PALMS WITH FRAGILE ROOTS

[LilikoiLee]

The thread about Joey palms’ light needs opened my eyes to something else I need to know: which of my palms have fragile roots and need to be planted out at just the right time and never transplanted.

I pulled out Riffle & Craft. Lots of lists there, but none about fragile roots. I then googled and bing’d the topic, but no lists there either. (Lots of other good info, though.)

So, if all of the Seed Setters on Palm Talk compiled a list of palms with fragile roots it would not only be an internet first but fewer innocent palms would die at the hands of well-intentioned but uninformed Seedlings like me.

Es possible?

Lee

[Palm Painter]

From discussions with other Palmaholics Bismarkias have tender roots and once established do not transplant well.

Palm Painter (Henry)

[Ken Johnson]

Lee,

I have been dealing with roots for 28 years. Transplanting palms is my business! We often forget about palm roots as we pay so much attention to the better looking parts of palms.

There are some studies by botonist and they can be found online from University publications.

The one place most of us deal with roots is in the seedling stage. When transplanting these very young palms you can often get all the roots to make it to the next size pot with ease. These palms are often the ones that tolerate root breakage the most. It is when you have long roots, curling at the bottom of the pot, that you have problems with the physics of gravity and soil loss. These palms are often the ones that are most sensitive to root damage.

When palms get bigger and are established in the ground, transplanting is always possible, some very easy, some very hard.

An interesting note too is that some potted palms have thier roots coming out the bottom of the pot while in the nursery. When these pots are lifted (for the first time in years in some cases) the roots get broken and the palm can die if left to dry out quickly which they are prone to do.

In any case keeping the roots wet while transplanting can solve lots of problems.

[Patrick]

List wise, one of the first that I can think of that I have heard about is Sabal minor. I have heard that some Sabals don't mind root disturbance, some do. This is one that I have heard is in the "do" category.

In general I try to do as little with all palm roots as possible. I just HATE it when I'm transplanting and a root ball comes apart on me!

So, that's what I've got. Now I'm going to watch this thread like a hawk!

[Gbarce]

I know that Joey's are fatally sensetive and I have heard that Licualas are also very sensetive to root disturbance.

[fastfeat]

Archontophoenix, Howea, Bismarckia are difficult to field dig and move successfully, but are rather easy to transplant from containers.

Bismarckia can be field dug if root pruned (in stages) before digging.

Not sure if any of these genera really have fragile root systems per se, but extra care must be taken when transplanting.

I'm sure others here can provide far more info on many other species.

[Peter Pacific]

The thread about Joey palms’ light needs opened my eyes to something else I need to know: which of my palms have fragile roots and need to be planted out at just the right time and never transplanted.

I pulled out Riffle & Craft. Lots of lists there, but none about fragile roots. I then googled and bing’d the topic, but no lists there either. (Lots of other good info, though.)

So, if all of the Seed Setters on Palm Talk compiled a list of palms with fragile roots it would not only be an internet first but fewer innocent palms would die at the hands of well-intentioned but uninformed Seedlings like me.

Es possible?

Lee

Hi Lee, I love this post! I have nearly killed a Latania loddiggesii and a Brahea armata for moving them. But maybe someone can help me with Foxy Ladies? I have a small one in the ground for over a month and nothing is happening and I am starting to worry a little. I planted a Spindle/bottle hybrid at the same time that has amazing growth but, my Foxy Lady nothing. The leaves are still green (maybe a little burned from the sun) but no new growth...Help?

[buffy]

List wise, one of the first that I can think of that I have heard about is Sabal minor.

The problem with Sabal minor is the underground trunk base. You have to get them when they're real young, or you have to dig real deep. They're not that sensitive, you just need to know what you're digging up before you start. I dug up 24 native Sabal minor seedlings two years ago and placed them in tall liners. I've only lost 1 or 2. I did not take a tremendous amount of special care.

[realarch]

I've had trouble with Pigafetta seedlings, they seem to really hate being disturbed. Have to be very careful.

I've heard Archontophoenix is a touch and go situation when digging up and transplanting, but I've not had any problem with A.alexandrae say 2-4 feet tall. In fact I've transplanted a few more than once and then finally into someone else's yard and they still lived.

Tim

[DoomsDave]

Lee:

This is one of those great questions that's like:

"What causes cancer?" or "What's the meaning of life?" etc.

I mean that sincerely and non-mockingly. As should be becoming evident the answer in a particular case is going to vary all over the map.

The best answer I can give is, what palm in particular? Which, I know won't help much as a preventative, but . . . .

Ken Johnson will probably know. I've been growing palms for going on 20 years, and if I have a question about moving one, I ask Ken. His place is an acre full to the rim like a Cup of Brim with palms he's dug and moved, and some of them are HUGE.

That said, palms, as a group, can be moved much more easily than dicot trees, primarily because there's usually much less of them to move in any one plant. Imagine moving a mature banyan tree . . . .

But, some are touchy, no doubt about it. Forget about moving Dictyocaryum larmarckianum . . .

Also, failures in moving are often at least as much a function of not-so-hot after-move care as any insult to the roots. My general advice -- correct me if I'm wrong, oh sages -- is to protect transplantees from the wind, and stake, water and watch carefully, sometimes for weeks, sometimes for months. Do that and most healthy palms moved to a happy new home will root right in and not look back. In your case, "aren't you lucky you live Hawaii?"

If you have specific questions ask away!

[amazon exotics]

Serenoa doesn't transplant well.

[Eric in Orlando]

Guihaia and Lytocaryum also have sensitive roots when transplanting from containers.

[foxtail]

What about Raphia farinifera????

[krisinmexico]

around here  Brahea armata , aka mexican blue palm has a reputation for transplant issues. i managed to kill one after a very careful move. included a generic photo 

 

[PAPalmGrower]

My understanding is that Nannorrhops (Mazari palms) do not transplant well due to their long roots.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

7 hours ago, PAPalmGrower said:

My understanding is that Nannorrhops (Mazari palms) do not transplant well due to their long roots.

Mature mazari transplant very well. I have had 6 field dug specimens in the last few years that never missed a beat. When they are small they can setback really bad if a few roots are broken.  Arabica is much worse than ritcheana. 

[PAPalmGrower]

10 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Mature mazari transplant very well. I have had 6 field dug specimens in the last few years that never missed a beat. When they are small they can setback really bad if a few roots are broken.  Arabica is much worse than ritcheana. 

That's really good to know! Thank you. Do you have to get a huge amount of roots when bigger ones are dug?  Or, can they tolerate some root loss, like a Trachycarpus?

I guess it's just the Mazari seedlings that are sensitive to the roots being broken, then.  I recently germinated six Kashmir form Mazari palms and was very careful not to break the roots when placing them into their individual pots.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

14 hours ago, PAPalmGrower said:

That's really good to know! Thank you. Do you have to get a huge amount of roots when bigger ones are dug?  Or, can they tolerate some root loss, like a Trachycarpus?

I guess it's just the Mazari seedlings that are sensitive to the roots being broken, then.  I recently germinated six Kashmir form Mazari palms and was very careful not to break the roots when placing them into their individual pots.

N arabica set back really bad as seedlings and Ritcheana is not as sensitive. I am convinced these are two completely different species. Hardiness wise Arabica is a zone 9b palm and ritcheana is a zone 7 palm. I lost almost all of my potted arabica at mid 20s, whereas 1g ritcheana froze in the pot at 16f and never even burned.  You can dig ritcheana just like butia or windmills right out of the field.

[PAPalmGrower]

10 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

N arabica set back really bad as seedlings and Ritcheana is not as sensitive. I am convinced these are two completely different species. Hardiness wise Arabica is a zone 9b palm and ritcheana is a zone 7 palm. I lost almost all of my potted arabica at mid 20s, whereas 1g ritcheana froze in the pot at 16f and never even burned.  You can dig ritcheana just like butia or windmills right out of the field.

Excellent to know! Have you any experience with the cold tolerance of the silver form of ritchieana (not the arabica), but the form that goes by Nannorrhops ritchieana var. 'Silver'? I'd assume that this form could transplant as easily as the green form of ritchieana? I have one in a pot (see pic below) and I'm contemplating trying it in the ground with winter protection (I'm in zone 6b), but may have to dig it up again in the future if it suffers too badly over the winter. Thanks.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

1 hour ago, PAPalmGrower said:

Excellent to know! Have you any experience with the cold tolerance of the silver form of ritchieana (not the arabica), but the form that goes by Nannorrhops ritchieana var. 'Silver'? I'd assume that this form could transplant as easily as the green form of ritchieana? I have one in a pot (see pic below) and I'm contemplating trying it in the ground with winter protection (I'm in zone 6b), but may have to dig it up again in the future if it suffers too badly over the winter. Thanks.

I have a customer in Amarillo that purchased a mature Ritcheana from me and is borderline 6B/7A (-3F last year).  While his winter lows would be about the same as yours his much higher daytime temps, lack of precip and dramatically higher radiational heating gives his palm a dramatically higher chance of survival than anywhere in PA.  If you protect the Ritcheana in the winter I am confident that it would survive.

[DoomsDave]

Dictyocaryum lamarckianum seems to hate root disturbance. I ordered a number years ago, they were shipped to me in the pots, and even after planting pot and all they all died.

Of course, maybe their hate of my climate was what did it.

[foxtail]

On 7/10/2017, 9:27:35, foxtail said:

What about Raphia farinifera????

Anyone can confirm? 

Anyway, I think it's too late

[realarch]

I'll tell ya, clumping Ptychosperma roots can be literally brutalized and it doesn't seem to be a problem. 

I transplanted three Ptychos into smaller decorative pots and had to chop over half the root ball off along with removing 

a couple of main stems and virtually no setback. 

Not the most populat palms, but they do serve a purpose where a vigorous potted specimen is needed that can be 

neglected and pruned. Not bad looking Palms when kept under control.

 

Tim

[Matthew92]

What have people found with transplanting Phoenix? I have a couple seedlings of Phoenix loureiroi var. humilis with one leaf out of the ground I'm thinking I may need to move.

[Scott Cohen]

They are pretty easy to my knowledge. 

[Scott Cohen]

borassus in the seedling stage and joey's are the tough for me.