it at around 80f/day, 60-70f/night when it's 25f outside. Key is the sun. In my area we have lots of sun during the winter since all the deciduous trees drop their leaves so my backyard is lit up like a christmas tree. But where I have my greenhouse I get sun from the morning till about 2pm (7 hours) and I keep everything in their from my citrus to coconuts and they all grow excellent. the only MAJOR problem I've noticed (in my area) with the greenhouse are pests - there are no natural predators to eat them so you have to keep on top of it. I'm actually buying a much bigger greenhouse this year now because I have a much larger collection.

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Bobby

Long Island, New York  Zone 7a (where most of the southern Floridians are originally from)

AVERAGE TEMPS

Summer Highs  : 85-90f/day,  68-75f / night

Winter Lows     : 38-45f/day,   25-35f / night

Extreme Low    : 10-20f/day,    0-10f / night   but VERY RARE

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The first thing I would have asked is what are you planning to grow in there? full sun stuff , full shade, germinating, growing "super" tropical goodies?

Second question;

covering? plasitc film, pollycarbonate, fibreglass... this all has to do with insulating properties if you intend to hold heat during winter and can dramaticaly reduce heating costs if that is the case...

Jason.

Made the move to Mandurah - West Aust

Kamipalms,
Growing for the future


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I dont have a green house, but how can i protet a bottle palm in winter? some say i can grow here if wrapped up on winter nights, some say its the soil temp that counts? winter here its average 15c for 4 weeks, then 20 plus. its my favourite palm of all, and i so much want to grow this palm, but just need some good advise? i was thining of buying a five old palm, about 120 cm tall

HyoLag.jpg

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 And, Matt, what about the picture of your wife at the old site?  You're not as pretty as her.

:) Thank God for that!

Kamipalms · Posted on Jul. 01 2006,10:52

The first thing I would have asked is what are you planning to grow in there? full sun stuff , full shade, germinating, growing "super" tropical goodies?

Second question;

covering? plasitc film, pollycarbonate, fibreglass... this all has to do with insulating properties if you intend to hold heat during winter and can dramaticaly reduce heating costs if that is the case...

Yes, good point Jay.  I'm going to be growing mainly palms.  Like Phil said, I will use the heat from the greenhouse to push the slower and smaller species especially during the cool winter days.  I will grow them up to a decent size and plant them out, so no ultratropicals, no heating.  I think I'll pour a concrete slab floor for some extra thermal mass.  It'll be against the garage too so that will help on frosty nights.  I know some people use Redwood, but I thought I'd use P.T. Doug. Fir.  Wouldn't that be better than Redwood? What transluscent panels should I use?  Matt in SD has a really nice greenhouse with corrugated plastic that has some tint to it.  I liked the look.  How's that going Matt?  Should I use 3 wall polycarbonate...5 wall?  Or is that just for insulating against heat loss when heating, which I'll not be doing.

Mike please do post a pic.  I'd love to see it.

Thanks everyone for all your help...save Dean and Al who only mock our attempts to create an artificial tropical space that mimicks the environment they walk out into everyday.  Thanks alot guys!:D

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Thanks everyone for all your help...save Dean and Al who only mock our attempts to create an artificial tropical space that mimicks the environment they walk out into everyday.  Thanks alot guys

Yo Matt, the Hawaiians will never know the thrill of growing something tropical outside tropical. They are the ones missing out, the arrogant @*^#%%#s

:D

Yes, I am jealous.

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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Actually Wal, that's why we moved here in the first place....

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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