68 replies to this topic

[bgl]

With reference to the ongoing discussion in the other thread in "Discussing Palm Trees" (Changing face of Palmtalk"), here are some numbers. These are, unfortunately, from Dec 2006 (and were handed out to IPS Directors at the Board meeting in San Francisco in May 2007). I don't have the Dec 2007 info yet, but the discrepancy is probably fairly minor.

Number of IPS members:
Hawaii/Guam: 86
NE USA: 95
NW USA: 36
South Central USA: 136
SE USA: 554
SW USA: 518
Total: 1425
(FL 494 and CA 474)

Other countries:
Australia: 83
France: 41
Spain: 41
Germany: 30
UK: 29
Brazil: 24
Italy: 18
Mexico: 14
South Africa: 11
Canada: 11
Thailand: 10
63 countries have less than 10 members.

Needless to say, these numbers don't necessarily translate to PalmTalk numbers, since a) most IPS members are not PalmTalk members, and you don't even have to be an IPS member to sign up on PalmTalk. But, based on simple observation of activity on PalmTalk, it's probably a very safe assumption to say that the overwhelming number of PalmTalk members live in the USA and/or have English as their native language.

[PiousPalms]

Most of the palms we tend to collect and appreciate aren't from here, I am really surprised by these figures...  I knew there were alot of US members but the scaled is WAY tipped to one side!  Any guesses as to why there are so many less members in other coutries?

[_Wal]

Some figures, member percentage against country population:

USA 0.047%
Australia 0.041%
Brazil 0.001%
France 0.006%


Some thoughts on these figures:

The IPS was founded and fostered in florida USA, so that's fair enough on their percentage, Aussies should get more involved but that doesn't surprise really, Brazil has an enormous population with a majority poor and non english speaking and for France, that is okay really considering the geography and climate there.

[Kim]

It's very interesting to see the facts, thanks Bo.  (I like numbers and statistics.)

[Kris]

i have joined this society in the end of 2007.and i hail from india..i think now there is at least one active memeber from our peninsula which is world 2 largest populated country !

love,
Kris  

[Neofolis]

This in not a great surprise when put into the context of overall population.  When you add to that the fact that the US has a greater percentage of it's citizens connected to the internet, it tips the scales even further.  I know an internet connection is not required to become an IPS member, but, for example, I probably wouldn't even know the IPS existed, if it weren't for the internet and almost certainly wouldn't have become a member without becoming a Palmtalk member first, so the internet presence will obviously have some influence.

[Redland]

At least Florida is still ahead of California!

[Carlo Morici]

Thank you for posting these data.

How is the trend of the past years?

Carlo

[bgl]

Unfortunately, the overall trend has not been a good one. Below is the total number of IPS members at the end of each year:

1996: 3146
1997: 2961
1998: 2728
1999: 2699
2000: 2676
2001: 2606
2002: 2469
2003: 2373
2004: 2169
2005: 2113
2006: 2061
2007: 1962

This is a trend that is shared, apparently, by all plant societies, and part of the reason is probably the emergence of the Internet and the ease of getting information through search engines such as Google, making it less important to belong to an organization in order to get information. We - the IPS - is constantly looking for ways to appeal to potential new members. An improved website (accessible now, but still a long way from a "finished product") and the PalmTalk Forum are two very important vehicles in our continued efforts to reverse the trend of the last 11 years. And we're open for suggestions!

[Neofolis]

I always assumed that there were less young people becoming interested in plants than maybe there had been in the past, which could explain part of the falling membership.  That said, there are quite a few young members of Palmtalk, which I think is really encouraging.  I dare say the membership numbers would  be falling faster without Palmtalk and the other internet presence of IPS, but like you say Bo, availability of information does make it less of a necessity for many people.

[Carlo Morici]

(bgl @ Feb. 08 2008,03:19)

QUOTE

1996: 3146
1997: 2961
1998: 2728
1999: 2699
2000: 2676
2001: 2606
2002: 2469
2003: 2373
2004: 2169
2005: 2113
2006: 2061
2007: 1962[/quote]
This is worse than I expected. It is falling.  

Do something!

VISIT THE PALMETUM IN YOUTUBE: "Palmetum Enero 2009"

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[_Wal]

I think Bo is so right, I would in fact say Bo that the advent of the WWW is entirely the reason for lack of membership to active societies of any kind where knowledge sharing was the key as in palm societies. Once upon a time you would join the palm society to gain and share info on palm growing because that was the only place to do that. Now, you can just turn on your pc, join palmtalk, open up the PACSOA webpage, join another garden forum or two for even more info on soils etc. too easy, don't even have to get out of your chair and you can become an expert.

On the other hand if you want a life, be a human being, meet and greet real people, and see other gardens with other people for real life knowledge sharing, and appreciating and let's throw in making life long friendships, then my sons and daughters, you join a society and go to meetings and you will never look back, there's nothing more fulfilling. Plus you can still join palmtalk to contribute, and that's what I'm saying here, get off you fat lazy bums and pay the $$ and contribute to the planet.

Amen

And now a reading from George Harrison

Why are you still crying?
Your pain is now through
Please forget those teardrops
Let me take them from you

The love you are blessed with
This world's waiting for
So let out your heart, please, please
From behind that locked door

[PALM MOD]

I hope everyone is aware that PalmTalk is not free.

It may be free to you, but it is not free.

If you enjoy it, and would like to see it continue and improve, you need to support the organization that pays for it. By joining the IPS you not only receive the benefits of being a member, you are also helping to support PalmTalk.

[Jeff Searle]

(IPSPTModerator @ Feb. 09 2008,18:51)

QUOTE

I hope everyone is aware that PalmTalk is not free.

It may be free to you, but it is not free.

If you enjoy it, and would like to see it continue and improve, you need to support the organization that pays for it. By joining the IPS you not only receive the benefits of being a member, you are also helping to support PalmTalk.[/quote]
I was away for a few days or I would of most definitely replied right away. Thank-you Mr. Moderator and to you Wal, for very good, well intented points.
Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.
and The Rainforest Collection.
Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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[Tad]

(Redland @ Feb. 07 2008,18:40)

QUOTE

At least Florida is still ahead of California![/quote]
Texas didnt even get a mention?
hmmmm,

Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.
Abraham Lincoln

The way of the transgressor is hard

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[_Keith]

Palmo,

You're back.  Where's the pictures, dude?

[bgl]

Texas: 87  

[bruno]

How I joined IPS: I saw, while in Cochin, India, in the garden of a beautiful hotel a palm with red "necks" (that's how I called a crownshaft at the time!). I took pics of it. Back in France I typed in Google: palmiers, then palms,(Very fortunately, I speak english) and checked the answers.
Quite a few if I remember. IPS and palmtalk seemed the ones for me. I learned how to post the pic and received an answer almost immediately:
"Lipstick palm". Fantastic. I was thrilled and amazed. I also said in the forum that I was going to live in Madagascar, some members told me to keep the info on Mad coming...
Then I met Doc Darian, whom I had never heard of. He told me so many things about palms, making me even more enthousiast about palms.
Palmtalk is a real companion for me, like for many of us; every envening I open it.
To keep it alive, maybe you could add on the first lines of the forum (the discussion one not the page where travelog and all are!) the adress of the spanish  and french forum! Maybe more exchange can come through that. I can speak some spanish too and had the surprise of seeing my name, bruno, on one of the posts about tahina the other day!!!
So let us keep the forum alive. Without it, tahina would have stayed unknown...
long live the net and palmtalk. bruno

[alex_7b]

I AM NOT AN IPS MEMBER

I was from about 1998 for 3 or 4 years. The journal Principes was of little use to me. Highly technical and geared towards botanists and researchers. I can only recall one article (on the torsional response in Phoenix to winds) that was of interest (I'm an engineer). I would enjoy a jounal that showed more landscaping aspects and uses.

As for the geographical distribution of members, it is probably also attributable to free time and money. In the US, there is simply more disposable income to apply towards hobbies.

[bruno]

"siempre dicen la verdad"?! donde estas?

[_Wal]

Is it okay to publish a list of IPS members ? To the IPS home page of course.

[_Keith]

(alex_7b @ Feb. 17 2008,07:51)

QUOTE

I AM NOT AN IPS MEMBER

I was from about 1998 for 3 or 4 years. The journal Principes was of little use to me. Highly technical and geared towards botanists and researchers. I can only recall one article (on the torsional response in Phoenix to winds) that was of interest (I'm an engineer). I would enjoy a jounal that showed more landscaping aspects and uses.

As for the geographical distribution of members, it is probably also attributable to free time and money. In the US, there is simply more disposable income to apply towards hobbies.[/quote]
Having joined only a 4 months ago, I have yet to see a copy of Principes, but I too will be quite disappointed if it is as you describe.  

Regardless, I will stay a member as I know those funds keep this board alive as well.

South Central Louisiana, Coastal Influence
Hardiness Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, Sunset Zone 28
Averages = rainfall 61". Low/H Averages i=January 60/40, July 90/72

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[_Wal]

(keiththibodeaux @ Feb. 22 2008,02:53)

QUOTE

(alex_7b @ Feb. 17 2008,07:51)

QUOTE

I AM NOT AN IPS MEMBER

I was from about 1998 for 3 or 4 years. The journal Principes was of little use to me. Highly technical and geared towards botanists and researchers. I can only recall one article (on the torsional response in Phoenix to winds) that was of interest (I'm an engineer). I would enjoy a jounal that showed more landscaping aspects and uses.

As for the geographical distribution of members, it is probably also attributable to free time and money. In the US, there is simply more disposable income to apply towards hobbies.[/quote]
Having joined only a 4 months ago, I have yet to see a copy of Principes, but I too will be quite disappointed if it is as you describe.  

Regardless, I will stay a member as I know those funds keep this board alive as well.[/quote]
Well said and I'll be patient for a mag too as I've been editor for our society mag before so I'm aware of work involved from volunteers.

Wal
Sth East Queensland,
Australia

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[bgl]

A couple of general comments:

First of all, the name was changed from "Principes" to "Palms" a few years back. It's true that "Principes" had a lot of very scientific articles, and there may still be the occasional one. However, gradually over the last several years there has been a change towards more articles of general and horticultural interest. Every IPS member is not going to find every article in Palms to be of interest, but hopefully there'll be something of interest for everyone in each issue.
One way that any one of you reading this can make a difference is to simply write an article and submit it. The editors, John Dransfiels and Scott Zona, can only publish what's being sent to them. The more general-interest articles they receive, they more they will publish. And articles don't have to be long. Any size (well, almost...) will do.

Wal - an IPS roster with all members used to be published every year. Then, because of the cost we started printing one only every second year. Now, the information will be on the IPS website. I'm going to check on the status of this particular "project".

Bo-Göran

[bgl]

Continued....

All of this will probably get decided and sorted out at the IPS Board Meeting in Costa Rica on May 3rd. The current plan is to make a list of all IPS members available to members-only on the IPS website. The members-only section of the site still has to be implemented, but hopefully we'll be able to make this happen over the next several months (but certainly not before the Biennial).

Bo-Göran

[_Keith]

(bgl @ Feb. 21 2008,15:59)

QUOTE

Continued....

All of this will probably get decided and sorted out at the IPS Board Meeting in Costa Rica on May 3rd. The current plan is to make a list of all IPS members available to members-only on the IPS website. The members-only section of the site still has to be implemented, but hopefully we'll be able to make this happen over the next several months (but certainly not before the Biennial).

Bo-Göran[/quote]
Bo,

With privacy laws being what they are right now, you might consider giving each member a short period of time in which to noify you that they want to opt-out of having their name and/or other information published.    

Just a thought.

South Central Louisiana, Coastal Influence
Hardiness Zone 9a, Heat Zone 8, Sunset Zone 28
Averages = rainfall 61". Low/H Averages i=January 60/40, July 90/72

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[Daryl]

(keiththibodeaux @ Feb. 22 2008,07:14)

QUOTE

With privacy laws being what they are right now, you might consider giving each member a short period of time in which to noify you that they want to opt-out of having their name and/or other information published.    

Just a thought.[/quote]
I think that is already covered in the membership form..you can nominate if you don't want to be included in the membership directory.


Daryl

Gold Coast Hinterland, Queensland 28S
Mild Humid Subtropical climate
Temp Extremes 4C-42C
Rainfall - not consistent enough!

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[weldertom]

I hope everyone is aware that PalmTalk is not free.

It may be free to you, but it is not free.

If you enjoy it, and would like to see it continue and improve, you need to support the organization that pays for it. By joining the IPS you not only receive the benefits of being a member, you are also helping to support PalmTalk.

OK -

I have admitted to not being a member and getting information for free now for a couple of years.( I remember saying that to Jeff Searle once at a Central FL Palm Society gathering in Malabar and feel a little sheepish now....lol)

Incredible hubris on my part.


Suggestion :

I just went to the IPS homepage and looked for the "join IPS" link and I found it a little less prominent than expected.

Perhaps a more prominent JOIN THE IPS HERE  Boxish clicky kind of link ?

Please excuse me if I have spoken out of line or if this has already been addressed.

[bgl]

Adding to my post #9 above, now that we have the year-end numbers for 2008:

1996: 3146
1997: 2961
1998: 2728
1999: 2699
2000: 2676
2001: 2606
2002: 2469
2003: 2373
2004: 2169
2005: 2113
2006: 2061
2007: 1962
2008: 2032

So, we've finally managed to reverse the negative trend, and hopefully this positive development will continue in 2009 and the years beyond. But we depend on all of you to either sign up as IPS members, and/or to recruit more members. This will help support PalmTalk, as well as making it possible to make improvements to www.palms.org

[_Keith]

Adding to my post #9 above, now that we have the year-end numbers for 2008:

1996: 3146
1997: 2961
1998: 2728
1999: 2699
2000: 2676
2001: 2606
2002: 2469
2003: 2373
2004: 2169
2005: 2113
2006: 2061
2007: 1962
2008: 2032

So, we've finally managed to reverse the negative trend, and hopefully this positive development will continue in 2009 and the years beyond. But we depend on all of you to either sign up as IPS members, and/or to recruit more members. This will help support PalmTalk, as well as making it possible to make improvements to www.palms.org

Bravo.

[Jeff in Costa Rica]

Bo, thanks for the update. A lot of new members signed up in 2008, that's great news!

[Jeff Searle]

Thats refreshing to see the turn around on the membership numbers. We were in a gradual decline for many years.

This turn around is due in part to our current leadership IMO.


Jeff

[waykoolplantz]

We are strong...lets exert some Palm Muscle & do some good !!

[DoomsDave]

I hope everyone is aware that PalmTalk is not free.

It may be free to you, but it is not free.

If you enjoy it, and would like to see it continue and improve, you need to support the organization that pays for it. By joining the IPS you not only receive the benefits of being a member, you are also helping to support PalmTalk.

A nice, elegant way to put it!

[DoomsDave]

Hmm. Thinking about it a bit, the idea of combining the IPS with the website was a great idea, and I'm glad you (our Mod) were able to sell it successfully to the board.

One thing that really helped me, was the ability to renew my membership online. I kept forgetting to send the checks in, and I got dropped from the rolls. I suspect other people had the same problem.

Only time will tell if the website's worth it, and I hope it turns out to be.

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

At least Florida is still ahead of California!

Not by much, though.

Paul

[buffy]

I'm an example of a relatively young guy (33 years old) who was attracted to the idea of joining the IPS through this board. I discovered Palmtalk with a simple web search 2 years ago, and the rest is history.

Oh yeah. The final kicker was the discount pricing of becoming an IPS member when purchasing GPII. Great idea.

[Succulentum]

Concerning french people there is a big barrier of language , most of french people over 40 years old don't speak english very well , I am in this case. and also there is the climate : to grow palms other than Trachy, Butia, or Brahea outdoor you must live in the one fourth south of France.
So we have our society "les fous de palmiers" and some stuf : Butyagrus nabonnandii on the front cover on the latest issue of Palm.

jean-bernard

With reference to the ongoing discussion in the other thread in "Discussing Palm Trees" (Changing face of Palmtalk"), here are some numbers. These are, unfortunately, from Dec 2006 (and were handed out to IPS Directors at the Board meeting in San Francisco in May 2007). I don't have the Dec 2007 info yet, but the discrepancy is probably fairly minor.

Number of IPS members:
Hawaii/Guam: 86
NE USA: 95
NW USA: 36
South Central USA: 136
SE USA: 554
SW USA: 518
Total: 1425
(FL 494 and CA 474)

Other countries:
Australia: 83
France: 41
Spain: 41
Germany: 30
UK: 29
Brazil: 24
Italy: 18
Mexico: 14
South Africa: 11
Canada: 11
Thailand: 10
63 countries have less than 10 members.

Needless to say, these numbers don't necessarily translate to PalmTalk numbers, since a) most IPS members are not PalmTalk members, and you don't even have to be an IPS member to sign up on PalmTalk. But, based on simple observation of activity on PalmTalk, it's probably a very safe assumption to say that the overwhelming number of PalmTalk members live in the USA and/or have English as their native language.

[Gbarce]

I also joined because of Palmtalk - at least the desire to join.

The on-line payment system tipped me over to actually joining because it was so easy to do so. I was able to do it while I was on the forum actually.

If I needed to write a check, find stamps, get an envelope and go to the post office to Join I probably wouldn't have gotten off my lazy ass to do it.

I know of at least 2 Filipinos on Palmtalk. I wonder how many IPS members are from the Philippines???

[bgl]

Gene,

There are currently 4 IPS members in the Philippines (and that number includes you!).

Bo-Göran