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Mystery Dypsis


bgl

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Bill's (BS Man) comment/question in our thread in the Share-a-Site forum made me go out and take a few updated photos of this particular Mystery Dypsis. I have a total of four of these in the same general area and there's a photo of each of the four below. The smallest one (first photo) is only about 3-4 ft tall. The 'in between' (photo #2) is about 6 ft tall, and the remaining two (#3 and #4) are both close to 12 ft tall (up to the tip of the new spike). The close-up is of #3.

Background: in Dec 2001 I drove down to Kapoho Palms and bought a number of palms. In one area in the shadehouse they had twelve 1 gallon pots, all with Dypsis. All were labeled "Dypsis tsaratananensis". Despite being fairly small, it was obvious to me that there were probably three different species among those 12 little palms. I bought all 12. At $7 each, seemed like a good idea! :) I planted all 12 in January 2002. Now, a bit more than 7 years later, some of these palms have grown quite a bit, some not so much. A few turned out to be (what we now know to be) Dypsis tsaravoasira, some of which now have 6-7 ft of trunk. The first palm below has been one of the slower ones, but I'm certain that the palms in the photos below are all the same species. The question is, what species? When John Dransfield was here in July 2008 he did not know. Any others with this palm? Any ideas?

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Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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I s this the one Kim showed a few weeks ago after visiting a famous collection here in So Cal? It's intriguing!

Scott

San Fernando Valley, California

Sunset Climate Zone 18

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Awesome Bo!! Thanks for the pic update. Looking at your pics one and two, I am 90% certain I have one and Bud Zager has one in the ground . See "planted pic" taken in early 2007. Buds, as was mine, was also sold around here as D. tsaratananensis. The So Cal guide even list them that way, but I think in reality that is Dypsis "white".

The other pics are not of mine (I'm looking) but of our favorite stealth south Florida collector, which has sadly since carked. BUT, he said in some of the OLDER Australian collections it was known as D. honkona or D. hankona, not to be confused with the "new" versions sold now. They new ones ARE NOT the same palm.

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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Found some sad pics of mine. Very sad as you may note that it is in a 25 gal tub AS I purchased it and paid accordingly. Under some good advice from Len and Gary Levine, I repotted it to a MUCH better mix AND a MUCH smaller pot! As a matter of fact, it is now in a 2 GALLON pot and I did not have to cram or fold the roots at all. :( But the good news from Gary (some of my palms spend winters at Garys... :) ) is that it is pushing a new spear.

Another view of it in another pic, but you can see my MUCH happier Dypsis hovomansina there too. Oh yeah, mony, mony in front.. :drool:

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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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I posted this picture before and was informed that I had "Honkona". If John Dransfield is flummoxed I suspect your biggest plant may end up being the type specimen!

I also temporarily have Hankona (aka fine leaf decipiens, I think) but unfortunately I just pulled the spear! The Honkona is doing well and now looks much better than the picture. However, this will be its first winter in my cold greenhouse so please say a prayer to the palm gods. Already we have seen 6C and had hail!

IMG_1955.jpg

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Bill,

Did you really pay for that plant? :mrlooney:

Matt

San Diego

0.6 Acres of a south facing, gently sloped dirt pile, soon to be impenetrable jungle

East of Mount Soledad, in the biggest cold sink in San Diego County.

Zone 10a (I hope), Sunset 24

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Bill, not for me to disagree with your findings but I don't see the same reddish color on the petioles of 'yours', but that could obviously be for a variety of reasons - environment, size of the plant, lighting (the sun more or less bleached out the reddish color on my #3 above - in the photo I mean!). And, in the name of clarification, should probably mention that there were a number of palms sold under the Dypsis tsaratananensis in the late 1990 and early 2000s. I believe most of them turned out to be what we now call Dypsis sp. white, which is most definitely a different palm from the ones above.

Matt, that's a good question! I was wondering the same thing myself...

Rich, thanks for posting that photo. Looks like it could be one and the same!

Bo-Göran

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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Bo, nice palms whatever they turn out to be!

Bill, you paid the 25 gallon price for what turned out to be a 2 gallon palm? You TRULY are a dedicated palm collector!

Formerly Jeff in Costa Rica
 

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Bo- I think they are the same. Tri thought so when he saw it. I suspect its green for all the reasons you mentioned. Or else there is a "green" version with IDENTICAL leaflets! :P

Everything else: guilty, I'll leave it at that.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Gary- Heres the thread. Look harder....

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Good news on my repot on this. The new spear looks happy.....

post-27-1242791656_thumb.jpg

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Invoice is in the mail.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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  • 10 months later...

Semi-good news for me. I was about to give up on this palm as the "spear" you saw in post #11 opened to the roughly 10" long leaf you see here. BUT, I'm surprised it is starting a new spear!. If its the same size, thats good, if smaller, I suspect it will create a small black hole in about 3 years and suck all my other slow growing Dypsis in with it!!!

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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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BUT, the real reason to revive this is I went to Dennis W. yard yesterday with a camera and light this time and I'm fairly convinced its the same palm Bo and Rich have. (any update pics from you guys?) Dennis said he got it about 10 years ago as Dypsis honkona habitat form.

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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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More shots, but I think if you allow for the different growing conditions, its the same palm!:rolleyes:

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Any agreements, or arguments or updates?

Yep, I continue to love Dypsis.... :hmm::D

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Bill, may very well be one and the same. Here are some updated photos of a few of mine. I have (at least) four of these. No photo below of the smallest one, though.

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Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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Mine are thriving much to my surprise having spent winter in my cool shadehouse. Is this possibly a form of decipiens? Close up mine has a decipiens look about it. I now have one in-ground so let's see what full winter exposure does. Anyone know where the seed was collected?

cheers

Richard

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Bo, Bill and others, nice pics and as usual you guys keep the rest of us wishing :lol:

On the topic of mystery Dypsis, do any of you have (pics) of what has been called Dypsis tennuissama??

I obtained a plant similar to one in a post bill had recently under this name and wondered who else had it.

  • Upvote 1

Bruce

Innisfail - NQ AUS - 3600mm of rain a year average or around 144inches if you prefer - Temp Range 9c to 43c

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Bruce, sorry, can't help you with that one.

And Richard, these are most definitely not D. decipiens, or a form of decipiens.

Bo-Göran

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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Here is a pic of what I believe to be the same palm, it is certainly the same palm as Richards as it was from the same batch of seed, which at the time was sold as D. tsaratanensis. It was planted out a few months ago in Auckland, NZ.post-636-12692934482356_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 2

Michael

Auckland

New Zealand

www.nznikau.com

http://nzpalmandcycad.com

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Thanks Michael! I thought somewhere I saw you had one and I hoped would post a pic!!

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Bill, may very well be one and the same. Here are some updated photos of a few of mine. I have (at least) four of these. No photo below of the smallest one, though.

I'm just thinking out loud here, and I'm probably wrong, but when you see large D bejofo in habitat in pictures, it wouldn't be hard to imagine these as young bejofo's. That's what I see in them any way. My biggest D bejofo's are two leafers and 25cm tall, so I have nothing larger to compare.

Best regards

Tyrone

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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Bill, may very well be one and the same. Here are some updated photos of a few of mine. I have (at least) four of these. No photo below of the smallest one, though.

I'm just thinking out loud here, and I'm probably wrong, but when you see large D bejofo in habitat in pictures, it wouldn't be hard to imagine these as young bejofo's. That's what I see in them any way. My biggest D bejofo's are two leafers and 25cm tall, so I have nothing larger to compare.

Best regards

Tyrone

Tyrone-

It would take me a long time to find the pics, but I know they are different palms. I've had both at an early age.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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More shots, but I think if you allow for the different growing conditions, its the same palm!:rolleyes:

post-27-12692234745894_thumb.jpg

post-27-12692235319124_thumb.jpg

Any agreements, or arguments or updates?

Yep, I continue to love Dypsis.... :hmm::D

I was watching the Floribunda garden tour on palmpedia, and there is a palm that looks identical to those shown here. Jeff Marcus said that Dr Dransfield referred to it as possibly the true hovomantsina. All i know is i want 30 of them.

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I think this could be a palm from some altitude which would rule out Hovomantsina. It's certainly no whimp and might turn out to be one of very few Dypsis that we can grow well.

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I think this could be a palm from some altitude which would rule out Hovomantsina. It's certainly no whimp and might turn out to be one of very few Dypsis that we can grow well.

Very interesting. I want to know what it is now.

Best regards

Tyrone

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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Bruce, sorry, can't help you with that one.

And Richard, these are most definitely not D. decipiens, or a form of decipiens.

Bo-Göran

Bo, the attached pic below is from bills post which was called Dypsis tennuissama,

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the others are my palm, any ideas or are they to juvenile?

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  • Upvote 1

Bruce

Innisfail - NQ AUS - 3600mm of rain a year average or around 144inches if you prefer - Temp Range 9c to 43c

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Bruce, the "trunkal" area has a lot of brown tomentum on the D. tennuissama. You may have one.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Thanks for the reply Bill, is there anyone else you know might have any info on one?

Bruce

Innisfail - NQ AUS - 3600mm of rain a year average or around 144inches if you prefer - Temp Range 9c to 43c

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Just a quick update here. I was reading an old PSSC journal and it mentioned someone who had gone to Madagascar to look for the "Honkona palm". At one point he met Alfred and he told him it was not a place, but Malgasy for a description of the leaf....:blink:

Since the leaves are so very different on this palm, it makes sense. Really.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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BS do you have an id on your Pauleen's Dypsis?

No. But I did recently hear that some "Baby red stems" were VERY slow D. madagascarensis. BUT, I can't find any reports of red leaves...:blink:

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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  • 2 months later...

A couple of photos taken today, the day after the winter solstice. The sharp winter light has whitened the colours a little. This palm is still growing well an hasn't slowed noticeably with the onset of the cool weather. As you can see it is just opening a new leaf. Those having trouble growing these in hot greenhouses take note!

cheers

Richard

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Nice bump Richard as there are some updates... Shon and I have found a VERY few of the palms identical to that which you have that came in as Dypsis betefaka. When next to the others, they are quite different with the red spear and all...

My little guy has opened that tiny leaf/spear and is pushing another... :D

Bruce I missed your question, did you find an answer?

BS

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Only ever more questions Bill :lol: post another pic of your new spear please.

Bruce

Innisfail - NQ AUS - 3600mm of rain a year average or around 144inches if you prefer - Temp Range 9c to 43c

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  • 2 years later...
Good news on my repot on this. The new spear looks happy.....

Bill - what does it look like now? :huh:

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

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Just a quick update here. I was reading an old PSSC journal and it mentioned someone who had gone to Madagascar to look for the "Honkona palm". At one point he met Alfred and he told him it was not a place, but Malgasy for a description of the leaf....blink.gif

Since the leaves are so very different on this palm, it makes sense. Really.

Could this be a potential lead on Meg's Mystery Dypsis sp. malagasy palm ? :unsure:

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

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  • 3 years later...
On 6/22/2010, 8:20:52, BS Man about Palms said:

Nice bump Richard as there are some updates... Shon and I have found a VERY few of the palms identical to that which you have that came in as Dypsis betefaka. When next to the others, they are quite different with the red spear and all...

 

My little guy has opened that tiny leaf/spear and is pushing another... :D

 

 

Bruce I missed your question, did you find an answer?

 

BS

Here you go @FallBrookJason this is what I was referring to..

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Len, Do you remember One of the growing at the top of Docs driveway to the north side years back?

 

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Not sure Bill. I don't recall seeing a palm like this there. 

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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