Butia lallemantii

[kelen]

In 2004 after I knowed and observed this species I spoke with a teatcher about the possibility its to be a new species.

He said to me that I was deceived. After 2 years, he described this species.

I didn't see termites in this soil, only ants. To me, the trunck also grow on direction of ground, the roots never be

in the end of trunk, they are around of the end (for the side). So, during the growth of the trunk, the soil go to high.

Kelen,are you saying that you discovered B.lallemantii and that you was mislead ? That was not fair!!!

Kelen,what I was trying to tell that it only looks like (IT LOOKS LIKE) the palms grow on the top of termites. In fact I think it´s soil that was pulled out by the subterranean trunks and roots....(?)

(Kelen ,eu quero dizer que as palmeirinhas parecem crescer sobre ´´cupins´´porque as raízes e troncos subterrâneos empurram a terra para cima. Na verdade não são cupins,somente se parecem

Alberto, Yes I spoke with my teacher about this specie, I thought that was other specie (new specie) and he said that I was been deceptive (Eu havia comentado sobre a possibilidade desta planta ser especie noca com um prof da Universidade e ele disse q eu estava enganado), this specie was called Butia paraguayensis. After two years he desbrible its and said me that there was found a new specie (2 anos depois ele descreveu a epecie e veio me avisar q havia encontrado uma nova espécie).

I undestand what you said about the soil around trunk, is this!

Abraço!

[kelen]

Kelen,

I will add my name to the guys that are wanting seed!! Great pics!!! I would love to cross it w/ Syagrus, and you have seen the result!!! Did you harvest them?? I sure would have!! That pic w/ the Syagrus in the background is amazing, i would love to go there some day, a very interesting place!!

Hi!

I will try collect Butia lallemanti seeds, the seeds used to be attact by insects almost 100%, a few is viable.

The butia habitat stay 3 hours distant here.

Alberto, There are some diference morphologic between then, some have leaves like a grass, other with large pines and both can be blue or don't. The fruits can be yellow, red, big or small. The trunck can be single but generally is cluster.

My english isn't good, sorry.

Regards

[Gileno Machado]

Grande Kelen,

Sometimes the teachers are wrong... (às vezes os professores erram...).

Congrats for helping to ID B. lallemantii new palms in habitat...

Bem-vindo ao Forum.

[kelen]

Like a grass

[patrics]

In 2004 after I knowed and observed this species I spoke with a teatcher about the possibility its to be a new species.

He said to me that I was deceived. After 2 years, he described this species.

I didn't see termites in this soil, only ants. To me, the trunck also grow on direction of ground, the roots never be

in the end of trunk, they are around of the end (for the side). So, during the growth of the trunk, the soil go to high.

Kelen,are you saying that you discovered B.lallemantii and that you was mislead ? That was not fair!!!

Kelen,what I was trying to tell that it only looks like (IT LOOKS LIKE) the palms grow on the top of termites. In fact I think it´s soil that was pulled out by the subterranean trunks and roots....(?)

(Kelen ,eu quero dizer que as palmeirinhas parecem crescer sobre ´´cupins´´porque as raízes e troncos subterrâneos empurram a terra para cima. Na verdade não são cupins,somente se parecem

Alberto, Yes I spoke with my teacher about this specie, I thought that was other specie (new specie) and he said that I was been deceptive (Eu havia comentado sobre a possibilidade desta planta ser especie noca com um prof da Universidade e ele disse q eu estava enganado), this specie was called Butia paraguayensis. After two years he desbrible its and said me that there was found a new specie (2 anos depois ele descreveu a epecie e veio me avisar q havia encontrado uma nova espécie).

I undestand what you said about the soil around trunk, is this!

Abraço!

[Alberto]

Kelen, the population that Nigel and I saw last january,have a big diversity of forms,probably because of hybridization with B.paraguayensis. I think that the photo of B. lallemantii of Lorenzis book is also one of this hybrid forms (?)......

The ´´original´´ B.lallemantii is probably this grass like palms.....

Edited October 19, 2008 by Alberto

[kelen]

Olá Alberto,

I don't know about this, I think is same specie. Butia paraguayensis don't has in this local, to me they are 2 different B. lallemanti forms.

[Alberto]

Kelen´s Butiagrus photos are on page ! If this would be cultivated in good garden soil they would look nice in a few years, I think!

[mjff]

So is this one? Now that I've had it in the ground awhile it has gotten quite blue. This picture is from two years ago.

[mjff]

Here are some closeups.

[Alberto]

Yours is certainly not a Butia lallemantii. This palm was rediscovered only for a few years,so it´s unlikely that there are mature palms outside Brazil. But nevertheless a beatifull palm.Is it suckering or muliplanted?

[mjff]

Yours is certainly not a Butia lallemantii. This palm was rediscovered only for a few years,so it´s unlikely that there are mature palms outside Brazil. But nevertheless a beatifull palm.Is it suckering or muliplanted?

The seed for mine was collected by a US collector (former President of Ventura College, name escapes me, but Phil Bergman knows) in South America if I recall correctly over 20 years ago. There are only 2 in the US that I know of, the other is in CA. From what I can tell it branches underground. I have examined some dead trunks and found them to be attached to the adjacent trunk underground with no roots on the dead trunk. It appears that even at this age it has not flowered yet. I'm hopeful that now that it is established in the ground it will flower soon.

[Alberto]

Yours look more like a Syagrus sp.

[freakypalmguy]

It appears to have some armament on it, Martin?

[mjff]

Yours look more like a Syagrus sp.

If it is a Syagrus, it is the cold hardiest one in existence. It was completely undamaged by 12 hours below 15F with a low around 12F.

[mjff]

It appears to have some armament on it, Martin?

It has teeth on the petioles, but they are connected by a strip of brown paper-like material, and are pretty small. The teeth are only notable because of the color difference (green) versus the material connecting them (brown), unless of course you remove the brown part.

[freakypalmguy]

I also see a "V" shape and insertion angle on the leaflets that leans towards Butia, not to mention the armament.

[mjff]

I also see a "V" shape and insertion angle on the leaflets that leans towards Butia, not to mention the armament.

There isn't much question in my mind that it is a Butia, the question is which one? If it was a single trunked palm, it could easily be mistaken for a B. paraguayensis. I have one about the same size less than 20 feet away, and it looks very similar to it.

[Nigel]

Does it have small new trunks emerging ? If so it would be clumping and if not probably lots of plants planted together.

[mjff]

Does it have small new trunks emerging ? If so it would be clumping and if not probably lots of plants planted together.

It has grown additional trunks since I've had it (about 2 years now), and the clump is composed of a variety of different size trunks.

[Alberto]

One of that mistery clumping Butias that Gaston showed us in the past....???

But where the seeds were collected? South america is bigggggg!

[buffy]

Martin: First. I hate you for having a clumping Butia..... Second. The picture I've seen of clumping Butias don't show much of an emerging trunk. Do you think yours may just be a mutant of a single trunking Butia, and not one of the clumping species.....I still hate you for having a clumping Butia.

[Kailua_Krish]

Martin: First. I hate you for having a clumping Butia..... Second. The picture I've seen of clumping Butias don't show much of an emerging trunk. Do you think yours may just be a mutant of a single trunking Butia, and not one of the clumping species.....I still hate you for having a clumping Butia.

Totally agree with the hate I've been wanting to say it but was waiting for someone else to say it first so I didnt look bad! If ever get seeds off of it Martin please consider selling them to other PalmTalkers!

-Krishna

[mjff]

I really have no idea what it is other than being fairly certain it is some type of very cold hardy Butia. I keep hoping it will flower someday which should help in identifying it, but thus far it isn't cooperating. You can be assured when it does that I will collect every seed it produces, and market them and the seedlings through my nursery, San Angelo Cold Hardy Palms and Cycads. Haters will be placed at the bottom of the list. I will also try to hybridize it. I have 3 species of Allagopteras that I can try, Syagrus, and Jubaea. I'm thinking the Allagoptera hybrids would be most interesting.

[Alberto]

Martin,it looks your mistery Butia has it´s growth restricted to ,.......I don´t know exactly, a container, or pavement stones...would it not be better to late it escape from this ´´ cage´´? Easier to water and fertilize also....

[mjff]

Martin,it looks your mistery Butia has it´s growth restricted to ,.......I don´t know exactly, a container, or pavement stones...would it not be better to late it escape from this ´´ cage´´? Easier to water and fertilize also....

The pictures I posted are from 2 years ago, and were taken right after I planted it. It came in a 24" box, and it had probably been in there more than 10 years. It is free now, but the new trunks grow slowly, so I'm sure it will take awhile for it to lose it's square shape.

[buffy]

Haters will be placed at the bottom of the list.

Did I say hate? No, no. You must have misread me. I would never have said such a callous thing.

[Alicehunter2000]

Bumping this old thread hoping we can get some more info and new pictures.

[Bananengeknl]

Here are My two Lallementti's, fingers crossed for the next few years ! Seeds came from Kelen Soaris!

Number one;

Number two;

[Alicehunter2000]

Olá Alberto,

I don't know about this, I think is same specie. Butia paraguayensis don't has in this local, to me they are 2 different B. lallemanti forms.

That's great that the seeds came from Kelen.....did he say which form it was?

[Alicehunter2000]

Does anyone know where to buy dwarf Butia species?

[buffy]

RPS has seeds pretty consistently now .

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Yea, ill let everyone know which ones NOT to buy. Im awaiting germination on 6 different butia species.  The eriospatha are good, but i cant guarantee the others yet.

[Josh-O]

12 hours ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Does anyone know where to buy dwarf Butia species?

RPS has some odd ball Butia species. I have had little success germinating them though  

 

[Alicehunter2000]

What would it actually take to go down to Brazil and get actual adult plants and bring them back to the U.S? 

How much money do you think it would take?

Is that even possible?

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

If anyone could tell you it would be Grant Stephenson with horticultural consultants. That is his forte.

[Alicehunter2000]

Thanks Joseph, please let us know if your RPS seeds ever germinate. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

So far nada.......

[Scott W]

On 8/16/2010 at 9:13 AM, mjff said:

 

The seed for mine was collected by a US collector (former President of Ventura College, name escapes me, but Phil Bergman knows) in South America if I recall correctly over 20 years ago. There are only 2 in the US that I know of, the other is in CA. From what I can tell it branches underground. I have examined some dead trunks and found them to be attached to the adjacent trunk underground with no roots on the dead trunk. It appears that even at this age it has not flowered yet. I'm hopeful that now that it is established in the ground it will flower soon.

Hey Martin, hopefully you pop on here and can answer ....it's been over a decade since you posted this.... certainly it's flowered by now???

@Alberto, by chance do you have pics of Butia lallemantii seedlings or juvenile plants?

[Scott W]

1 hour ago, Scott W said:

Hey Martin, hopefully you pop on here and can answer ....it's been over a decade since you posted this.... certainly it's flowered by now???

@Alberto, by chance do you have pics of Butia lallemantii seedlings or juvenile plants?

@Alberto or even of the natural hybrid between Lallemantii and Syagrus romanzoffiana?