Questions about Chamaedorea metallica - split leaf

[marcus]

Hi,

there are three leaf variations of Chamaedorea metallica:

- entire leaf (common form),

- partially split leaf

- and split leaf.

I want to know a litte bit more about the split leaf forms. How old a plant must be to show the leaf type?

And whats about the propagation of the split leaf forms? If plants grown from seeds of,

for example a split leaf female plant, show also the split leaf?

Thanks in advance,

Marcus

[PalmGuyWC]

Marcus,

I developed the split C. metalica years ago. I had a female that had only 2 or 3 splits in some of the fronds. I later located a very split leaf male in S. Calif. and collected the pollen. I hand pollenated the female with the pollen and got about 50% split leafed plants. I selected only the most split leafed ones from the 2nd generation and crossed them, and got almost 100% split fronds. It takes about 4 years from germination until they start blooming.

Dick

[Jeff Searle]

Marcus,

There's really only two forms, the solid leaf and split leaf. So yes, if you have males and females of the split leaf form, your chances of getting split leaf seedlings will be greater. With one parent holding split leaves, you will have even a less chance.

Jeff

[FRITO]

cfkingfish (christian has a nice example of a C. metallica that was puchased as a normal leaf variety then starting going split leaf. hopefully he chimes in.

[DoomsDave]

I'd say that about 20% of C. metallicas are split leaved. Dang, PGWC, you are a fanatic . .

[PalmGuyWC]

Fanatic? Fanatic?? How so? I was growing split leafed C. metallicas 30 years ago. They are still hard to come by. I have 6 growing in a huge container that survived the "89 freeze. I must have brought them inside. They are taller than my head now and kind of neglected. I should try to get more seeds, but they have to have the female flowers stripped first, and it's tedious. I moved them out to be washed off a couple of years ago and left them in the sun and they got burned. They are recovering. They have to be hand pollenated to get a good seed set.

Dick

[Eric in Orlando]

We had a triple trunked, splitleafed form donated several years ago. The leaflets are very evenly spaced.

[cfkingfish]

Eric-

I have to say it looks like you do some excellent work up there in Orlando. I can't believe I haven't made the journey. Here is my split leaf. I bought it in a clay pot with 4 other C. metallicas, but this one in the middle was splitting. It was rough separating them as the root balls were entangled, but it worked out. It was burned sometime in the past in the sun.

[marcus]

@all,

thank you very much for all the informations!

Marcus

[DoomsDave]

Fanatic? Fanatic?? How so? I was growing split leafed C. metallicas 30 years ago. They are still hard to come by. I have 6 growing in a huge container that survived the "89 freeze. I must have brought them inside. They are taller than my head now and kind of neglected. I should try to get more seeds, but they have to have the female flowers stripped first, and it's tedious. I moved them out to be washed off a couple of years ago and left them in the sun and they got burned. They are recovering. They have to be hand pollenated to get a good seed set.

Dick

You act as though being a fanatic is a bad thing!

To put it another way: You're da man, oh Mr. Fanatic suh!

[PalmGuyWC]

Well.......I guess that's a compliment, and thank you, but most of us palm nuts are fanatics. Just look at all the burned out palms in Florida now, and our time is coming, but please God, not now. I want to walk under my Parajubaea TVT by the end of next summer.

Dick

[tjwalters]

I passed up a pot of 3 I saw at a local nursery several years ago and have never seen them since. Should have bought them. Do seeds of these ever become available? I don't recall ever seeing them, but would love to get some.

[SubTropicRay]

Anybody have a male split leaf to mate with my female?

[Darold Petty]

I was fortunate to receive a gift split-leaf from Dick many years ago. As you can see, it has grown somewhat since then!

This palm is in the original container, a plastic pot 15cm dia. x 18 cm tall (6x7"). The trunk is 203 cm tall (80"), and the crown is 30cm (12"), for a grand total of 251 cm (99"), equalling the room height. The trunk has 128 leafbase scars. This species is one of the few that can be 'mossed' to induce adventitious roots higher up. Then the top can be cut off and re-started shorter. At first I planned to do that, but as time passed, I found it more interesting to see how high this palm could go! Another one of similar size has died, so I will re-start this one soon.

(Besides, it's getting too tall for my greenhouse!

[Jonathan]

I was fortunate to receive a gift split-leaf from Dick many years ago. As you can see, it has grown somewhat since then!

This palm is in the original container, a plastic pot 15cm dia. x 18 cm tall (6x7"). The trunk is 203 cm tall (80"), and the crown is 30cm (12"), for a grand total of 251 cm (99"), equalling the room height. The trunk has 128 leafbase scars. This species is one of the few that can be 'mossed' to induce adventitious roots higher up. Then the top can be cut off and re-started shorter. At first I planned to do that, but as time passed, I found it more interesting to see how high this palm could go! Another one of similar size has died, so I will re-start this one soon.

(Besides, it's getting too tall for my greenhouse!

That plants hilarious...it belongs in a Circus!

[PalmGuyWC]

Darold,

That must be tallest C. metallica on Earth. Maybe a canidate for a donation to the Conservatory in Gold Gate Park? You have taken excellent care of it, but I'm sure it's ready for some new soil. I distributed quite a few back when I was hand pollenating and getting a lot of seeds. I know some are in Miami and Sicily and there should be some more scattered around in N. Calif., but I don't know where. I lost most of mine in the '89 freeze.

Dick

[tjwalters]

I was fortunate to receive a gift split-leaf from Dick many years ago. As you can see, it has grown somewhat since then!

This palm is in the original container, a plastic pot 15cm dia. x 18 cm tall (6x7"). The trunk is 203 cm tall (80"), and the crown is 30cm (12"), for a grand total of 251 cm (99"), equalling the room height. The trunk has 128 leafbase scars. This species is one of the few that can be 'mossed' to induce adventitious roots higher up. Then the top can be cut off and re-started shorter. At first I planned to do that, but as time passed, I found it more interesting to see how high this palm could go! Another one of similar size has died, so I will re-start this one soon.

(Besides, it's getting too tall for my greenhouse!

Now, that is one cool palm! Do you know the gender? I'm pretty sure it would fit in my sun room.

[Darold Petty]

hello Tom, it's a female!

[tjwalters]

hello Tom, it's a female!

Rats! I was hoping you could send some pollen. (I guess you could always just send seed! )

[Gileno Machado]

Awesome tallie, Darold !! Where did you hide it when I visited your greenhouse?

Here's one from Hermínio, in Rio de Janeiro:

[Darold Petty]

BUMP this old thread with good news !

I had always heard that Chamaedorea metallica was amenable to 'air layer' or 'marcott'. That is... forcing adventitious roots high on the stem. Most C. metallica plants show tiny bumps at the nodes or even roots 1 or 2 cm. long. I decided to try this, (especially since the palm was now too tall for my greenhouse!

I used a manufactured plastic rooting pot. www.rooterpot.com. This worked really well, the only caveat is that the stem must be vertical for this pot design. I left the rooter pot on the palm for a year. The I removed the pot and severed the original stem at the site of the new roots. It has now been 4 months since separation, the top of the palm has grown a complete new leaf, which is larger and more full than previous ones. I attribute this to the increased nutrition of fresh potting medium.

Has anyone done this with another species? (I'm sorry Dick can't read this,... although perhaps he can !)

[The Silent Seed]

Wow - I've never known there was a split leaf form of this species! It's one of my favorite palms - I have a "pet" one that I've had for a few years now - it flowers on and off, but does not grow upwards - not that I'm trying to encourage it to do so - That skyscraper metallica is indeed hilarious! I would not call its leaves "entire" though - they are definitely fishtailed. Maybe this is what the OP meant by "partial" however all of them have been fishtailed that I've seen.

Dick - it's a honor to meet the actual creator of the wonderful split leaf form - albeit I have never seen one unfortunately.

I'll second the inquiry for seeds - count me in, if any are ever available again.

Edited December 16, 2014 by santoury

[DoomsDave]

I was fortunate to receive a gift split-leaf from Dick many years ago. As you can see, it has grown somewhat since then!

palms_043__Medium_.jpg

This palm is in the original container, a plastic pot 15cm dia. x 18 cm tall (6x7"). The trunk is 203 cm tall (80"), and the crown is 30cm (12"), for a grand total of 251 cm (99"), equalling the room height. The trunk has 128 leafbase scars. This species is one of the few that can be 'mossed' to induce adventitious roots higher up. Then the top can be cut off and re-started shorter. At first I planned to do that, but as time passed, I found it more interesting to see how high this palm could go! Another one of similar size has died, so I will re-start this one soon.

(Besides, it's getting too tall for my greenhouse!

So, Darold, how's the Giant?

[Darold Petty]

Dave, the 'giant' was air-layered as shown in the photographs. I reduced its height from 7 feet to 3 feet.

[tjwalters]

Nice. I'm doing this now (air layering) a C. adscendens - not because it was too tall, but because the lower trunk was damaged (rodents) and it was just barely hanging on. Doing much better now.

Do you have a male C. metallica split-leaf, and do you ever get seed from the female?

[Darold Petty]

Tom,

I do have a male split-leaf, also a gift from the late Dick Douglas. It is too tall and I intend to air-layer it also.

I have never obtained seed. C. metallica and the related species of sub-genus Eleutheropetalum have waxy pollen, not dust-like. It is difficult to transfer.

Dick did hand-pollinate these species. He used a magnifying lens with a circular fluorescent lamp to observe the flowers, He said that if was difficult to recognize anthesis, and that the pistillate flowers were receptive for only a few days. I believe he used a dental pick to remove the petals and to transfer the pollen.

I am not nearly well-organized enough to duplicate his efforts! Perhaps in the future !

[Phoenikakias]

So there are two kind of difficulty for a hand pollination. First to discover when flowers are mature and second to transfer pollen from the male to the female flowers. Could perhaps a hand pollination also succeed through spraying (on to receptive female flowers) water mixed with blended male flowers?

[The Silent Seed]

Darold - when you air layered and subsequently chopped the giant - did you leave the base to see if it would resprout?

[WestCoastGal]

Darold very cool update on a neat palm. Any chance the old rooted section will put out new growth? Also curious how much growth you anticipate getting each year on the newly rooted section.

I'm thinking Dick is up there with a big smile on his face. It was nice seeing old posts of his when reading through the thread.

I'm growing three C. microspadix right now that we bought as seedlings at a N Cal IPS meeting that came from Dick's seeds. I think of Dick and his contributions every day when I walk past it. Nice way to be remembered I think. Not to divert the thread but we probably should be repotting ours soon, still in the little starter pot. Assume my C microspadix has the same or similar requirements as the C metallica. Any advice on what kind of soil to use? How much larger of a pot should be used? Also curious how long it takes to flower to see what we have (males/females). Thanks.

[DoomsDave]

Dave, the 'giant' was air-layered as shown in the photographs. I reduced its height from 7 feet to 3 feet.

Duly noted.

And, the Giant grew a new head? Instead of Andre, now it's Andre and andre . . . . .

Hmm. Maybe get a house with a tall tall foyer to test how tall they can get?

I'll bet the limit will be surprising . . .

[Darold Petty]

Chamaedorea metallica, as a single- stem species, cannot resprout a growth point from the lower section of stem. I discarded the older, lower half of the original plant.

Debbie, will send you a PM about C. microspadix.

[DoomsDave]

Chamaedorea metallica, as a single- stem species, cannot resprout a growth point from the lower section of stem. I discarded the older, lower half of the original plant.

Debbie, will send you a PM about C. microspadix.

So now it's And/re . . . .

[Jeff Searle]

Just to be clear, the split leaf form is not from cross pollination, they come from seed. And from seed that were collected off a normal metallica.

[DoomsDave]

Just to be clear, the split leaf form is not from cross pollination, they come from seed. And from seed that were collected off a normal metallica.

It's a variation among metallicas, like red, brown, or blond hair (for example) is for people. I suspect it's a straight recessive trait, though experiments with a lot of plants will be needed to see for sure. Unless someone's already done the work.

[DoomsDave]

BUMP this old thread with good news !

I had always heard that Chamaedorea metallica was amenable to 'air layer' or 'marcott'. That is... forcing adventitious roots high on the stem. Most C. metallica plants show tiny bumps at the nodes or even roots 1 or 2 cm. long. I decided to try this, (especially since the palm was now too tall for my greenhouse!

I used a manufactured plastic rooting pot. www.rooterpot.com. This worked really well, the only caveat is that the stem must be vertical for this pot design. I left the rooter pot on the palm for a year. The I removed the pot and severed the original stem at the site of the new roots. It has now been 4 months since separation, the top of the palm has grown a complete new leaf, which is larger and more full than previous ones. I attribute this to the increased nutrition of fresh potting medium.

Has anyone done this with another species? (I'm sorry Dick can't read this,... although perhaps he can !)

As for other species, I've had elegans fall over and root on the ground, then grow straight up again. I'm not sure that all of the single trunkers will do that, though. Might be interesting to experiment, on, say, tepijilote, nationsiana, oblongata, etc.

Ooh! Oo! I feel another thread coming on . . . .

[The Silent Seed]

That's a shame Darold - it would have been interesting as an experiment, to see if it would do something unexpected.

[tjwalters]

Tom,

I do have a male split-leaf, also a gift from the late Dick Douglas. It is too tall and I intend to air-layer it also.

I have never obtained seed. C. metallica and the related species of sub-genus Eleutheropetalum have waxy pollen, not dust-like. It is difficult to transfer.

Dick did hand-pollinate these species. He used a magnifying lens with a circular fluorescent lamp to observe the flowers, He said that if was difficult to recognize anthesis, and that the pistillate flowers were receptive for only a few days. I believe he used a dental pick to remove the petals and to transfer the pollen.

I am not nearly well-organized enough to duplicate his efforts! Perhaps in the future !

I've managed to pollinate mine on a few occasions using a paint brush jammed into a few male flowers and then jammed into several female flowers. Repeat daily for several days - nothing fancy. Might be worth trying with yours if they are flowering at the same time.

My 4' tall female currently has a few fruits forming. Here it is in 2008 with quite a few fruits:

[Josh-O]

Tom,

I do have a male split-leaf, also a gift from the late Dick Douglas. It is too tall and I intend to air-layer it also.

I have never obtained seed. C. metallica and the related species of sub-genus Eleutheropetalum have waxy pollen, not dust-like. It is difficult to transfer.

Dick did hand-pollinate these species. He used a magnifying lens with a circular fluorescent lamp to observe the flowers, He said that if was difficult to recognize anthesis, and that the pistillate flowers were receptive for only a few days. I believe he used a dental pick to remove the petals and to transfer the pollen.

I am not nearly well-organized enough to duplicate his efforts! Perhaps in the future !

I've managed to pollinate mine on a few occasions using a paint brush jammed into a few male flowers and then jammed into several female flowers. Repeat daily for several days - nothing fancy. Might be worth trying with yours if they are flowering at the same time.

My 4' tall female currently has a few fruits forming. Here it is in 2008 with quite a few fruits:

nothing like doing a bit of brush work eh??

[realarch]

Have enjoyed this thread and actually learned something new too. Darold, that palm before the air layering, must have been quite the conversation piece. Chuckle everytime I look at it.

Never took the time to read up on this little gem and when I see them for sale here there are multiples in the pot. I had always thought they were clumping, but not so.

I have two pots, they live on the lanai, there is a split leaf in one of the pots and the other is all entire. I'm assuming the high humidity here keeps the leaves from dropping, I've had these for a couple of years now and they hardly ever lose leaves. Anyway, I love em.

A small grove of them in a shady spot would be choice.

Tim

[Pal Meir]

I had also many Ch. metallica with perfectly pinnate leaves:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/9934616705/in/set-72157636010262104

And I’ve seen even taller Ch. metallica palms in 2002, grown in the Botanical Gardens of Berlin, but they don’t have split leaves:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/palmeir/9862504113/in/set-72157635727352474

I had the same problems of too tall palms with Ch. elegans, which I had to cut 3times within 40 years, because they were too tall for my living room (2.80 m).