BRAZIL - April 2010

[palm student]

Hi Floridians,

Please start thinking about a Biennial in Florida. The last U.S. Biennial was in 1996 in California. I have been a member of the IPS since 1988 and I missed the meeting in Florida in 1992. The only gardens I have seen in Florida are Fairchild, Montgomery and by invitation, Charlie and Brenda Beck's garden. I would love to see some of the beautiful palms that we see in pictures on Palm Talk. There are palm lovers all over who would love to see what all of you have planted.

Sue R.

[Jeff Searle]

Sue,

I couldn't agree more. The last time it was held here, was the fall of 1992. It was my first biennial and even though Hurricane Andrew hit the Miami area prior to the biennial, it was still a very good and well run event. A few changes had to be made, but there was still plenty of gardens to visit. After Brazil, then Thailand will host in 2012 and after that, it's anyone's guess.

Jeff

[bgl]

A Biennial in Florida is definitely a great idea! Even though I seem to recall the last U.S. Biennial was in Hawaii in 2004... Oh, well....

[Moose]

Bo - are there any updates on potential Pre and Post tours to the Biennel in Brazil?

Kindest regards,

Ron.

[bgl]

Ron,

First, we need to get the basics in place for the Biennial, and come up with a budget and expected cost per attendee. That being said, the trip to Amazonas arranged by Andrew Henderson looks likely to be a PRE-tour. There's also the possibility of a post tour to Uruguay. Elena Baere (IPS Director from Uruguay) made a presentation when we met in Belize in March, and that should also be a very nice trip. Quite different from the Amazonas trip, obviously!

Bo-Göran

[SubTropicRay]

It's now thankfully less than a year away. I can hardly wait!

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

It's now thankfully less than a year away. I can hardly wait!

You are very fortunate, Ray, that you have something this special to look forward to! I'm too poor to afford both the time off work, and the funds needed, but maybe after Thailand, they'll pick a closer (and cheaper!) destination. That would be so very wonderful. I'll pray for that, indeed.

Paul

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Bo, do we have a handle on the cost yet? I've looked through the threads and I haven't noticed any cost discussions yet. Any sense of how it'll compare (cost wise) to the last one in Costa Rica?

[Kathryn]

The hotel looks great and I'm glad it is close to the beach! Craig and I have been working on our Spanish, but I don't think we will have much luck with learning Portuguese.

[SubTropicRay]

Kathryn, it's not that different from Spanish.

[amazondk]

Ray,

An interesting thing that I have noticed over the years is that Brazilians tend not to have much trouble understanding Spanish, but many Spanish speakers tend to have difficulty understanding much Portuguese. I speak both languages and when I am in environments where both are being spoken I tend to mix all kinds of things up. Like answering in Portuguese to the Spanish speaker and vice versa. And, then when I have English in the mix it gets worse.

dk

[Moose]

My spanish is limited, portuguese is nil. The main issue is that this Biennel has the potential to be a fabulous memorable event.

Yesterday I attended the Palm I.D. Party hosted by Tree Zoo Jerry in Deerfield . The attendees spent alot of time discussing the Brazillian Biennel. 11 months and counting, I can't wait.

Ron.

[Jeff Searle]

I was just curious, and maybe one of the board members can answer this. Recently, and on more than one occassion, friends have stated that they just might not be able to afford the biennial to Brazil, which is really inching it's way closer. And that they would skip Brazil,(choose one over the other) and wait until Thailand.

So, my question is, is there a minimum of attendees that must register to make "Brazil" happen? If so, what numbers are we looking at? This economy is just really awful now and I would hate to think worst case senario.

Jeff

[bgl]

Jeff,

That's not really an option that's been discussed (minimum number of participants needed). Looking back over the last 15 years or so, the least number of participants we've had have been around 115-120 (New Caledonia and French Riviera come to mind). New Caledonia probably because it was a bit more expensive than the average Biennial and the French Riviera because many IPS members probably perceived it as less interesting from a palm point of view. We had just over 180 in Costa Rica. My guess is that even in a 'worst case scenario' we're going to get more than 100 participants for the Rio Biennial. And hopefully many more than that. There are quite a few who really make this a priority and will attend, almost no matter what.

Bo-Göran

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Have fun carefree folks! You'll have a blast. Too bad us shleppers eeking out a meager living won't be there to celebrate the good life with y'all!

Paul

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Jeff,

That's not really an option that's been discussed (minimum number of participants needed). Looking back over the last 15 years or so, the least number of participants we've had have been around 115-120 (New Caledonia and French Riviera come to mind). New Caledonia probably because it was a bit more expensive than the average Biennial and the French Riviera because many IPS members probably perceived it as less interesting from a palm point of view. We had just over 180 in Costa Rica. My guess is that even in a 'worst case scenario' we're going to get more than 100 participants for the Rio Biennial. And hopefully many more than that. There are quite a few who really make this a priority and will attend, almost no matter what.

Bo-Göran

I'd like to make the affair a priority too, but anything more than a $2000.00 total for two people is out of the question.

Paul

[Borgy230]

Can we keep this on topic as to the happenings of the trip to Brazil? We all know its tough times out there and some are doing better than others, or some just have different priorities, so lets leave it at that and get back to talk about this trip!!!

I for one am very excited to be going on my first Biennial!!!

Rob

[KONADANTOM]

Aloha Palm Talk pals – the 2008 IPS Biennial in Costa Rica was my first, and I am grateful to have had that opportunity to meet so many wonderful Palm People and to see some amazing palms.

The April 2010 IPS Biennial in Brazil sounds very exciting. I’m reviewing air fares to get an idea of what that portion of the total trip expense might be for me, either with or without the Pre and Post Biennial excursions.

Today I did some air fare lookup searches on various sites including United Airlines, American Airlines, Orbitz, Travelocity and Expedia. As an example of what I found in my searches for air fare from Kona, today Expedia offered the best deals from Kona for either RT from Kona KOA to Rio GIG ($1,673.70), or RT “Multi-City” Kona KOA to Montevideo MVD to Rio GIG ($1,898.70).

For the 2008 Kona to Costa Rica trip there was not much variability in RT air fare price for the same itinerary / same travel dates when I searched many different airline booking sites on the same day over a period of several months before booking my trip. I was quite surprised today to see that some well-known airline booking sites I searched for their “best deal air fare price” are charging at least $2,000 more than Expedia is charging for the very same itinerary and the very same travel dates. Perhaps the chaotic global economy is the reason for this large price variation among different airline booking sites.

Do any of you who have done recent international travel and compared airline booking sites have suggestions for airline booking sites that currently seem to offer you the best prices for the same travel itinerary and travel dates? If so, please share the info with me.

Mahalo from Dan Ashley (KONADANTOM) on “the Big Island” of Hawai’i (Danni en “la Isla Grande” de Hawai’i)

[Kim]

Hi Dan,

I haven't checked yet for Rio, but I had better luck for Costa Rica going directly to the airline web site, in that case American. It was significantly cheaper than all prices offered on Orbitz and Expedia at the time. I don't know much about how to get great deals on airfare, hoping someone will weigh in with a magic formula.

Cheers,

Kim

[Jeff in St Pete]

I check airfares all the time since I have to leave Costa Rica every 90 days and I'm constantly looking for deals for my next trip out of the country. I have tried those discount airfare sites but I have always found a much better price by going directly to the airline website. When I'm getting ready to buy a ticket I check the airline websites mutliple times per day as fares can change at any time. I recently flew roundtrip between Costa Rica and Philadelphia and I paid $340 round trip. I just bought another roundtrip ticket to Tampa (for my next trip to the US) and I paid $287. In each case I bought the ticket directly from the airline and got a much better price than what some of the so called "discount" sites were offering.

[Moose]

Can we keep this on topic as to the happenings of the trip to Brazil? We all know its tough times out there and some are doing better than others, or some just have different priorities, so lets leave it at that and get back to talk about this trip!!!

I for one am very excited to be going on my first Biennial!!!

Rob

Rob - Your comments are well received!

Ron.

[Borgy230]

I just looked on expedia.com tickets from miami to Rio, roundtrip is about $650 a ticket!!! not too bad at all. Will be interesting to see how many people sign up. I fell the economy is starting to turn, at least in my business! I hope its the same for the rest!

Rob

[Kim]

I just checked flights to get an idea of costs: best deal on Expedia was on Continental, San Diego to GIG, $2,185, ouch! If I fly from Los Angeles, $1,851. Then I checked American; a longer flight by 2 hours, an extra stop, but only $1,132 San Diego to GIG. Probably worth the hassle. Wish we knew the final pre- and post-trip offerings and dates.

Does anyone know if Andrew Henderson will lead a pre- or post-trip on the Amazon? That would be so hot...

[bgl]

That's being planned as a pre-tour. Have to check for specific dates.

[amazondk]

Kim,

If you stop by here I will take you out to jump in the river. Brazil is a very big country and getting to Manaus can be done either going round trip from Rio, which is a 5 hour trip since you have to stop in Brasilia (3 1/2 hours non stop from Sao Paulo) or using an open jaw fare which would come into Brazil via Rio and leave via Manaus. There are three options from Manaus to the USA, Tam to Miami, Delta to Atlanta (daily for both), anc Copa via Panama 4 days a week. Tam has a fare called the Brazil airpass that is availalbe for non residents of Brazil with the cheapest fare allowing four stops. You can see more information here Tam Brazil Air Pass, This would be probably the cheapest way to come and go from Rio. The normal round trip air fares Rio MAO round trip run around 700 USD normally, depending on the season. But, sometimes there are specials which are cheaper. The non stop trip to Miami from Manaus is five hours and to Atlanta six hours. TAM has a code share agreement with United and in fact the MIA MAO flight also has a UA flight number. So, United may be an intersting option if Manaus is in the itinerary. In May with advance booking the fares from Miami to Manaus should be around 700 USD round trip which may even be a little more expensive than the round trip fares MIA RIO.

The Negro River is nearly at its highest point in May which is a good time to visit the flooded forest. You can go back many miles in a canoe into the forest this time of year.

But, it is still the rainy season, so it can rain a lot. Next year may not be as wet as this year. But, May was real wet here.

dk

[Kathryn]

I got my palm journal yesterday and it has great information about the biennial! I am so excited. I need to check airfare rates to make sure I am saving enough money.

[Kathryn]

I just checked flights from my usual hubs (Houston, Atlanta and Miami) and Miami is the cheapest - $630 on TAM. A round trip ticket from New Orleans to Rio via Miami is about $900, which is not bad at all. Houston was about $1100 and Atlanta about $1300.

I just realized the flight from Miami to Rio is over 9 hours. No problem though - the flight to Rio is overnight. I don't think I will be upgrading to business class - that would more than triple the ticket price. Maybe I can rack up some points between now and then.

[amazondk]

Kathryn,

The flight is actually a little shorter, Miami is 2 time zones different from Rio during the period of the year where neither place has daylight time. When Miami is on daylight Rio is not. So, the difference goes to 1 hours, which I think is the case in May.

dk

[All Habitats Tropicals]

Glad to hear the information for the Biennial has finally been released. It would be great if the information was also available on the website now for those of us who have to wait up to a month for the journal to make its way to our part of the world.

Kylie

Australia

[bgl]

Actually, it's still very basic information, with not too many specifics (except for the dates), but we should still make sure the IPS website has all the information that's in the Supplement of the current issue of PALMS. I'll make sure it gets uploaded as soon as possible. Thanks for alerting me.

Bo-Göran

[SW_FL_Palms]

Does anyone have any comments or experience with TAM Brazilian Airlines ?

They do have the best rate. American Airlines starts at $1001

Yes, I noticed TAM for $591 MIA to RIO (Departing on Friday April 16th, arriving Sat am.)

I just checked flights from my usual hubs (Houston, Atlanta and Miami) and Miami is the cheapest - $630 on TAM. A round trip ticket from New Orleans to Rio via Miami is about $900, which is not bad at all. Houston was about $1100 and Atlanta about $1300.

I just realized the flight from Miami to Rio is over 9 hours. No problem though - the flight to Rio is overnight. I don't think I will be upgrading to business class - that would more than triple the ticket price. Maybe I can rack up some points between now and then.

[SW_FL_Palms]

Post Trip to Iguassu Falls

Do do you know how many extra nights should we plan for to take the trip to Iguassu ?

[bgl]

Just sent you a PM, with a 'cc' to Elena in Uruguay. Elena is involved with the planning, so she should be able to help out.

Never flew TAM but they have a very new fleet. I believe Don in Manaus may be able to provide specific info and experience.

[Kim]

Kim,

If you stop by here I will take you out to jump in the river. Brazil is a very big country and getting to Manaus can be done either going round trip from Rio, which is a 5 hour trip since you have to stop in Brasilia (3 1/2 hours non stop from Sao Paulo) or using an open jaw fare which would come into Brazil via Rio and leave via Manaus. There are three options from Manaus to the USA, Tam to Miami, Delta to Atlanta (daily for both), anc Copa via Panama 4 days a week. Tam has a fare called the Brazil airpass that is availalbe for non residents of Brazil with the cheapest fare allowing four stops. You can see more information here Tam Brazil Air Pass, This would be probably the cheapest way to come and go from Rio. The normal round trip air fares Rio MAO round trip run around 700 USD normally, depending on the season. But, sometimes there are specials which are cheaper. The non stop trip to Miami from Manaus is five hours and to Atlanta six hours. TAM has a code share agreement with United and in fact the MIA MAO flight also has a UA flight number. So, United may be an intersting option if Manaus is in the itinerary. In May with advance booking the fares from Miami to Manaus should be around 700 USD round trip which may even be a little more expensive than the round trip fares MIA RIO.

The Negro River is nearly at its highest point in May which is a good time to visit the flooded forest. You can go back many miles in a canoe into the forest this time of year.

But, it is still the rainy season, so it can rain a lot. Next year may not be as wet as this year. But, May was real wet here.

dk

Just saw this -- great info Don. I will check it out. Jumping into the Amazon is on my 'to do' list, thanks!

[Moose]

Wear your anti- Pacu swim suit Kim

[amazondk]

Don´t worry Kim. Pacu are a relative of the piranha and are no threat at all. Piranhas occaision bit somebody, but not a problem either. You are in more danger of getting hit by a drunk running around the river on a jet ski than getting biten by a fish.

dk

[gavilan1]

From LAX, TAM is $1,841.80 USD, via JFK (UA codeshare). From LAX, COPA is $1,691.40 USD, via Panama City. Prices are RT, 2 pax economy. Honestly, if I had to choose, I'd rather make the stop-over in Panama for a couple of hours, than spend between 4 and 12 hours at JFK, which isn't getting me any closer to Brasil than from where I started hours earlier. Don, what vaccinations are recommended/required for travel into the Amazonas?

[Kathryn]

Doug - You may want to check into taking a flight on Southwest to Houston or Fort Lauderdale and then switching to another airline - you may have to take a cab from Hobby to Bush or Ft Lauderdale to Miami, but you could save $500 or more by doing so.

[gavilan1]

Kathryn, I might have misunderstood what you meant. I read here that HOU-GIG was running about $1,100 round trip, per passenger. I'd still have to buy two connecting round trip tickets from LAX to HOU, above and beyond the $1,100 per person for the US-Brazil leg. TAM from LAX to GIG is $920.90 per passenger ($1,841.80 round trip for two), and COPA from LAX to GIG is $820.70 per passenger ($1,691.40 round trip for two).

[amazondk]

Doug,

As to vaccinantions you will need yellow fever for sure. We do have endemic malaria and you might want to take malaria pills. As I live here taking the pills is worse than the disease, but that is not the case for short term visits.

As to Copa I think that this is a good option. If an Amazonas stop is in the trip Copa has 5 day per week service from Manaus to Panama. I have taken the flight and it is fine.

As to TAM. TAM is the largest airline in Brazil today and has good service. I fly TAM all the time. Their fleet is mostly new airbus equipment.

dk