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Palms in a secluded bay turkey


palmtreesforpleasure

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Hi All

Found these palms in a bay in the Hisareonu Gulf Turkey

There is evidence of maybe civilisation back 1300-1000 bc in the area. The only way to get there is by boat. They have spread up a valley into the hills and also cover the shore line

There is also dead trunks that look like they have died of old age

It was a real surprise to see them as the only other place we have seen palms are the ones planted in towns but never this many in one place. Phoenix........... Somebody might know the species

post-197-1151696132_thumb.jpg

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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another pic

post-197-1151696232_thumb.jpg

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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more

post-197-1151696337_thumb.jpg

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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They where growing over each other and some appeared to be suckering

post-197-1151696633_thumb.jpg

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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trunk

post-197-1151696922_thumb.jpg

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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Excellent location pics Colin. I wonder how old a date palm can get before throwing in the fronds.

There's another term for the palapa word post.

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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the climate is very harsh summer temp up to 40c and freezing in the winter. the ground is very rocky and the bay is battered by strong winds. a very hardy palm

post-197-1151697471_thumb.jpg

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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from underneath

post-197-1151697851_thumb.jpg

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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Here is a small one

some where hanging of the side of a 30m cliff

regards

colin

post-197-1151698104_thumb.jpg

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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I once read that there were a few isolated spots on the Turkey coast where Phoenix theophrasti grow.  Also found on the island of Crete.  Not bad looking for a stiff thorny palm.

Hawaii Island (Big Island), leeward coast, 19 degrees N. latitude, south Kona mauka at approx. 380m (1,250 ft.) and about 1.6 km (1-mile) upslope from ocean.

 

No record of a hurricane passing over this island (yet!).  

Summer maximum rainfall - variable averaging 900-1150mm (35-45") - Perfect drainage on black volcanic rocky soil.  

Nice sunsets!

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oh, yeah, they're P. theophrastii all right.

Thorny as an ethical dilemma, and worse for skydiving into.

Yike!

I had one in a pot years ago, and it would bite back.  Also one at the Big H.

dave

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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(palmsforpleasure @ Jun. 30 2006,15:35)

QUOTE
The only way to get there is by boat.

Colin,

   The theory behind Phoenix theophrasti found at two beaches in Crete ( Vai and Preveli ) is that they arrived by boat. The Phoenicians are said to have brought them on their voyage to Crete as food - discarding the seeds on the beaches. Seeing the populations of these palms in Crete certainly is a beautiful site. Unfortunately, due to some idiots frequently setting the palms on fire, they are now fenced in.

    Your statement about only getting to these Phoenix palms by boat would certainly by in sync with the Cretian theory of origin.

    By the way Colin, if you are still coming to Rhodes, I would like to get together with you and show you some good Rhodian hospitality. Will PM you my contact info and I could assist you on anything you need to know about our little island.

Maurice

Lardos, Greece ( Island of Rhodes ) 10B

1.9 km from Mediterannean Sea

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HI maurice

will contact you when we arrive

regards

colin

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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Hi  to those who replied

So The Phoenicians seeded the bay. amazing history in this region. the phoenicians are about 2000 years ago? i gues they only survived due to the remote location

thanks

colin

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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The Phoenicians ( who came from present-day Lebanon ) were most "active" in the period of 900-1200 B.C. They were a major military power - quite active in trading as well - in the entire Mediterranean region.

That would be the most likely time the poplulation of palms you photographed were first seeded.

Lardos, Greece ( Island of Rhodes ) 10B

1.9 km from Mediterannean Sea

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What about the Archontophoenicians ?

I bet they weren't into military nonsense. Probably hung around Northern Queensland, Australia, eating tropical fruits, catching bara, smoking loco weed, keeping crocodiles for pets, waiting for the rugby league association to be formed I'd say.

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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Hi MAurice

The palms have spread up the valley, bay and hills, the surrounding hills are not supporting much vegetation. Water seems to be from winter rains.  Apparently there is no rain for 6 months in the summer. very tough palms. They seem so out of place. no habitation for miles then suddenly an oasis of palms. came as quite a surprise. If somebody is going that way i do have the lat and long. PM me for the details. would not want anyone to destroy them, 3000 years of peaceful survival.

if only yhey could talk about their ancestors

regards

colin

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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In 1995 I was sent two packets of seed from Turkey,one of P.theophrasti and the other from a new locality in the Golkoy-Bodrum area of Turkey. This third group of Phoenix differ from theophrasti in that it grows on boggy ground,length of flower stalk, size and shape of seed. I have two palm of the Turkish thoephrasti and two of the Gorkoy palm growing in the ground.Is anyone else growing them? There is a very good account of these palms in "Princpes Vol 39,No.3 July 1995. The Thoephrasti is on the front cover. John

Old Miakka, Florida

23 miles inland from Sarasota Bay

Zone 9b

middle of a swamp in SW Central FL

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Hi John

Was this particular bay of palms in principals 1995? they have a bluish colour to them

regards

colin

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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Colin, Yes the palms are on the cover of Palms 1995.Yes the ones I have growing are blue,if the sun comes out, its been raining for 9 days,I'll take some photos.John

Old Miakka, Florida

23 miles inland from Sarasota Bay

Zone 9b

middle of a swamp in SW Central FL

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In June of 1996 I went to the town of Kusadasi to take a trip over to the ruins of Epiraeus. This reminded me that there are palms on site there as well as on the way from what I can remember, and they are P. theophrastii.

Christian Faulkner

Venice, Florida - South Sarasota County.

www.faulknerspalms.com

 

Μολὼν λάβε

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  • 4 years later...

Nice habitat photos of a palm with a very limited distribution! :greenthumb:

Thanks for posting Colin.

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

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Nice habitat photos of a palm with a very limited distribution! :greenthumb:

Thanks for posting Colin.

Certainly was a surprise to find them there for me

thanks

colin

coastal north facing location

100klm south of Sydney

NSW

Australia

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Well the Phoenicians came from whats now Libanon if I am right. In the Middle East they had Phoenix dactylifera allready more the 3000 years back in cultivation! And they where spread throut the Middle East and North Africa by man. But why do they call the Phoenix from Crete and those view other places in Southern Turky then T. theophrastii? If they where introduced by man they should be bassically T. dactylifera! And then T. theophrastii is not more then a form of P. dactylifera! I do not know how the fruits of P. theophrastii taste, I have never heard they are edible.

About Phoenix for food, I can imagine that those phoenicians took some selected variaties with them. Well to me it seems logical that was P. dactylifera! It said the first P. dactylifera in Elche, Spain, where also introduced by the Phoenicians. Well thats not P. theophrastii as far as I know! I have heard this story before. But when true, P. theophrastii should be found in the Middle East, for example Syria and/our Libanon as well. I have never heard that they grow in that area or did so in the past!

I thought always that T. theophrastii was an endemic species from Creta and, a fiew other nearby areas and had survived the Iceages probably in some sheltered microclimates. During the Iceages the Mediterranean Sea was mostely dry with an arid climate. P. theophrastii migh have survived in some gorges and oases there. Phoenix was a palm genus found in the warmer Tertiary period in Europe. Like Chamaerops. So those 2 palmspecies could be recarded as Tertiary relicts in Europe. Uneless P. theophrastii had been introduced by the Phoenicians.

P. dactylifera has also naturalised in Southern Spain in some place. But its not regarded as trully native there.

Alexander

  • Upvote 2
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About the climate in Southern Turky, it can get below 0 C there sometimes during the night but its certainly not a cold climate! Well uneless maybe you are used to a tropical climate...

Alexander

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  • 5 years later...
On 4/7/2006, 2:36:26, mlovecan said:

The Phoenicians ( who came from present-day Lebanon ) were most "active" in the period of 900-1200 B.C. They were a major military power - quite active in trading as well - in the entire Mediterranean region.

 

That would be the most likely time the poplulation of palms you photographed were first seeded.

Sorry Maurice, this is RIDICULOUS theory made by totally ignorants who fancy themselves knowledgable, a real threat to democracy according to Plato lol! Really have you ever seen a ripe fruit of theo? I am sure that if you had really seen it, you would also realize how loughable this theory is (carried as food supply).

Edited by Phoenikakias
Correction
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  • 1 month later...

Phoenix theophrastii is not a variaty of P. dactylifera as far as I know. If the Phoenicians had introduced them it should have edible fruits.

Here a distribution map of all Phoenix species.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/271305650_fig1_Figure-2-Distribution-of-the-Phoenix-species

Alexander

 

 

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2 hours ago, Explorer said:

Phoenix theophrastii is not a variaty of P. dactylifera as far as I know. If the Phoenicians had introduced them it should have edible fruits.

Here a distribution map of all Phoenix species.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/271305650_fig1_Figure-2-Distribution-of-the-Phoenix-species

Alexander

 

 

Neat map! What's interesting to me is that, considering the distribution of P. sylvestris compared to P. rupicola, you'd expect P. rupicola to have a slight edge in cold hardiness, but it's one of the more tender species in the genus. 

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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  • 2 weeks later...

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