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Cycad cones and flushes


Urban Rainforest

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Horridus dew. I wish i would have had my good camera with me this morning.  A lot of cycads still flushing with the really warm october. 

20161110_212230.jpg

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On 11/10/2016, 7:20:38, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Morning dew on a lehmanii flush.

Love the dew when I go to the full size file and zoom in.  Ironically, I didn't realize until very recently that you can zoom in when you open the full size file.  I wish that I had stumbled on that ability to zoom before, as it proved useful in looking at some leaflet details in some  posts I was looking at.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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On 11/10/2016, 10:23:56, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Horridus dew. I wish i would have had my good camera with me this morning.  A lot of cycads still flushing with the really warm october. 

Can't tell from the photos if these are potted, but assumed so - do you bring these in in the winter or do they stay outdoors (protected?)  What kind of minimum temps have you subjected them to?

Steve

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They are in 30"boxes and will be put inside the greenhouse in a few weeks. It looks like it dropped to 34 at the nursery this morning with heavy frost so i am curious now the flushing  natalensis and longifolius will make out. 

All of these will go into the ground next year in an area that will be able to be covered/enclosed in the winter.

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Our Encephalartos kisambo finishing it's flush.  So nice to see each flush with larger and larger leaves.  No cone as of yet.  It's only been flushing once yearly, but always a good, healthy, generous flush.

DSC_1907.jpg

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14 minutes ago, annafl said:

 It's only been flushing once yearly, but always a good, healthy, generous flush.

I have the same experience with this Encephalartos, one flush per year.  I think we both have a ways to go before this species will cone.  Mine was a large 15 gallon when I planted it about 6 years ago. 

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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3 hours ago, Tracy said:

I have the same experience with this Encephalartos, one flush per year.  I think we both have a ways to go before this species will cone.  Mine was a large 15 gallon when I planted it about 6 years ago. 

Very similar history then, Tracy.  I can't remember if we put it in the ground in 2011 or 2012, but it was in a 15 gallon and ready to be moved up.  It did not even blink after being placed in the garden.  Fortunately, encephalartos really like our garden. 

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Update picture- the frost really damaged the new longifolius flush and only minor damage on the newest soft lehmanii leaves.  The longifolius looks about as bad as my 1g ensete ventricosum. 

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18 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Update picture- the frost really damaged the new longifolius flush and only minor damage on the newest soft lehmanii leaves.  The longifolius looks about as bad as my 1g ensete ventricosum. 

That reinforces what I've read on the cold tolerance of the East Cape blue Encephalartos versus longifolius.  The blue's can handle colder temps.  I'm fortunate in that I shouldn't ever test the cold threshold for my longifolius or East Cape blues; my challenge is to not let any palms block out too much sun, so they have enough heat to grow in the summer months.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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2 hours ago, annafl said:

It did not even blink after being placed in the garden.

Encephalartos kisambo is imo one of the nicest looking large green Encephalartos species.  I considered putting one in the new garden, but went with a nice 5 gallon sclavoi instead, which I planted this summer.  It's infrequent that I get into the backyard of my rental, so it's always exciting to see how things change.  I can completely miss a flush in between visits, so the cycads can change dramatically.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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35 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Encephalartos kisambo is imo one of the nicest looking large green Encephalartos species.  I considered putting one in the new garden, but went with a nice 5 gallon sclavoi instead, which I planted this summer.  It's infrequent that I get into the backyard of my rental, so it's always exciting to see how things change.  I can completely miss a flush in between visits, so the cycads can change dramatically.

Sclavoi is one of my favorites for sure.  I love its compactness and shape of the leaflets.  I know what you mean about changing dramatically. Once a flush gets going, every day it can progress so much!  I love watching them.

My husband corrected me that we planted the Kisambo in spring of 2010 (right after our memorably cold winter that year), and that it was in a full ten gallon instead of a 15 gallon.  He tends to remember things better than I do, but I'm still not sure he's correct!  In any case, it has grown considerably and we both agree, it didn't even blink!

In comparison, it seems ferox grows faster.  We bought a one-gallon plant in 2004 or 2005 and it coned for the first time in 2014.  That one is coning again- I will have to post it soon.  We were given 3 ferox seed in 2004 by Tom Broome, and 2 germinated.  We still have both.  One looks like it could cone in the next year or two, but the other looks like it belongs in a 3-gallon bucket!  It had a setback along the way (it was in an area that was not as well-draining as we initially thought), and was slow to recover.  Cycads are great plants for sure.

 

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On 11/21/2016, 5:25:04, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Update picture- the frost really damaged the new longifolius flush and only minor damage on the newest soft lehmanii leaves.  The longifolius looks about as bad as my 1g ensete ventricosum. 

My pictures didnt show up... temp was 32 with heavy frost . 

Here they are: first pic is lehmanii and the burned leave was facing north and had frost on it for a while. i think that is why it looks so bad. 

2nd pic is the poor longifolius and the newer flush is done for. This is a bummer as it was just transplanted and really needed a set of leaves. 

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20161122_192922.jpg

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10 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

 

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Oh no!  I'm sure they'll recover just fine, but it hurts to lose a little ground.  Will you protect them before the next frost?

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Awesome, can't believe this thread is still alive. Haven't posted in many many moons. Here is sago trimmed up b4 some rain we finally got

IMG_0742.JPG

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Braden de Jong

 

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14 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

My pictures didnt show up... temp was 32 with heavy frost . 

Here they are: first pic is lehmanii and the burned leave was facing north and had frost on it for a while. i think that is why it looks so bad. 

2nd pic is the poor longifolius and the newer flush is done for. This is a bummer as it was just transplanted and really needed a set of leaves. 

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They will recover. Just won't look pretty till next year. That is why I hate late flushs going into winter. I have one flushing right now that hasn't flushed in 2 years. I am hoping the frosts don't come early this year in sd. 

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4 hours ago, Palmzilla said:

Awesome, can't believe this thread is still alive. Haven't posted in many many moons. Here is sago trimmed up b4 some rain we finally got

IMG_0742.JPG

I like all the E princeps in the foreground... they are more exciting to me than the multi headed C revoluta.  Which Encephalartos are those in the background, with the very erect leaves, adjacent to the yucca?

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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5 hours ago, Tracy said:

I like all the E princeps in the foreground... they are more exciting to me than the multi headed C revoluta.  Which Encephalartos are those in the background, with the very erect leaves, adjacent to the yucca?

Hi Tracy, that Cycad next to the yucca is one of the Transvaal blue species, Encephalartos dyeranius. Here is a close up shot of it: 

IMG_0784.JPG

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Braden de Jong

 

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10 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

They will recover. Just won't look pretty till next year. That is why I hate late flushs going into winter. I have one flushing right now that hasn't flushed in 2 years. I am hoping the frosts don't come early this year in sd. 

That happen to me last fall with a new flush and a low of 31F killed all the new tender growth. Usually that doesn’t happen here since the new flushes usually happen way in advance of the cold season giving the growth plenty of time to harden off. 

 Still waiting for the first freeze here.  Like others have said, ”yours will be fine come next year”. 

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1 hour ago, Palmzilla said:

that Cycad next to the yucca is one of the Transvaal blue species, Encephalartos dyeranius.

You have a very nice specimen.  I'm growing dyerianus as well, but mine are both still infants.  One I got as a small band and it pupped multiple times before I finally got it in the ground this last year.  It won't have that same formal feel that a solitary caudex like yours has, but should still be interesting.   The other one is still solitary and was an offset that I acquired, so is a little more mature than the first.  As smaller plants, both of mine are showing a good deal of twist to the leaves, unlike your mature specimen.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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1 hour ago, Palmzilla said:

 

IMG_0784.JPG

Oh, and I had to comment on that great latifrons in the corner of this frame.  Looks like you must have the bases covered within the Encephalartos genus if these are representative of your collection.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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2 hours ago, Tracy said:

Oh, and I had to comment on that great latifrons in the corner of this frame.  Looks like you must have the bases covered within the Encephalartos genus if these are representative of your collection.

Hey Tracy. I think Braden has one of the nicest and one of the larger cycad gardens in so cal. Maybe he can post some pictures :)  It would be hard to name a species that he doesn't have because he has almost every one. About 80% of my collection was bought from him, at great prices too if I might add. He is the only person I know that might actually be crazier than me when it comes to my interest in cycads. Visiting his house is like going to a cycad botanical garden. It is cool walking around his garden because you can see what your own cycads will look like years down the road. Especially since cycads go through so many different stages of development (from seedling, to adolescent, to juvenile, to teenager, etc. 

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5 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

I think Braden has one of the nicest and one of the larger cycad gardens in so cal.

I will have to arrange to visit him some time.  I count myself fortunate to have visited Loran Whitelock's on the last Palm Society tour held there before he passed.  That was great to see and inspiring.   One can never have enough inspiration and learning.  20161119-104A4684.thumb.jpg.48067cfae37b

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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23 hours ago, Palmzilla said:

Awesome, can't believe this thread is still alive. Haven't posted in many many moons. Here is sago trimmed up b4 some rain we finally got

IMG_0742.JPG

Looking good Braden!

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7 hours ago, Tracy said:

I will have to arrange to visit him some time.  I count myself fortunate to have visited Loran Whitelock's on the last Palm Society tour held there before he passed.  That was great to see and inspiring.   One can never have enough inspiration and learning.  20161119-104A4684.thumb.jpg.48067cfae37b

Those cones are huge Tracy. Longifolius? I was lucky enough to visit his garden as well. Sure we probably crossed paths at that meeting. He had an amazing collection of palms and cycads. A visit I will never forget. You are correct when you say you can never have enough inspiration and learning. That is what makes it so much fun. 

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Our encephalartos ferox female is presently coning for the second time.  Two years ago she put out one huge cone.  This year she opted for three slightly smaller cones.  It is difficult to appreciate scale, but through the three photos maybe it can be appreciated.  We acquired this plant for $10 from a small nursery eleven years ago.  It was in a one-gallon pot.

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DSC_1915.JPG

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21 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

Those cones are huge Tracy. Longifolius?

Yes to the longifolius, and while the cones are large, I was having fun with a 15mm fisheye lens when I shot that.  The fisheye creates that super wide angle and curved perspective.  Speaking of Loran Whitelock's collection, my wife and I were at the Huntington this summer and were able to see some of his cycads in their new home.  I look forward to visiting them again as they acclimate to being transplanted.

 

2 hours ago, annafl said:

This year she opted for three slightly smaller cones.

Anna, it certainly adds some nice color to your garden when it is in cone!

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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I rounded all of the non-revoluta cycads up to put in the newer greenhouse this morning and I know this is a coning/flush thread but I wanted to post these few pictures of frost damage.

1. First up are the three ferox that I had outside in the open.  All of the newest leaves are of the same age but you can see the one that I purchased from Florida this year was far more sensitive to the frost.  The other two are California plants that I have had for three years now.  The one on the right is completely unscathed. You can also see the very sad longifolius in the background on the left. 

2. Second picture is a newer Altensteinii flush that I thought was hardened off, but it doesn't look like it was. 

3. Cycas Thourasii - this is a total light weight.  It too is a Florida plant that I bought with the Female Ferox.  This was such a non event here and to see this cycad almost defoliate really hit home with me just how amazing some climates in Southern California and Florida really are. 

20161125_104306.jpg

20161125_094111.jpg

20161125_104212.jpg

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21 hours ago, annafl said:

Our encephalartos ferox female is presently coning for the second time.  Two years ago she put out one huge cone.  This year she opted for three slightly smaller cones.  It is difficult to appreciate scale, but through the three photos maybe it can be appreciated.  We acquired this plant for $10 from a small nursery eleven years ago.  It was in a one-gallon pot.

DSC_1906.JPG

DSC_1911.JPG

DSC_1915.JPG

Nice ferox!

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On November 25, 2016 at 6:16:10 PM, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I rounded all of the non-revoluta cycads up to put in the newer greenhouse this morning and I know this is a coning/flush thread but I wanted to post these few pictures of frost damage.

1. First up are the three ferox that I had outside in the open.  All of the newest leaves are of the same age but you can see the one that I purchased from Florida this year was far more sensitive to the frost.  The other two are California plants that I have had for three years now.  The one on the right is completely unscathed. You can also see the very sad longifolius in the background on the left. 

2. Second picture is a newer Altensteinii flush that I thought was hardened off, but it doesn't look like it was. 

3. Cycas Thourasii - this is a total light weight.  It too is a Florida plant that I bought with the Female Ferox.  This was such a non event here and to see this cycad almost defoliate really hit home with me just how amazing some climates in Southern California and Florida really are. 

20161125_104306.jpg

20161125_094111.jpg

20161125_104212.jpg

Joseph, it's amazing how much a particular microclimate can change even within a couple mile distance. There are palms that I know people are growing near me that I would not dare grow, or have tried without any success. Cycas Thouarsii is one of them. Where I live they defoliate every year whereas people that grow them near the coast and closer look perfect year round. Plumeria is another one. I have to put it in the greenhouse every year (which is getting to be a pain in the butt given its size now). Unfortunately those are my wife's favorite plants at the house.  I have seen others growing them outside year round just a few blocks away. Maybe it's just me :(. All it takes is that one freeze and all of the zone pushing stuff is torched, but if you can acclimate some of it, definitely worth the effort. 

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10 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

 I have seen others growing them outside year round just a few blocks away.

It is all about those cold drainage areas.  Perhaps your property is in one of the lower spots and your neighbors who have success are just a little better situated.  In my Carlsbad neighborhood, we have a coastal canyon down the street which was always much colder.  Houses down the street which were closer and lower would regularly get frost.  Our house was right below a ridgeline, so we got more airflow.  I would walk our dog early mornings and feel the temperature change as I went down the street and sometimes see frost on grass, where there was none 100 yards up in my yard. 

In Leucadia, I have the drainage being down low, but at least have excellent south westerly exposure to quickly heat things after dropping down low.  Friday morning with the Santa Ana offshore winds, my low in the exposed area was 35 before the sun started heating things.  Not a sign of damage to my Cycas thouarsii, 2 of which are flushing right now.  It only gets that cold right before and during sunrise.

Regarding your plumeria, do they just defoliate, or get more serious damage if you leave them out over winter?  I've found that some varieties of plumeria will hold their leaves through cold much longer than others, independent of placement in the garden.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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13 hours ago, Tracy said:

It is all about those cold drainage areas.  Perhaps your property is in one of the lower spots and your neighbors who have success are just a little better situated.  In my Carlsbad neighborhood, we have a coastal canyon down the street which was always much colder.  Houses down the street which were closer and lower would regularly get frost.  Our house was right below a ridgeline, so we got more airflow.  I would walk our dog early mornings and feel the temperature change as I went down the street and sometimes see frost on grass, where there was none 100 yards up in my yard. 

In Leucadia, I have the drainage being down low, but at least have excellent south westerly exposure to quickly heat things after dropping down low.  Friday morning with the Santa Ana offshore winds, my low in the exposed area was 35 before the sun started heating things.  Not a sign of damage to my Cycas thouarsii, 2 of which are flushing right now.  It only gets that cold right before and during sunrise.

Regarding your plumeria, do they just defoliate, or get more serious damage if you leave them out over winter?  I've found that some varieties of plumeria will hold their leaves through cold much longer than others, independent of placement in the garden.

Unfortunately, I don't get much air flow during our cold spells. My house backs up to a steep bank and has a wood fence surrounding my property line. No air flow plus cold weather = frost. My plumerias completely defoliate every year no matter what (I have 2 different varieties at the moment). If I put them in the greenhouse, they will still defoliate but will make it through without any actual damage to the tree. The ones I have tried (1 gallon, 5 gallon and 15 gallon) in the ground all have died. Most of the branches turned literally black from frost burn. Actually, I was able to get a cutting off one of the only living branches off the 15 gallon. It is now the size of a small tree. This is the last year I will be able to fit it in my greenhouse. I will probably end up trying a different location in my yard. That is one of the cool things about plumeria, you can cut a branch, stick it in the ground and have a flowering plant/plants within a year or two. If u know of any frost tolerant plumerias please let me know. One of my favorite flowers and reminds me of my good old times at Kauaii. I am also open to any suggestions from anyone who has any tips protecting them from frost. 

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11 minutes ago, 5150cycad said:

Unfortunately, I don't get much air flow during our cold spells. My house backs up to a steep bank and has a wood fence surrounding my property line. No air flow plus cold weather = frost. My plumerias completely defoliate every year no matter what (I have 2 different varieties at the moment). If I put them in the greenhouse, they will still defoliate but will make it through without any actual damage to the tree. The ones I have tried (1 gallon, 5 gallon and 15 gallon) in the ground all have died. Most of the branches turned literally black from frost burn. Actually, I was able to get a cutting off one of the only living branches off the 15 gallon. It is now the size of a small tree. This is the last year I will be able to fit it in my greenhouse. I will probably end up trying a different location in my yard. That is one of the cool things about plumeria, you can cut a branch, stick it in the ground and have a flowering plant/plants within a year or two. If u know of any frost tolerant plumerias please let me know. One of my favorite flowers and reminds me of my good old times at Kauaii. I am also open to any suggestions from anyone who has any tips protecting them from frost. 

Here is a picture of the bank/hillside in my backyard so u can see what I was talking about. Any airflow probably passes right over my house from the properties above. Maybe try a plumeria on the hillside? What do u think?  do u think? 

image.jpeg

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12 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

Maybe try a plumeria on the hillside?

I think that would likely be the best place.  What direction does that hillside face?  The other consideration is that you don't want to place a plumeria that will grow too large and shade out any of your nice collection of cycads.   You have a nice selection of Encephalartos on that hillside.  Looks like good placement for them as they probably get excellent drainage on that slope.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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11 hours ago, Tracy said:

I think that would likely be the best place.  What direction does that hillside face?  The other consideration is that you don't want to place a plumeria that will grow too large and shade out any of your nice collection of cycads.   You have a nice selection of Encephalartos on that hillside.  Looks like good placement for them as they probably get excellent drainage on that slope.

Thanks Tracy. The slope faces north. The cycads absolutely love the hillside which consists mostly of decomposed granite and rock. I can neglect them and they never seem to mind. Plus, I get runoff from the neighbors above. I might try a couple on the slope. If they get too big, I can always cut them back. 

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My garden is also vulnerable to cold snaps for 2 months typically (dec and Jan). One thing I've noted is the genus encephalartos has a ton of variance per specie and not all clones are equal in terms of looks and cold tolerance. For example, some whitelockiis here are much more cold hardy than others while growing in same area in garden. I've already weeded out the ones with less cold Tollerance and kept the stronger clones that never burn. Maybe some evolved at higher peaks than others? Not all Cycads are created equal haha. Same applies to ferox for me. A giant green that is hardiest of them all is e. Tegulaneus. Dosent make leafs quite as long as a whitelockii but they are thicker and more stout...even fights the wind better. The 3 most wimpy encephalartos with cold are hildebranti, laurentianus, and kissambo. They need cannopy or a total frost free climate to look decent. Pretty much all the blues are very hardy with cold snaps and frost. If they are flushing the soft foliage can burn but usually not the case for me here. 

Braden de Jong

 

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