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Cocothrinax argentata hardiness


Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)

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I'm searching for cold tolerance information on Cocothrinax argentata.  Will it take a frosty night or two each winter?  The Encyclopedia of Cultivated Palms says it'll take a zone 9B climate.  I'm trying to verify that.

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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Coccothrinax argentata was native as far north as Lake Worth, Palm Beach County.  It seems decently hardy as far north as Brevard.  I'm told Dr. Brown's Valkaria Gardens has an old plant.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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(spockvr6 @ Oct. 14 2006,21:55)

QUOTE
Dave Witt reports they will take lower 20's without a problem.

We were discussing this just yesterday.  It's surprising how cold-tolerant the argentata is - at least as much so as the T. morrissii.

Or I should say, the palm formerly known as T. morrissii.

St. Pete

Zone - a wacked-out place between 9b & 10

Elevation = 44' - not that it does any good

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Thanks guys.  I may try both up here in the arctic part of FL.  Certainly I'll have to protect from time to time, but they stay small so it's possible.

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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Keith,

C. argentata is an pretty safe bet in zone 9b.  Dr. Young's Tampa plant has been there since the 1960's.  Mine has seen 28F with ZERO damage.

Ray

Tampa, Interbay Peninsula, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10A

Bokeelia, Pine Island, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10B

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Anybody know a seller who can ship a good sized (say 15 gal) C. argentata up to Macon, Georgia?  I have a nice microclimate I'd like to try about three of these plants in.

And, btw, how much should I expect to pay for them?  Jungle Music says they want $175+ each for their 15 gallon C. argentata palms.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Macon, Georgia, USA

32 deg. 50' 10" N, 83 deg. 38' 40" W

Temperate, USDA Zone 8a

AHS heat zone 8/9 (avg. 120 days/year over 86F/30C)

Elevation: 325'

Alan's Palm & Garden Page

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Out of curiosity - are you planning on keeping it in a container, or do you have a greenhouse for winter protection?

I snuck a peek at your website, btw - very impressive!  Didn't know there was much palm-growing in Macon and didn't realize there were sabals there, although they're found fairly far north in the coastal areas.  Have you seen/heard of the Sabal Birmingham?  From the one pic I saw, it looks just like palmetto - only it doesn't grow nearly as tall.  

Sorry - didn't mean to hijack, your questions were regarding C. argentata.   I hope you can find one - they're beauties.  At least you have the Jungle Music option.  I don't think they can ship to FL yet, and I'm still hunting for a C. argentata myself.

St. Pete

Zone - a wacked-out place between 9b & 10

Elevation = 44' - not that it does any good

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Hi SunnyFl,

Thanks for the kind words about my palm page.  Glad you enjoyed it.  Now that I am actually looking for them, I am finding a good number of mature palms in this area of the world.  As you can see, there are at least 5 species that are hardy here,  and Washingtonias are either hardy or grow well as perennials, depending on whether they are protected.  Local nursuries are starting to carry C. humilis, now, in addition to the more common palms, and in another 15 years or so we might see some impressive specimens here.

I don't think there are any Sabal birminghams here, though I am not entirely certain.  They're not sold in local nurseries, nor have they ever been to my knowledge. Sabal palmetto, by all accounts, is completely hardy and naturalized here, cropping up as weeds in the downtown area, and it is this fact that makes me want to try out C. argentata.

Based upon Dave Witt's "Cold Tolerance information for PALMS IN CENTRAL FLORIDA" and based on all the other information I've been able to gather, I think there's a chance I might be able to find a cultivar of C. argentata that will grow in this area in a good microclimate with protection needed only on the coldest nights.  At least, that's what I'm hoping.

Macon, GA is a solid zone 8 (dead in the middle of 8 on the newer maps), and for a long time it was believed that S. palmetto, for example, would not grow here.  In fact, that's not true.  There are quite a few old S. palmettos growing here that have survived since the 1930s.  The old wisdom has proven to be wrong, and I am theorizing that before the last ice age S. palmetto (and perhaps C. argentata too) had much larger ranges across Florida and the Southeastern US.  The ice age pushed these species into South Florida and the Carribean.  As the earth warmed and the ice receded, S. palmetto began to slowly reclaim some of its old range.  Almost certainly, Middle Georgia was a part of that range.  I say this because S. palmetto naturalized here quite well.  Soil, humidity, and temperature are all sufficient to sustain a naturalized population of S. palmetto.  C. argentata may have extended over a similar range prior to the last ice age.  Perhaps it simply lacks the necessary vector to spead north.  Perhaps the fact that it is such a slow grower has impeded its northward spead into its former range.  Who knows?  Either way, I want to find out.

So, I plan to get three good-sized plants and try them out.  I won't plant them this Winter.  I'll keep them on the patio in containers and let them acclimate to the cold a bit, bringing them in only when there's a chance of frost.  Then, in the spring, I plan to put them in the planter you see in the picture below.

taylor_garden007.jpg

This location gets direct and early morning sun in the Winter, and there's a nice wall and a nearby house to provide protection from westerly and north-westerly winds.  I'll probably provide some additional protection through the palms' first full winter outside, and then, after that, if they're healthy enough, I will leave them unprotected.  One or all of them may die, but I'll be able to get some good data on what these palms can do in a nice microclimate in z8a.  If I can get just one of the three to live and thrive unprotected, I will be elated.  If I can then get that palm to produce viable seed, I'll be ecstatic.

Sorry to ramble on so long, but that's my plan at this point.  Comments and suggestions are, of course, welcome.

Macon, Georgia, USA

32 deg. 50' 10" N, 83 deg. 38' 40" W

Temperate, USDA Zone 8a

AHS heat zone 8/9 (avg. 120 days/year over 86F/30C)

Elevation: 325'

Alan's Palm & Garden Page

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And if you get viable seed from that palm, you might send me some  :;): J/K

I think your theories about the spread of S. palmetto are very interesting, and quite plausible.  Good point about the argentata, having previously had a wider range then being unable to spread northward due to its slower growth, as compared to the sabal.  Also, could seed viability be a factor?  If there's a sabal in a mile radius, you get seedlings coming up everywhere - I don't think that's the case with the argentata.  I doubt it's nearly as prolific - and therefore wouldn't be as successful in spreading its populations.

I'm not sure how it would take the Macon winters.  I've never heard of it being able to take temps into the teens, although there are reports of it taking frost.   Btw, I have a copy of Dave Witt's cold-tolerance observations - it's a great reference; he did a lot of very in-depth work on it.  It would be interesting to see what you find out when you try the argentatas up there - the sure way to determine a palm's maximum cold-tolerance would be to try it out.  Thrinax (soon-to-be Luccothrinax or Hemithrinax) morrissii is an example - it was thought to be a zone 10 palm, but people in Central FL have had success with it into the low 20s.  So it's at least a zone 9b.

I hope you find that the argentata succeeds there - be sure to report your findings, will be very interesting.  You might want to keep one of the three protected in winter - argentatas are very attractive palms.

Very nice planter, btw - good and roomy, and very attractive brickwork.

St. Pete

Zone - a wacked-out place between 9b & 10

Elevation = 44' - not that it does any good

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I agree.  They're beautiful, little palms.  I like the fact that they're tiny--good for urban spaces.  I have a city lot.  Not a lot of room.  One, juvenile S. palmetto, for example, would eat up the entire planter.  S. Palmetto is nice when it's got some trunk on it, but as young palms they are obnoxiously large.

Truth be told, if I can find an extra, I want one C. argentata just for my office.

And I'll be sure to relay my findings.   In all likelihood, they'll all die.  But I haven't heard of anyone trying this palm up here, and it undoubtedly can take frost, so we'll see.

Macon, Georgia, USA

32 deg. 50' 10" N, 83 deg. 38' 40" W

Temperate, USDA Zone 8a

AHS heat zone 8/9 (avg. 120 days/year over 86F/30C)

Elevation: 325'

Alan's Palm & Garden Page

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These are tough palms and I hope they will make it that far north but I think the teens will do them in. I hope I'm wrong and if so please tell us and show pics please. Here's mine. This palm had frost on it last year and two fronds had 20 percent burn.IMG_0003-1.jpg

David

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Hi Davidl,

Beautiful palm you have there.  Honestly, I'm hoping for sufficient genetic diversity within the species to find a zone 8b palm.  I hope to try three and see if one is particularly hardy.

Thanks for the reply.  I'll be sure to keep everyone posted.

Macon, Georgia, USA

32 deg. 50' 10" N, 83 deg. 38' 40" W

Temperate, USDA Zone 8a

AHS heat zone 8/9 (avg. 120 days/year over 86F/30C)

Elevation: 325'

Alan's Palm & Garden Page

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I think prolonged freezes into the low 20s is about their limit. The only 2 Coccothrinax argentata I had ever seen growing around Orlando in the past were killed in the big 12/89 freeze after 2 nights of 19/20F. Both of these were planted after the big freeze in 1/85. One was about 5ft tall, the other was at least 10ft. They had been growing healthily for a couple of freezes but then were whopped in 12/89 and they never recovered. Be prepared to protect them. Have you thought about using Trithrinax brasiliensis (acanthacoma) instead? It is a very hardy palm, the only drawback is the spiny trunk.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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If i could find this palm in nurseries here i certainly would try it here.....

  How slow :( are they from seed ????

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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Here's mine. Been growing in mostly shade since a one-gallon seedling in 1984. Sorry about the poor view, its the slim trunk between the fatter Sabal palmetto trunks. Seems pretty happy here in St. Pete.

2006novdsc4931024argentcg7.jpg

Tom
Mid-Pinellas (St. Petersburg) Florida, USA

Member of Palm Society 1973-2012
Gizella Kopsick Palm Arboretum development 1977-1991
Chapter President 1983-84
Palm Society Director 1984-88

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Even with the sabal in the foreground I can see how tall it is - very nice!  And it's 22 years old?  

It sure seems like a perfect palm for our area, likes the limey soil and apparently the climate.  I did see a few seedlings on sale at Fairchild, but doubted they'd grow much in my lifetime :D  

Verrry nice tropical yard btw!

St. Pete

Zone - a wacked-out place between 9b & 10

Elevation = 44' - not that it does any good

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  • 1 month later...

I found this little palms (1.3meter) in a nursery here in Brazil.

They cost R$80.00 each. (+- US$ 33.00) What do you think, shall I try them here? Can I grow them under canopy or do they like full sun?

(How is the hardiness of C.argentata compared to a king palm?)

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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Greetings Alberto,

If you can grow A. cunninghamiana, then you should be able to grow C. argentata.  Riffle & Craft recommended full sun.

Jason

Skell's Bells

 

 

Inland Central Florida, 28N, 81W. Humid-subtropical climate with occasional frosts and freezes. Zone 9b.

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Alberto,

Coccothrinax argentata is probably hardier than Archontophoenix cunninghamiana.  It's native as far north as Palm Beach County, Florida, which has a history of severe freezes, and appears fully hardy as far north as Cape Canaveral--meaning plants have survived freezes that kill citrus trees.  Eric in Orlando's summary of the situation is very accurate.

Alan,

Nice bed.  Yucca gloriosa??  Hardy bananas??  Macon has a fantastic native flora--Hydrangea quercifolia, a popular ornamental in places like Portland, Oregon, is native to rich forest slopes, where it may grow alongside the beautiful, extremely rare Silene polypetala.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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(Jason in Orlando @ Jan. 04 2007,23:25)

QUOTE
Greetings Alberto,

If you can grow A. cunninghamiana, then you should be able to grow C. argentata.  Riffle & Craft recommended full sun.

Jason

Kings are marginal here in my microclimate.........

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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A tiny specimen I have of C. argentata, which languished in a small pot for over a year, finally went into the ground under a cherry-laurel canopy just before the cold weather set in, and survived three very cold nights (25.5/22.8 advective/25.7) with a light and partial mulch of leaves, and it came through perfectly, or at least it appears so at this point a month later.

A nice thing about this palm is that its small size makes it manageable enough to protect it, at least for a while, when one of those infrequent, truly bad freezes comes around.

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Natchez seems 'way far north.  If you can keep your plant very well sheltered from cold, it should put up with nearly anything else.  In Florida, this palm inhabits sandy beaches and pine rocklands.  In both settings, it's subject to fire, and the pine rocklands have a certain lack of soil.  The Florida Keys also have a remarkable lack of rain--Key West gets something like 35" a year, and winters are very dry.  But cold isn't much of an issue.  For a tropical fan-palm look, I wonder if Acoelorraphe might be a better choice.  Its broad distribution just barely gets into Florida, where it's very narrowly distributed in the wild.

Florida silver palm--Institute for Regional Conservation

Coccothrinax-Flora of North America

Everglades Palm--Institute for Regional Conservation

Acoelorraphe-Flora of North America

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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It is a total risk, but this little palm cost me but a couple of bucks, and I got tired of seeing it looking so haggard in that pot, so I just popped it into a sheltered well-drained spot and am letting it be a guinea pig. I am indeed going to try Acoelorraphe, as I hear they returned from single digits in the '89 freeze in Texas and other Gulf-state locations. Guihaia is at the top of my list, Plant Delights say theirs survived 9F without a scratch, but I can't find a source for any...if you know of any let me know if you'd be so kind. In any event Trachies seem close enough in appearance to Coccothrinax for this dang-cold winter climate. Trachycarpus do grow beautifully here...but oh I love that Coccothrinax gauze-wrap effect, so much prettier than Trachycarpus in that regard. When I grew Coccothrinax in L.A. they just puttered along, never looked all that good in the relative coolness of summer. And at least that's one thing that we don't have to worry about here in the lower Mississippi Valley... :)

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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for the record, my palm geek roommate &  I each bought beautiful 7 gallon specimens in the Florida keys for $100 each.  The nursery is on the Cuba side of US1 at mile marker 24.  The nursery, called SeaPalms Nursery,  is owned by a recently widowed lady named Lisa.   She has a nice selection of Caribbean natives, along with a broad selection of non-Caribbean species.  The address is 51 Dobie Street (really is on US1) Summerland FL 33042 (305) 743-3981.  We intend to give this species a try here in our modest microclimate.  No doubt, we'll drop some more cash at Seapalms Nursery on the next trip too.

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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  • 11 years later...
On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2006‎ ‎2‎:‎35‎:‎17‎, Dave-Vero said:

Coccothrinax argentata was native as far north as Lake Worth, Palm Beach County.  It seems decently hardy as far north as Brevard.  I'm told Dr. Brown's Valkaria Gardens has an old plant.

Sadly Dr. Brown is no longer with us. Had the pleasure visiting his Valkaria Garden and meeting him. A true Renaissance man.  

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

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Dr. Brown's business continues, of course without his house and garden.  Valkaria Gardens does wonderful setups at seasonal plant sales.  Peters Nursery in Vero Beach is also doing the plant sale circuit with cordylines and of course crotons.  

It was quite a privilege to spend a long weekend touring Coccothrinax and Copernicia in central Cuba with Duanny Suárez, January a year ago.  My latest info on travel sanctions indicates that informal visits like that little trip are still legal, but of course participants must keep detailed records.  

I think that here in Vero Beach, we have lots of opportunities for Coccothrinax despite the threat of damage in really bad winters.  Same for Copernicia.  

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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