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Bulnesia in z9a??


mnorell

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I have a 5' Bulnesia arborea (Verawood) which I bought for trial here in chilly z9a southwest Mississippi...just on a hunch, at least for root-hardiness, due to many posts around the internet that talk about the "surprisingly hardy" tree that hasn't taken damage in 9b freezes in Florida. I haven't yet found anyone saying "my Bulnesia tanked in the freeze!" and so I wonder if anyone can add, particularly with the Florida freeze just having passed, any info on defoliation and/or stem/trunk-damage figures for this beautiful tree that is creeping northward as it becomes increasingly popular in Southern and Central Florida. Also, any comments on growth rate and single-season flowering? That would of course be a major element in using it as a returning shrubby tree in 9a areas.

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Michael,

I was sent some seedlings a few years ago and have been growing them up to now they are 6 feet tall and ready to be tested in SoCal. I agree this could be a winner. I find it more attractive then T tipu, which is everywhere here. And its leaves are more attractive year round then Jacarandas which get ugly this time of year. So like you I am excited to test it.

I have a 5' Bulnesia arborea (Verawood) which I bought for trial here in chilly z9a southwest Mississippi...just on a hunch, at least for root-hardiness, due to many posts around the internet that talk about the "surprisingly hardy" tree that hasn't taken damage in 9b freezes in Florida. I haven't yet found anyone saying "my Bulnesia tanked in the freeze!" and so I wonder if anyone can add, particularly with the Florida freeze just having passed, any info on defoliation and/or stem/trunk-damage figures for this beautiful tree that is creeping northward as it becomes increasingly popular in Southern and Central Florida. Also, any comments on growth rate and single-season flowering? That would of course be a major element in using it as a returning shrubby tree in 9a areas.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Wow! Really great looking.

We have Tpuana tipu and Jacaranda mimosifolia growing here but never seen a Bulnesia arborea.

If anyone could send me some seeds, I would be glad to try growing it in my 9a Zone :rolleyes:

40270.gif

Greetings from Amman/Jordan

Simona

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Len-- Great to hear that your trees have put on some size!

Michael-- Not really sure how much cold these will take. Eric says that the one they have in Orlando at Leu is rather slow. Here in SoFla, it is moderately fast, especially in containers once it "trunks up". Seem to respond quickly to fertilizer.

Simona-- Been trying to track down seed here for a couple people. Seem to have been very few set compared to previous years. If I can get some before I leave FL, I'll save some for you. They sprout very quickly, should revel in heat.

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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Simona-- Been trying to track down seed here for a couple people. Seem to have been very few set compared to previous years. If I can get some before I leave FL, I'll save some for you. They sprout very quickly, should revel in heat.

Thank you very much in advance. I really hope you'll find some seeds for me too :rolleyes:

40270.gif

Greetings from Amman/Jordan

Simona

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Ken, how long ago did you send me those 4in seedlings? More then two years I think. They are only 6 feet tall. They are slow here too.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Ken, how long ago did you send me those 4in seedlings? More then two years I think. They are only 6 feet tall. They are slow here too.

Len--

Looks like it was August of '07. Six feet ain't bad in a year and a half...

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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Ours has been a slow grower. It is about 6ft tall, it was planted in summer 2001, was growing in a 3 gal container, about 3ft tall. In Jan. 2003 it had some cold damage, about a foot killed back after 1 night at 27F. Since then it hasn't suffered any cold injury and this years 30F didn't bother it.

There are some planted at Disney's Animal Kingdom and at Sea World. I was at Sea World on Sat. and the Bulnesia there are about 15-20ft tall and had about 75% defoliation from the cold a few weeks ago.

Here is ours, flowered last year for the first time.

img_0199.jpg

img_0200.jpg

  • Like 1

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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That's it?! it spent one winter in my garage and now one in the greenhouse. This is the problem with a lot of the flowering stuff, I do not document it like I do my palms and cycads. I should.

Also, my six foot is a single trunk twig. Nothing like Eric's. :) People have seen mine, nothing as nice. But I am also training mine to a single trunk tree. So trying to get it to about 8 feet before I allow it to branch.

.

Ken, how long ago did you send me those 4in seedlings? More then two years I think. They are only 6 feet tall. They are slow here too.

Len--

Looks like it was August of '07. Six feet ain't bad in a year and a half...

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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That's it?! it spent one winter in my garage and not one in the greenhouse. This is the problem with a lot of the flowering stuff, I do not document it like I do my palms and cycads. I should.

Also, my six foot is a single trunk twig. Nothing like Eric's. :) People have seen mine, nothing as nice. But I am also training mine to a single trunk tree. So trying to get it to about 8 feet before I allow it to branch.

.

Ken, how long ago did you send me those 4in seedlings? More then two years I think. They are only 6 feet tall. They are slow here too.

Len--

Looks like it was August of '07. Six feet ain't bad in a year and a half...

Len--

Only way I know is that was the day I opened my PayPal account. THOSE records I keep; plant records not so much... :hmm:

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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Okay, Eric, so you just sent me into yet another depression...sounds like it's glacially slow, takes 8+ years to bloom, and 28F is about the damage-line. Do you remember if yours recovered in decent time after the damage in 2003?

I've asked you before, but I'm wondering if you have any other ideas on summer/fall blooming trees that you've had success with in Orlando that might be trialed further north, with the possibility of growing back after damage and blooming the same year? I know in the past you've recommended Moringa, but it frankly doesn't look that showy to me from the pix I've seen, though I may break down and try it someday. It looks to me to resemble Melia in many ways and we have millions of them here. My Colvillea grew gorgeously to 12' last year but 24F killed it to the mulch-line, below which the bark is still good and green, so I expect it to re-sprout. I'm also trialing Cassia roxburghii, though I can't tell if it's alive or not after this winter. Cassia afrofistula will go out this year along with Peltophorum dubium, Erythrina humeana and Cassia leptophylla. Cassia bakeriana returns every year (to 6' so far) but I think it's an old-growth bloomer so I might as well yank it. Erythrina lysistemon also burned to the mulch-line and I think it's an old-growth bloomer as well, so zippo on that one. Am also trying to locate the strangely elusive Bauhinia forficata. Can you think of any others?

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Michael--

I'd try Tipuana tipu. Sort of tender when young, but can take to about 20F once it gets some wood caliper. Fast.

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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Fastfeat--

I have thought about trying Tipuana here, though they're rather on the gigantic side. I do like them but I have to admit that I'm a little blasé about them because I'm from SoCal and they're all over there. Nevertheless I do like them and have considered it...and may at some point resort to them. I'm trying more toward some of the heat-loving tropical trees that hate Cali's summer chill but that have the possibility of bouncing back from freezes...

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Albizia chinensis

Albizia sinaloensis

Alosia virgata

Bauhinia acuminata

Brachychiton bidwillii

Caesalpinia mexicana

Callistemon citrinus

Callistemon rigidus

Ebenopsis ebano (Pithecellobium flexicaule)

Erythrina arborescens

Erythrina x bidwillii

Leucaena leucocephala (weedy in many tropical areas but shouldn't be for you)

Parkinsonia africana (I just ordered seeds of this one)

Thevetia peruviana

Are you trying any of the hardier evergreen Asian Magnolia (many used to be Michelia, Manglietia or Parakameria)

I like Liriodendron chinense. It has leaves 2x as big as L. tulipifera and the flowers are supposed to be larger, too. We have a specimen growing well. Its about 15ft tall but hasn't flowered yet. Its a fast grower.

? Also, these are some nice hardy evergreen trees. Not showy flowering specimens but have a tropical look;

Acer coriaceifolium

Acer fabri

Acer oblongum

Bischofia polycarpa

Cinnamomum chekiangensis

Cinnamomum japonicum

Cinnamomum jensianum

Dendropanax trifidus

Elaeocarpus decipiens

Eriobotrya deflexa

Exbucklandia populnea

Ilex latifolia

Neolitsea sericea

Persea thunbergii (formerly Machilus)

Phoebe chekiangensis

Phoebe neurantha

Quercus glauca

Quercus myrsinifolia

Quercus polymorpha

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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It was maybe 4ft tall when the freeze knocked it back, so it went from 3ft to 6ft. in 5-6 years.

Okay, Eric, so you just sent me into yet another depression...sounds like it's glacially slow, takes 8+ years to bloom, and 28F is about the damage-line. Do you remember if yours recovered in decent time after the damage in 2003?

I've asked you before, but I'm wondering if you have any other ideas on summer/fall blooming trees that you've had success with in Orlando that might be trialed further north, with the possibility of growing back after damage and blooming the same year? I know in the past you've recommended Moringa, but it frankly doesn't look that showy to me from the pix I've seen, though I may break down and try it someday. It looks to me to resemble Melia in many ways and we have millions of them here. My Colvillea grew gorgeously to 12' last year but 24F killed it to the mulch-line, below which the bark is still good and green, so I expect it to re-sprout. I'm also trialing Cassia roxburghii, though I can't tell if it's alive or not after this winter. Cassia afrofistula will go out this year along with Peltophorum dubium, Erythrina humeana and Cassia leptophylla. Cassia bakeriana returns every year (to 6' so far) but I think it's an old-growth bloomer so I might as well yank it. Erythrina lysistemon also burned to the mulch-line and I think it's an old-growth bloomer as well, so zippo on that one. Am also trying to locate the strangely elusive Bauhinia forficata. Can you think of any others?

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Hi Michael,

Sorry, I'm not from Orlando but from 9a....& these are doing also very well:

Caesalpinia gilliesii

Cercis siliquastrum

Cercis canadensis 'Forest Pansy'

Tecoma stans

Brugmansia

40270.gif

Greetings from Amman/Jordan

Simona

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Simona--

Thanks very much for those recommendations...We do have many Cercis here (they're native), but I'll have to look up C. siliquastrum. And Tecoma does very well here as a dieback, I'm growing the orange hybrid as well as a red Tecoma garrocha this year. Brugmansia is also very common here as a dieback. I have a feeling we have simlar climates in having a chilly winter and hot summers...but we have much more rain (63 inches per year!).

Eric--

Thanks much for this list, I love Albizias and will looks up these other species. A strange genus in that it's so variable in hardiness. I'm raising some of the gorgeous flat-topped A. moluccana (which has changed names about six times since!) and while I don't think it will be hardy, it is supposedly the fastest-growing tree on earth (30' per year) and as such would make an interesting dieback perennial!!

I have been collecting some of the evergreens since you first told me about them, and I also really love a Michelia/Magnolia I just got, M. chapensis. Really lustrous-looking and supposedly hardy as it's been growing at Raulston since '97. It supposedly has a heady fragrance and resembles the more tropical Michelias. I also like the Acer coriaceifolium, which is just now leafing out beautifully. It did hold all its leaves this winter (in a pot).

I'm allergic to Callistemons (I'm from California, where they look like to me like ugly weeds except for C. viminalis), and I am planting a Thevetia thevetioides this year, which is one of my favorites and hopefully will work as a dieback perennial. I was lucky enough to get an Erythrina arborescens last year and it made it through the winter with no dieback, I have high hopes for this as it grows at 8000'+ in the Himalayas and really has beautiful flowers from pix I've seen. Do you grow it there?

I'm very interested in the Caesalpinias, as C. mexicana/yucatanensis (I need to figure out which one I have) has proven very hardy and just goes deciduous below 25F, it has never died back on me. My trees are now 15' tall. Tell me if there are any others you've tried that have shown themselves hardy, as I think there are many beauties in the genus, such as C. ferrea. Also I'm interested in Jacaranda puberula, a summer-flowering species from Brazil (flowers with leaves present, I think on new growth). Do you have any knowledge of it?

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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We planted 2 Albizia moluccana, now known as Falcataria moluccana, in summer 2007. They were about 3ft tall and now they are about 6-7ft so they aren't super fast growers here. They have tolerated low 30sF with no problems.

Caesalpinia ferrea is not a super fast grower or flower, either. Our specimen was palnted in June 2002, about 4ft tall. It is now about 15ft but never flowered yet.

Simona--

Thanks very much for those recommendations...We do have many Cercis here (they're native), but I'll have to look up C. siliquastrum. And Tecoma does very well here as a dieback, I'm growing the orange hybrid as well as a red Tecoma garrocha this year. Brugmansia is also very common here as a dieback. I have a feeling we have simlar climates in having a chilly winter and hot summers...but we have much more rain (63 inches per year!).

Eric--

Thanks much for this list, I love Albizias and will looks up these other species. A strange genus in that it's so variable in hardiness. I'm raising some of the gorgeous flat-topped A. moluccana (which has changed names about six times since!) and while I don't think it will be hardy, it is supposedly the fastest-growing tree on earth (30' per year) and as such would make an interesting dieback perennial!!

I have been collecting some of the evergreens since you first told me about them, and I also really love a Michelia/Magnolia I just got, M. chapensis. Really lustrous-looking and supposedly hardy as it's been growing at Raulston since '97. It supposedly has a heady fragrance and resembles the more tropical Michelias. I also like the Acer coriaceifolium, which is just now leafing out beautifully. It did hold all its leaves this winter (in a pot).

I'm allergic to Callistemons (I'm from California, where they look like to me like ugly weeds except for C. viminalis), and I am planting a Thevetia thevetioides this year, which is one of my favorites and hopefully will work as a dieback perennial. I was lucky enough to get an Erythrina arborescens last year and it made it through the winter with no dieback, I have high hopes for this as it grows at 8000'+ in the Himalayas and really has beautiful flowers from pix I've seen. Do you grow it there?

I'm very interested in the Caesalpinias, as C. mexicana/yucatanensis (I need to figure out which one I have) has proven very hardy and just goes deciduous below 25F, it has never died back on me. My trees are now 15' tall. Tell me if there are any others you've tried that have shown themselves hardy, as I think there are many beauties in the genus, such as C. ferrea. Also I'm interested in Jacaranda puberula, a summer-flowering species from Brazil (flowers with leaves present, I think on new growth). Do you have any knowledge of it?

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Eric--

Funny that your Albizia/Falcateria hasn't grown much. At Lyon Arboretum at Manoa in Hawai'i, Ray Baker told me they are unbelievably fast (that's where I got the 30' per year figure). They are spectacular there if you haven't seen them. Perhaps the fast growth is dependent on an understory position so it can "race" to an opening in the canopy.

I referred to the wrong Jacaranda, the one that flowers latest is J. macrantha. Ever heard of it? A totally different look, and the flower with the foliage, which is also different. Vertical tree. There's also J. micrantha, which occurs a bit further south but blooms earlier. Not sure if this is on old or new growth.

Is your experience with Markhamia lutea that it is strong at returning and quick-blooming after freezes? I saw in an old post a pic of one you had posted from Leu that I think regrew after the '89 freeze. Can you elaborate? I have one in the ground and think it will return...this one flowers on new growth and I love that big, glossy foliage. They do well in SoCal so assume they are pretty strong and adaptable.

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Michael--

At least three different Markhamia are in the trade as M. lutea--two in CA and a different one in FL. Apparently, M. hildebrandtii, M. platycalyx and M. lutea were separate, but are now lumped together. As someone who has grown the first two in CA, I can see significant differences; the one in FL trade is different still. Apparently the differences are not significant enough to warrant separate description :hmm::hmm:

There is a tree of "M. hildebrandtii" (the most common one in CA) planted at Fullerton Arboretum that has frozen to the ground at the lightest of frosts. I don't think it has EVER flowered, despite blooming on new growth.

I don't know how long the "FL variety" takes to bloom (# of months from freeze), but you might get some flowers in time before it gets cut back to the ground, a-la Tecoma stans. It's probably the best one to try, IMO.

Edited by fastfeat

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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Eric--

Funny that your Albizia/Falcateria hasn't grown much. At Lyon Arboretum at Manoa in Hawai'i, Ray Baker told me they are unbelievably fast (that's where I got the 30' per year figure). They are spectacular there if you haven't seen them. Perhaps the fast growth is dependent on an understory position so it can "race" to an opening in the canopy.

I referred to the wrong Jacaranda, the one that flowers latest is J. macrantha. Ever heard of it? A totally different look, and the flower with the foliage, which is also different. Vertical tree. There's also J. micrantha, which occurs a bit further south but blooms earlier. Not sure if this is on old or new growth.

Is your experience with Markhamia lutea that it is strong at returning and quick-blooming after freezes? I saw in an old post a pic of one you had posted from Leu that I think regrew after the '89 freeze. Can you elaborate? I have one in the ground and think it will return...this one flowers on new growth and I love that big, glossy foliage. They do well in SoCal so assume they are pretty strong and adaptable.

That M. lutea is an old plant. It must have been a good sized tree years back but was killed to the ground in '89. Since then it has froze back a couple times if it dropped below 28-29F. It would take it a couple years to grow before it would flower. The hardiness is similar to Spathodea.

We are also growing M. zanzibarica, it seems slightly hardier. M. lutea will drop leaves below 35 while M. zanzibarica doesn't.

M. lutea

61e0.jpg

M. zanzibarica

12a2.jpg

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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I'm not familiar with those Jacaranda. If you look thru Dr. Lorenzi's Trees of Brazil books there are some other nice species. Besides the common J. mimosifolia, we are growing 2 other species.

J. cuspidifolia

img_1359.jpg

J. jasminoides, this one is a shrubbier species and blooms through the summer months

img_0966.jpg

Eric--

Funny that your Albizia/Falcateria hasn't grown much. At Lyon Arboretum at Manoa in Hawai'i, Ray Baker told me they are unbelievably fast (that's where I got the 30' per year figure). They are spectacular there if you haven't seen them. Perhaps the fast growth is dependent on an understory position so it can "race" to an opening in the canopy.

I referred to the wrong Jacaranda, the one that flowers latest is J. macrantha. Ever heard of it? A totally different look, and the flower with the foliage, which is also different. Vertical tree. There's also J. micrantha, which occurs a bit further south but blooms earlier. Not sure if this is on old or new growth.

Is your experience with Markhamia lutea that it is strong at returning and quick-blooming after freezes? I saw in an old post a pic of one you had posted from Leu that I think regrew after the '89 freeze. Can you elaborate? I have one in the ground and think it will return...this one flowers on new growth and I love that big, glossy foliage. They do well in SoCal so assume they are pretty strong and adaptable.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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The M. lutea I am growing is hardy. It loses small branches in freeze, but does not die to ground. I hit 34 this year and it still has all its leaves. It is definitely a different plant then Eric's. His seems all yellow. Mine is yellow with red throats. Plus my leaves as skinnier and dark green.

M. zanzibarica I have in the greenhouse and will plant it out. From what I have been told, it is much more tender her in SoCal. It will die back in freeze.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Hi Eric,

do you have an overall shot of your J. jasminoides? I'm interested in it's dimensions. Also, according to Ken there might be a couple of versions of jasminoides floating around?

San Fernando Valley, California

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Its about 6ft tall. It was planted in 2005 and was appx 3ft when it went in. It is grafted onto J. mimosifolia. I have heard the grafted specimens tend to stay shrubbier.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Eric's Jacaranda jasminoides is the maroon color form. It remains shrubby; it's unclear if that is due to its genetics or due to to the grafting on a different species. Seed-grown J. jasminoides are much more vigorous trees, have deep blue flowers. I'd be curious to see the maroon form grafted on seedling J. jasminoides to see if it grows more vigorously.

Len, Michael-- Eric's Markhamia lutea is the Florida "form" I was referencing. Clearly different than what is grown in SoCal under the same name. I don't have any cold-hardiness info on M. zanzibarica. I don't think I've seen it in SoCal, though it is possibly at Quail BG in Encinitas? Interesting up close, but not particularly showy, IMO.

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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Ken, I got a seed grown one from Leon that was 6 inches tall last spring. It is now 8 feet tall and made it thorugh the winter without leaf drop in a 15 gallon pot. I am planting it this spring. So you might be right that seed grown is more vigorous. Maybe it will flower too this year. I saw Jesse Durko's plants in FL and they had the marron flower but were very leggy.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Eric, that's a bummer that yours would take two years to bloom after freezes. Hopefully mine will behave a little more agreeably!

I do know what you mean about the differences in the yellow Markhamias...I remember in California the forms you would always see growing had smaller leaves/leaflets, but I remember that they bloom on new growth and hence my hopes for it...they're definitely hardier than Spathodea there. A light freeze can cut Spathodea to the ground, whereas the California Markhamias can withstand a good deal of freezing without the trunk succumbing. The one I have here looks to be Eric's "Florida form"...with the large leaftlets. I got it from Top Tropicals. It was stressed from shipping and transplant (TT is notorious in my own experience for poor, heavy planting-medium and very weak root development in its plants) but it held most of its leaves down to about 27F against a SE-facing wall. 24F seems to have knocked it to the mulch line...I mounded it and I have removed the mound, which revealed two shoots emerging from the lower stem. So we'll see...

Significant differences according to Hortus Third:

Hildebrandtii has 7-9 lflts to 4"; lutea 7-11 to 7-1/2" long; obtusifolia 5-11 to 6-3/4" long; platycalyx 7-11 to 8" long

All of these have yellow flowers, but obtusifolia is striped w/chocolate brown; platycalyx is striped and spotted red.

lutea and obtusifolia have fruit to 22-24" long, obtusifolia's velvety-tomentose; platycalyx is to 4' long, prominently ribbed. (Hortus doesn't describe fruit on Hildebrandtii)

Edited by mnorell

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Len--

I think Leon's seed came from Flamingo Gardens tree. I saw seedlings at his and Peter's places--should be the big, vigorous tree. Here are a couple of (crappy) pics, but give you an idea of flower color, foliage texture. Tree was blooming in a 15g.

Jacarandajasminoides025.jpg

Jacarandajasminoides027.jpg

Jacarandajasminoides028.jpg

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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Thanks Ken. I really hope it is not a BIG tree. I planted it against my house thinking it would be more like a smaller tree for a patio or something.

Len--

I think Leon's seed came from Flamingo Gardens tree. I saw seedlings at his and Peter's places--should be the big, vigorous tree. Here are a couple of (crappy) pics, but give you an idea of flower color, foliage texture. Tree was blooming in a 15g.

Jacarandajasminoides025.jpg

Jacarandajasminoides027.jpg

Jacarandajasminoides028.jpg

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Ditto Len, I was under the impression that jasminoides was an 8-10 footer and not a big tree. I've got it in the wrong place if that's the case. How tall at Flamingo Ken?

San Fernando Valley, California

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I haven't been to Flamingo (yet), so not sure exactly how large it is. They do sell seed from the Flamingo tree(s?) on FNGLA.

The tree that I photo'ed was a 10' tree in a 15g at Black Olive East nursery in Davie, looked to be about 2-3 years old, quite vigorous. So I'm guessing it will be on par with J. mimosifolia.

The maroon form (grafted) is a much less vigorous, shrubby form. I'd say 8-10' would be about right for it.

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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Oppps.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Uh oh... time to dig up and move them.... I got some seeds of J. jasminoides - now I have plenty of little seedlings. Very fast growers... Not sure what the flower colour is. Can you only get the maroon ones from grafting? Doesn't it breed true from seeds?

Anyway, talking about Markhamia, I like this tree.. M. stipulata. I think it might handle cold better as it is growing in Brisbane. No frost though.

post-512-1236392360_thumb.jpg

Regards, Ari :)

Ari & Scott

Darwin, NT, Australia

-12°32'53" 131°10'20"

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Uh oh... time to dig up and move them.... I got some seeds of J. jasminoides - now I have plenty of little seedlings. Very fast growers... Not sure what the flower colour is. Can you only get the maroon ones from grafting? Doesn't it breed true from seeds?

Regards, Ari :)

Ari--

I doubt that the maroon form will come true from seed, but who knows? If you have seedlings from a maroon-flowered tree, they may be anywhere from blue to maroon or in between(?) I'd be curious to see a full-sized, seed-grown maroon tree sometime, if nothing else, to determine whether the dwarf stature of the maroon form is genetic or the result of grafting. You've got some space--plant out a few (dozen) and let us know in a couple of years. :winkie:

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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I just heard from Laura Tooley from Flamingo Gardens, where the J. jasminoides seed came from. Seems like even they're confused, as it is listed as up to a 15' tree in one description, then up to 25' in the next paragraph.

"JACARANDA JASMINOIDES

Purple Flower Jacaranda

FAMILY: Bignoniaceae

ORIGIN: Brazil, Bolivia

TYPE/USES: evergreen shrub or small tree

SIZE: up to 15'

LIGHT REQUIREMENTS: full to partial sun

WATER REQUIREMENTS: average

MIN. TEMP. : low 30's

FLOWER : most of the year

Deciduous or evergreen shrub or small tree, 10-25 feet tall. This dwarf jacaranda blooms when still small, in 1-3 gal pot. Good choice for small gardens or patio can be grown as a house plant near a bright window or in a greenhouse. Young trees are frost sensitive (to 25F, -3C) and need protection on the coldest nights. Adult trees are resistant to 20F ( -7C).

San Fernando Valley, California

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I will find out soon enough. Mine is next to the house and starting to branch. I think by fall I will know how big it can get.

I just heard from Laura Tooley from Flamingo Gardens, where the J. jasminoides seed came from. Seems like even they're confused, as it is listed as up to a 15' tree in one description, then up to 25' in the next paragraph.

"JACARANDA JASMINOIDES

Purple Flower Jacaranda

FAMILY: Bignoniaceae

ORIGIN: Brazil, Bolivia

TYPE/USES: evergreen shrub or small tree

SIZE: up to 15'

LIGHT REQUIREMENTS: full to partial sun

WATER REQUIREMENTS: average

MIN. TEMP. : low 30's

FLOWER : most of the year

Deciduous or evergreen shrub or small tree, 10-25 feet tall. This dwarf jacaranda blooms when still small, in 1-3 gal pot. Good choice for small gardens or patio can be grown as a house plant near a bright window or in a greenhouse. Young trees are frost sensitive (to 25F, -3C) and need protection on the coldest nights. Adult trees are resistant to 20F ( -7C).

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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  • 3 years later...

Time for update. My Markhamia zanzibarica is about 20 feet tall and really flowers profusely now. It is a great small tree and quite attractive.

post-649-0-19648200-1342499070_thumb.jpg

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Oh yeah, both my Bulnesia's are dead. Never made it past one winter.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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