Royal palm

[galveston1602]

I was speaking to a palm supplier today and he mentioned that he was shipping (i think he said) 40 royals from 25-40gals for an outside planting in tyler tx(7b) Something about a new office building...

am I loosing my mind or will these palms be dead in a years time?  

anyone near Tyler have any idea where these are going?   id be interested in seeing some pics especially after the first winter.

I suspect this is going to be a massive palmacide.

[Jim in Los Altos]

To those forty Royals, R.I.P. in advance if Tyler is anything lower than a 9b.

[spockvr6]

I think is just about the most expensive set of annuals I have ever heard of!

[DoomsDave]

Hum a dirge . . . .

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Tyler's much nearer to Dallas than to the coast, where they're marginal, too.  It's just too dang cold in TX.

dave

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

We see Royals and Coconuts used all along the mid atlantic coast as annuals.  Maybe that is what they are doing.  Certainly Tyler is too cold for Roystonea.  In the arctic freezes of the 1980's, even Trachycarpus and Sabals died.  TX has been experiencing very warm winters for the recent past, but even then, Royals wouldn't have survived even one winter in Tyler.  They have hard freezes in Tyler even during the mildest winter.

[Guest]

Perhaps the royals are going into an interior atrium in Tyler?  But that sounds like a very large number for that type of use.  There is a somewhat new baseball stadium in my home town of Peoria, IL, zone 5b, which has a number of new large queen palms planted outdoors along the entry area every spring as annuals.  I guess where there is plenty of $$ available to bring in the people the lives of the palms are not a consideration.  Those queens do look great, especially by the end of summer.

[ghar41]

We're still searching for that one Roystona to make it here in N. Ca.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they somewhat of a challenge in Sunset zone 23?  

The ones I've seen at the Huntington in Pasadena don't look all that great to me, the trunks appear too thin.

The best Roystonea I've seen west of Florida is the one at Louis Hoopers house in Whittier/LaHabra.  It's magnificent.  

Louis is a premier palm grower.

[galveston1602]

we have some very nice royals around here.  unfortunately i think they number less than 50 total....  I think they will survive fine, it just seems we cant get them...

they were reportedly being used outdoors....

I cant see anyone spending that kind of $$ ~400-500 each

thatd be 20k worth of annuals?

[NBTX11]

(galveston1602 @ Sep. 09 2006,00:57)

QUOTE

I was speaking to a palm supplier today and he mentioned that he was shipping (i think he said) 40 royals from 25-40gals for an outside planting in tyler tx(7b) Something about a new office building...

am I loosing my mind or will these palms be dead in a years time?  

anyone near Tyler have any idea where these are going?   id be interested in seeing some pics especially after the first winter.

I suspect this is going to be a massive palmacide.

The royals will be dead in a years time, unless they have and extremely warm winter or they are provided some extreme protection.

That said, Tyler isn't a 7b.  It's an 8b.  Some winters may even be 9a.  You have to go to extreme north texas/panhandle to start getting into zone 7, so there's a good deal of cold hardies than can be grown there, but royals isn't one of them.

http://www.arborday.org/media/zones.cfm

[elHoagie]

(ghar41 @ Sep. 10 2006,14:06)

QUOTE

We're still searching for that one Roystona to make it here in N. Ca.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they somewhat of a challenge in Sunset zone 23?  

The ones I've seen at the Huntington in Pasadena don't look all that great to me, the trunks appear too thin.

The biggest one at the Huntington had a trunk as large as any I've seen in the tropics.  Unfortunately, they dug it up last winter to renovate the mansion and I think it's probably dead now.

I've had no problems growing Roystoneas here, but they've only been in the ground since summer 2004.

[Joe palma]

Seems like a huge waste to be throughing around royals of this size as annuals. Even at a best winter 9a in Tyler, your really pushing it. Protection would be needed and even then, not something I would try.

elHoagie - I was wondering what happend to that Royal at Huntingtion next to the mansion. It was pretty dam nice looking at one time and, not the fatest, but cerntianly not thin. The ones at Balboa park look very nice.

In So Cal, I feel the one thing that makes them look not so nice, frond wise, is the lack of humidity. I've got 2 huge ones, in 25g containers, I am final going to permantly locate by summers end.

[ghar41]

(elHoagie @ Sep. 12 2006,13:43)

QUOTE

[

The biggest one at the Huntington had a trunk as large as any I've seen in the tropics.  Unfortunately, they dug it up last winter to renovate the mansion and I think it's probably dead now.

I've had no problems growing Roystoneas here, but they've only been in the ground since summer 2004.

I was there this past summer so maybe that's why the Roy's looked so bad.

I'll have to make it down to Balboa on my trip next summer.  An aged, well grown Roystonea is truly a magnifient tree.

Any other public Roy's in So Cal worth viewing? I thought I'd see some at Quail B. G....did I miss em?

[Joe palma]

Having grown up in South Florida (Hollywood) w/ the streets rowed w/ regia/elatas in my neighborhood, they have always been my favorite. They seemed so tall and you couldn't put your arms around them. And they do make a watemelon sound when you knock on them. Massive beauty.

I think there are ones at Quail, but I don't beleive they are as big as the ones at Balboa. Having a brain fade on this.....

Jerry Anderson has some nice ones as well.

[galveston1602]

Im not one to argue zones but,

any place that has 0's and negatives on the record page (some less than 20 yrs old)

cant be a 8b....

heck if your calling tyler an 8b I must be a 10b and we both know thats not true

Either 7b, 8b or 9a id like to know what happens to these trees as i dont see any possible way they will survive through 1 winter.  and to top it off they are going in about now (late summer)

[ruskinPalms]

These royals are as dead as the royal in my back yard here in Ruskin, FL (rated 9B by the way by the pessimistic 1990 USDA map). They might last a year or 2, but come on, it is at a latitude north of Savannah, Ga and really has not geographical advantages to stop a blast from our friends in Canada. I hope I am wrong...really!!!

[GREENHAND]

tyler is zone 8 b my parents live close to there. Royals would be toast by janurary. my lake property is 80 miles south and royals  would be risky there . the brown area on the map is zone 8 it covers a large area. but i would like to have a royal  to experment with.

[BobbyinNY]

These royals are as dead as the royal in my back yard here in Ruskin, FL (rated 9B by the way by the pessimistic 1990 USDA map). They might last a year or 2, but come on, it is at a latitude north of Savannah, Ga and really has not geographical advantages to stop a blast from our friends in Canada. I hope I am wrong...really!!!

Maybe we can put up a Huge wall to stop them..... Just think about how Much warmer all the US would be  if it wasn't for CANADA

[NBTX11]

(galveston1602 @ Sep. 13 2006,01:36)

QUOTE

Im not one to argue zones but,

any place that has 0's and negatives on the record page (some less than 20 yrs old)

cant be a 8b....

heck if your calling tyler an 8b I must be a 10b and we both know thats not true

Either 7b, 8b or 9a id like to know what happens to these trees as i dont see any possible way they will survive through 1 winter.  and to top it off they are going in about now (late summer)

Tyler is a solid 8b.  Gauranteed.  Check out the climate website in my signature.  The following stats were attained from this site.  These are 56 year minimum average lows at the following locations.  Much greater than the 1990 or even 2004 zone maps.

Dallas:  56 year average min: 16.2

Waco:  56 year average min: 18.7

Shreveport: 56 year avg min: 18.8

Zone 8b is 15-20F

Tyler not listed but it is almost in the middle of these 3 locations, so you can assume it is 17-18 degrees F.

By the way, I do believe Galveston is a borderline 10a climate if you look at the long term (50-100 year) stats even though the 1990 map lists zone 9.

[NBTX11]

(GREENHAND @ Sep. 13 2006,09:17)

QUOTE

tyler is zone 8 b my parents live close to there. Royals would be toast by janurary. my lake property is 80 miles south and royals  would be risky there . the brown area on the map is zone 8 it covers a large area. but i would like to have a royal  to experment with.

I think that's the super conservative 1990 map that was based on about 12 years and it shows tyler as an 8a.  If you look at the longer term stats, it would actually come out to an 8b.

[spockvr6]

(syersj @ Sep. 13 2006,10:19)

QUOTE

(galveston1602 @ Sep. 13 2006,01:36)

QUOTE

Im not one to argue zones but,

any place that has 0's and negatives on the record page (some less than 20 yrs old)

cant be a 8b....

Tyler is a solid 8b.  Gauranteed.  Check out the climate website in my signature.  The following stats were attained from this site.  These are 56 year minimum average lows at the following locations.  Much greater than the 1990 or even 2004 zone maps.

Dallas:  56 year average min: 16.2

Waco:  56 year average min: 18.7

Shreveport: 56 year avg min: 18.8

Zone 8b is 15-20F

Tyler not listed but it is almost in the middle of these 3 locations, so you can assume it is 17-18 degrees F.

By the way, I do believe Galveston is a borderline 10a climate if you look at the long term (50-100 year) stats even though the 1990 map lists zone 9.

Galveston brings up a valid point at the differences between averages and extremes.

What good is 20/30/40/50 years of averages if every 5-10 years something 15-20F below that average rolls through?  These events will still define the landscape to a very large degree.

Down here, the mindblowing record setting events are roughly 10F below the normal averages and these events still pretty much define the longterm landscape.  The difference between low 20'sF and low 30's F is quite large when it comes to crownshafted palms

All of this does not deny averages however and I have no idea what the extreme event frequency is for Tyler...maybe someone can look it up  If the really bad ones are every 10 years or so, Id say its worth trying things in line with the averages (and not the extremes) as a decade is a long time to enjoy the plants/palms.  This is my theory on what I plant anyway

[NBTX11]

Larry, you are correct.  An area that is an 8b in TX, can have a brutally cold all time record low near zero F and in some cases below zero.  Granted that would be once a century or so.  But you could expect 10-15 F every 15-20 years, so that would really limit your long term prospects to only the real hardy stuff.  Short term (under 10 years or so) you could grow some more expirimental stuff.  Although royals would not be one of them, unless you live in someplace like Galveston, Corpus, or the Valley.